Monthly targets set for Police - Is it fair or right?
Discussion
Hi Tony - long time no see 
It's never good - it's all part of the government obsession with targets and figures, and of course it takes away discretion (see thousands of previous threads!). Hundreds of bean counters will be sitting somewhere getting paid by tax payers' money to count these figures and produce spin
It's never good - it's all part of the government obsession with targets and figures, and of course it takes away discretion (see thousands of previous threads!). Hundreds of bean counters will be sitting somewhere getting paid by tax payers' money to count these figures and produce spin
It seems every time you log on it's a long time no see
There are some jobs / functions where 'performance' cannot be quantified by attainment of targets - IMO policing is one of them.
Do away with targets and speed cameras and let the BiB have a freer hand to do their job properly rather than performing tasks just to hit a performance level.
Do away with targets and speed cameras and let the BiB have a freer hand to do their job properly rather than performing tasks just to hit a performance level.
puggit said:
Hi Tony - long time no see
It's never good - it's all part of the government obsession with targets and figures, and of course it takes away discretion (see thousands of previous threads!). Hundreds of bean counters will be sitting somewhere getting paid by tax payers' money to count these figures and produce spin
It's never good - it's all part of the government obsession with targets and figures, and of course it takes away discretion (see thousands of previous threads!). Hundreds of bean counters will be sitting somewhere getting paid by tax payers' money to count these figures and produce spin
It seems every time you log on it's a long time no see
You are right on both counts.......time does goe very quickly nowadays.
By Their definition you Cannot quantify service industries and the Police, NHS and Fire service are the ultimate in these. But since the advent of Lotus 1-2-3 and Excel trying to tell that to obsessed Bean counter's only works when we in IT take their toys away!
Edited by telecat on Thursday 23 November 17:32
Tonyrec said:
What do you think about Police Officers being set targets to achieve every month?
Say for arrests, process etc etc or would you be satisfied that they produce a good days work whether it be arresting people, processing people or for just doing their job?
Say for arrests, process etc etc or would you be satisfied that they produce a good days work whether it be arresting people, processing people or for just doing their job?
Completely wrong.
Every work study around shows that if the target is effective then this consciously and subconsciously changes the employees attitude and the way they work.
For example, some will look for an easy way to meet their target, to the detriment to the rest of their work.
For example if catching someone doing 80 on the motorway gets 1 point and 10 mins to process, and catching a drunk driver leaving the scene of an accident is worth 5 points, but may take up 3-4 days to process in paperwork, and court time, this makes a difficult decision for the PC to make. The powers that be are pressing the PC to get 5 quick points and get 5 more.
The whole point of targets is so that people and supervisors can compare themselves to eachother. The second point would be to introduce performance related pay.
Both of these are strong incentive for emplyees to do whatever it takes to get the most points possible, which may not be doing the best job for the good of the Force and the public.
Each force does things in a different way. I think it depends how you set those targets. For example an increase in detections of burglaries or an improvement in conviction rate of offenders are I think positive moves. I personaly think you do have to measure what people are doing to an extent so that those amongst the police (and there are some I know) who are lazy and ineffective can be dealt with. In my experience though its not right to force a certain number of arrests or some such as that takes away discretion from officers. I think forces do need some performance aims (not targets).
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Each force does things in a different way. I think it depends how you set those targets. For example an increase in detections of burglaries or an improvement in conviction rate of offenders are I think positive moves. I personaly think you do have to measure what people are doing to an extent so that those amongst the police (and there are some I know) who are lazy and ineffective can be dealt with. In my experience though its not right to force a certain number of arrests or some such as that takes away discretion from officers. I think forces do need some performance aims (not targets).
I would agree and add that there is a world of difference between targets and targeting resources to counter a spate of distraction burglaries etc
If that makes sense
Personally I'm against the use of targets because I think they discourage proactive policing. They encourage making arrests after a crime, instead of trying to stop the crime happening in the first place - as this can't be shown in a league table.
Edited by cliffe_mafia on Thursday 23 November 18:11
It's indefensible.
Look at the NHS farce, in which A&E patients are kept in ambulances in a car park, rather than being admitted, so that the hospital's average time-until-examination can be held down. Other patients who are effectively thrown out of hospital before they're well, so that new patients can take their place and waiting times be nominally shortened.
Let police professionals decide who ought to be apprehended, why and when.
Reliance on numbers distorts natural behaviour and makes a mockery of common sense.
It's the same as when a government hires an outside, for-profit business to run a public function that requires maturity, reasoned judgment and fairness - all those requirements are trampled over in pursuit of self-interest.
Bailiffs who get their facts wrong and threaten and intimidate innocent people? Meter maids who falsify their records in order to get their numbers up? Buffoons who tear up the roads in order to lay down yet another superfluous run of optical cable?
It's not acceptable, although it's entirely predictable for a Government whose policies are based on spin, sleight-of-hand and populist cant.
Look at the NHS farce, in which A&E patients are kept in ambulances in a car park, rather than being admitted, so that the hospital's average time-until-examination can be held down. Other patients who are effectively thrown out of hospital before they're well, so that new patients can take their place and waiting times be nominally shortened.
Let police professionals decide who ought to be apprehended, why and when.
Reliance on numbers distorts natural behaviour and makes a mockery of common sense.
It's the same as when a government hires an outside, for-profit business to run a public function that requires maturity, reasoned judgment and fairness - all those requirements are trampled over in pursuit of self-interest.
Bailiffs who get their facts wrong and threaten and intimidate innocent people? Meter maids who falsify their records in order to get their numbers up? Buffoons who tear up the roads in order to lay down yet another superfluous run of optical cable?
It's not acceptable, although it's entirely predictable for a Government whose policies are based on spin, sleight-of-hand and populist cant.
I thought the targets were set so low (one FPN per day) that frankly the only people not achieving them were genuinely lazy...
Of course there are objectives that people have. They are either explicit and measured or they are not. The discussion is not about whether having objectives is a good thing -- it's about what they are.
Of course there are objectives that people have. They are either explicit and measured or they are not. The discussion is not about whether having objectives is a good thing -- it's about what they are.
Speaking as being one who has performance awareness rather than set targets and it having given me the evidence to kick a lazy officer in the arse I do see the use they can have but they are not the be all and end all. Its not possible to measure how effective your night duty activities were as you never get a report on what crimes were due to happen last night. Many things that we do cannot be measured with spreadsheets.
I also know how they can be played and I for one do not agree with saying to an officer you shall make four arrests as that will impact upon discretion.
I also know how they can be played and I for one do not agree with saying to an officer you shall make four arrests as that will impact upon discretion.
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