25 deaths on Dorset roads since April

[rewc]

Article in tonights local paper that says fatal crashes have claimed the lives of 25 people on Dorset roads since last April. The Head of Road Policing in Dorset stressed " The circumstances of each crash were unique and no common factor is to blame".

Given the above statement what is the best strategy for reducing deaths? Dorset Camera Partnership talk about the three E's:- Enforcement, Education and Engineering. Is any one more important than the other?

[justinp1]

Ahh, but the Dorset Safety Camera Partnership proclaims on their website that:

Statistics show lives are saved by cameras.



Hmm, so each and every one of the 25 deaths had a particular specific event which was the reason of the crash?

Probably not best to keep putting up the cameras then is it?

[DennisTheMenace]

I wonder if dorset scamera pratnersip has got rid of the spacky smart car they had with Be Smart SLOW DOWN plastered all over it , and nearly caused a road accident on the A35 after dawdling along at 45 in an NSL decided to indicate and brake very hard at the last minuateto turn off to bloxworth , felt like following it and nudging the little fecker into a ditch , The cretins make up the rules to suit themselves and have done sod all for road saftey .

[heebeegeetee]

Well I’d say there’s a definite link between this story and this one:

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=1&f=10&t=323517&h=0

rewc said:

From last nights local paper it appears that Dorset police are handing out 100 fixed penalties a month to motorists who use their mobile phones whilst driving and intend carrying out more enforcement.
They also said that out of 756 collisions recorded by the Police in the last 12 months only two were caused by the driver using a mobile phone.
Are they not therefore expanding a large amount of effort on something that is the cause of less than 1% of accidents?

The point to note is:

rewc said:

They also said that out of 756 colisions recorded by the Police in the last 12 months only two were caused by the driver using a mobile phone.

One major contributing cause to road deaths these days is that the police and authorities have completely and totally lost the plot, and are concentrating on the easy and most cost effective (ie money raising) minor crimes and neglecting the major issues.

[streaky]

Astounding! No common factor to blame. What? Not even speed? Speed kills you know!

Streaky

[cptsideways]

Being a Doooorset resident I read all about it in the local papers & get to see the bits of hedgerows than MANY drivers seem to use as shortcuts.


My vague view of recent evedidence is young inexperienced drivers on damp wet greasy rural roads killing themsleves with trees on an almost weekly basis. Cars coming off bends & rolling over when they clip the scenery, lots of females I've noticed in the past few weeks. Accidents at main A Road junctions, 2 killed just 2 days ago on the A37 interchange. A lot of accidents are not helped by seriously shit tyres My friend runs an MOT station & I've seen what comes in really poor driving standards, difficult rural roads for the experienced & inexpereinced alike, lots of ice in the winter too.


My wife drives 25miles cross country to work every day & she'll see a car in a hedge or accident of some sort EVERY week without fail.


Just spotted this

Dorset Plod Said
Dorset County Council's Road Safety Team devised an innovative practical driving scheme tailored to the needs of both regular commuters and local residents along the 18 mile A37 corridor between Dorchester and Yeovil. The free "Community Safety Drives" as they were promoted, offered these drivers the opportunity to refresh their driving skills and knowledge for 90 minutes, driving along the route in the company of specially trained driving instructors.

"We were inundated with calls from commuters and local residents wishing to take part in this unique project," says Robert Smith, Dorset County Council's Road Safety Team Leader.

"Evaluation from the first 50 drivers taking part was extremely positive. All participants said they valued the welcome opportunity to brush up on their defensive driving and hazard spotting skills in a non-threatening way.

“We believe this is the first scheme of its kind in the country targeting driver improvement of regular commuters and those in the local communities along a specific route with a serious road casualty history. Other local authorities have now expressed interest in replicating the project in their areas," he added.



www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series3/a37_car_accidents.shtml

Edited by cptsideways on Thursday 23 November 23:30

[cptsideways]

www.thisisdorset.net/display.var.990701.0.boy_11_killed_in_car_crash.php

www.thisisdorset.net/display.var.1032989.0.tragic_loss_of_a_loving_son.php

www.thisisdorset.net/display.var.1030820.0.dad_and_daughter_killed_in_accident.php

www.thisisdorset.net/display.var.1031372.0.motorcyclist_had_no_chance_to_avoid_boy_14.php


Of course £ameras would have saved all their lives

[mojocvh]

Dorset Plod Said
Dorset County Council's Road Safety Team devised an innovative practical driving scheme tailored to the needs of both regular commuters and local residents along the 18 mile A37 corridor between Dorchester and Yeovil. The free "Community Safety Drives" as they were promoted, offered these drivers the opportunity to refresh their driving skills and knowledge for 90 minutes, driving along the route in the company of specially trained driving instructors.

"We were inundated with calls from commuters and local residents wishing to take part in this unique project," says Robert Smith, Dorset County Council's Road Safety Team Leader.

"Evaluation from the first 50 drivers taking part was extremely positive. All participants said they valued the welcome opportunity to brush up on their defensive driving and hazard spotting skills in a non-threatening way.

“We believe this is the first scheme of its kind in the country targeting driver improvement of regular commuters and those in the local communities along a specific route with a serious road casualty history. Other local authorities have now expressed interest in replicating the project in their areas," he added.



What a brilliant idea. I live in Perthshire if this gets offered I'd take it as I'm well aware that driving skills NEED to practised and re-inforced!!

[safespeed]

rewc said:

Article in tonights local paper that says fatal crashes have claimed the lives of 25 people on Dorset roads since last April. The Head of Road Policing in Dorset stressed " The circumstances of each crash were unique and no common factor is to blame".

That's because they aren't looking at the factors properly.

Almost every crash is a 'driver quality' issue.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

safespeed said:

rewc said:

Article in tonights local paper that says fatal crashes have claimed the lives of 25 people on Dorset roads since last April. The Head of Road Policing in Dorset stressed " The circumstances of each crash were unique and no common factor is to blame".

That's because they aren't looking at the factors properly.

Almost every crash is a 'driver quality' issue.

Devils advocate time. Does anyone know how many fatal crashes there were (not lives lost) as I don't think that telling us how mnay people died each year actually tells us whehere the number or fatal crashes has changed. After all one accident could claim either 1 or 2 or 4 or 8 lives. Persnaly I'd rather know the number of actual fatal or serious injury crashes and whether thats going up or down?

Nearly all crashes are driver quality. Too fast for the conditions, failure to anticipate the road, lack of observation etc etc. Problem is its very hard to legislate for driver quality as to roll out extra tuition countrywide would be prohibitively expensive and somone would have to pay for it.

Edited by Mr_annie_vxr on Friday 24th November 20:30

[vim fuego]

cptsideways said:

Being a Doooorset resident I read all about it in the local papers & get to see the bits of hedgerows than MANY drivers seem to use as shortcuts.


My vague view of recent evedidence is young inexperienced drivers on damp wet greasy rural roads killing themsleves with trees on an almost weekly basis. Cars coming off bends & rolling over when they clip the scenery, lots of females I've noticed in the past few weeks. Accidents at main A Road junctions, 2 killed just 2 days ago on the A37 interchange. A lot of accidents are not helped by seriously shit tyres My friend runs an MOT station & I've seen what comes in really poor driving standards, difficult rural roads for the experienced & inexpereinced alike, lots of ice in the winter too.


My wife drives 25miles cross country to work every day & she'll see a car in a hedge or accident of some sort EVERY week without fail.


footnote]

Agree, out yesterday driving along bendy country road to come across the road closed and the police photographing the scene, in the mid-distance was a fiesta after a bend in the trees, following directions of how to get around the closure, went back down the road I’d driven along to find another car, after a bend, in the trees.

[safespeed]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

safespeed said:

rewc said:

Article in tonights local paper that says fatal crashes have claimed the lives of 25 people on Dorset roads since last April. The Head of Road Policing in Dorset stressed " The circumstances of each crash were unique and no common factor is to blame".

That's because they aren't looking at the factors properly.

Almost every crash is a 'driver quality' issue.

Devils advocate time. Does anyone know how many fatal crashes there were (not lives lost) as I don't think that telling us how mnay people died each year actually tells us whehere the number or fatal crashes has changed. After all one accident could claim either 1 or 2 or 4 or 8 lives. Persnaly I'd rather know the number of actual fatal or serious injury crashes and whether thats going up or down?

Nearly all crashes are driver quality. Too fast for the conditions, failure to anticipate the road, lack of observation etc etc. Problem is its very hard to legislate for driver quality as to roll out extra tuition countrywide would be prohibitively expensive and somone would have to pay for it.

This where it's all gone wrong. The real life saving skills are NOT those that we are taught to pass a driving test. They're a largely subconscious amalgam of beliefs and experience. We have to look at where we get our beliefs from and the factors that guide us through gaining experience. The biggies here are culture and information.

So if we're really looking to make things better, we should be looking at these factors. They aren't expensive to manage.

Of course present policy is adversely affecting 'beliefs' and much of the information is false. No wonder things are getting worse.

There are a lot of clues in Steve Haley's excellent book MIND DRIVING. See: www.safespeed.org.uk/minddriving.html

I know I've covered a lot of ground in one short post, but I've done my homework and can answer any questions.

[jasandjules]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

Nearly all crashes are driver quality. Too fast for the conditions, failure to anticipate the road, lack of observation etc etc. Problem is its very hard to legislate for driver quality as to roll out extra tuition countrywide would be prohibitively expensive and somone would have to pay for it.

You are absolutely correct. It is a shame the Govt are indirectly contributing to road accidents and deaths and injuries by suggesting that speed, and speed alone, is the cause of most accidents etc..

It is not too hard to legislate for driver quality, we have Undue Care and Attention etc.. do we not? A few more patrols on the roads, pulling people over and giving them a nice 3 points for MLM behaviour, reckless driving etc.. would surely help? Yes, that will cost tax money, but it is money well spent IMHO.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

jasandjules said:

Mr_annie_vxr said:

Nearly all crashes are driver quality. Too fast for the conditions, failure to anticipate the road, lack of observation etc etc. Problem is its very hard to legislate for driver quality as to roll out extra tuition countrywide would be prohibitively expensive and somone would have to pay for it.

You are absolutely correct. It is a shame the Govt are indirectly contributing to road accidents and deaths and injuries by suggesting that speed, and speed alone, is the cause of most accidents etc..

It is not too hard to legislate for driver quality, we have Undue Care and Attention etc.. do we not? A few more patrols on the roads, pulling people over and giving them a nice 3 points for MLM behaviour, reckless driving etc.. would surely help? Yes, that will cost tax money, but it is money well spent IMHO.

The problem is they are most often 'after the event' prosecutions. Even increasing the Traffic patrols by the same again would see in my county 20 cars on the road. The problem is as much as speed cameras are bad they do hit part of the crash equation (the energy involved) in the same way NCAP is now a big thing and legislated for, that mobie phone use (agreed by most to reduce driver standards) is legislated against, seat belt legislation, red light cameras.. I know its not perfect (far from it) but those measures don't cost us the tax payers anything and most people want to pay less not more tax.

There is no easy cheap answer.

I personaly would like to see compulsory re-testing every 5 or 10 years and different grades of grades of licence that allow different power vehicles as well as other things built in, say requirement to do the AIM test and some track / skid pan work. The problem is cost.

[james_j]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

...I personaly would like to see compulsory re-testing every 5 or 10 years and different grades of grades of licence that allow different power vehicles as well as other things built in, say requirement to do the AIM test and some track / skid pan work. The problem is cost.

Is there any evidence to show drivers of more powerful vehicles crash more often? If not, what would be the point of the (probably) "gut feel" desire to restrict the power of vehicles which one may drive?

[cptsideways]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

The problem is cost.

Ahh but if it means safer roads then the cost is surely negated, lots of jobs created in the driver training industry too.

I for one would not mind paying £150 every 5 years for re-test if it meant I was allowed to drive performance cars & there were fewer numpties on the road.

The government would love it too as it'd mean an awfull lot of drivers would be put on public transport



It should be called......

Bus Pass or Advanced Pass you decide

[Mr_annie_vxr]

james_j said:

Mr_annie_vxr said:

...I personaly would like to see compulsory re-testing every 5 or 10 years and different grades of grades of licence that allow different power vehicles as well as other things built in, say requirement to do the AIM test and some track / skid pan work. The problem is cost.

Is there any evidence to show drivers of more powerful vehicles crash more often? If not, what would be the point of the (probably) "gut feel" desire to restrict the power of vehicles which one may drive?

Based on experience. When I was younger and had only just secured my licence I was bombing around in a 1.6 when looking back I would have been better to have gained some experience in a vehicle that was not so easy to over cook. I also see people every day driving vehicles that are all turbo'd up throwing them around driving badly and they are relying on the car compared to their own skills to keep them on the road. I have also attended accidents where the clear cause has been to much power not enough experience. Its not about restrictions on age but on doing a more advanced test involving some IAM and track work so that they have a better understanding of the way a more powerfull car can and will perform. I'm not even suggesting there would have to be a minimum period between the two just a higher level of licence. That would also have a knock on benefit to car insurance premiums.

This works for motorbikes so why not cars?

I have no issues paying and I'm sure most on here would like to see re-tests but I have my doubts about whether or not the vote making general public would care.

[turbobloke]

The Dorsetpol idea of safety drives (education) is a good one.

Over here in tractor territory we had a lot of fatacs in the Forest of Dean last year and all Glospol and the scammers could do after the first two or three was witter on about speed. After it got well into double figures they kept the claptrap factor high, but the tactics have changed a bit recently. Maybe even the thickest of the propagandised thick get the message eventually.

[mechsympathy]

safespeed said:

This where it's all gone wrong. The real life saving skills are NOT those that we are taught to pass a driving test. They're a largely subconscious amalgam of beliefs and experience. We have to look at where we get our beliefs from and the factors that guide us through gaining experience. The biggies here are culture and information.

The problem comes after people have passed, from then on they learn from their peers and (optimistically) their mistakes. This is why we are in a spiral of worsening driver skill, which isn't being helped by nanny actively encouraging people not to think about what they're doing.

Enthusiasts are more likely to seek out the information and quality experience they need, But the majority simply grumble about everyone else's driving, rather than looking at their own shortcomings.

[spnracing]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

Nearly all crashes are driver quality.

Nearly all?

Driver quality encompasses a wide area of skills, one of which is to choose an appropriate speed and have some respect for the laws of the road. A good driver also doesn't whinge when those laws are enforced.

jasandjules said:

It is a shame the Govt are indirectly contributing to road accidents and deaths and injuries by suggesting that speed, and speed alone, is the cause of most accidents

Oh really. Perhaps you'd like to expand on which parts of the DfTs campaign give you this impression?

www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_504644.hcsp