Discussion
Last week - senior policeman said that heroin should be provided on NHS to addicts as "this will cut crime.. muggings und so on by which they fund their habits"
This morning - News report on BBC say that latest research say the thrill of the violent act ist really why they do it .. with one addict saying "he was more addicted to the pleasure und thrill of the violence than he was to the drug itself"
Hmmm! £15K (hmmm... I think someone got sums wrong a bit there) to provide heroin to those they know about (whilst Alzheimers sufferers are denied drugs at fraction of that price
) .. und all the time they forget the blinking obvious
they do the crime because they actually like it und thus are dangerous because of actual und vicarious enjoyment und should really be behind bars for our protection
Per the research.. reported by BBC ....
How about a bit of good old discipline, teaching a few manners from babyhood, und proper hobbies .... und forgetting the pee-cee nonense
This morning - News report on BBC say that latest research say the thrill of the violent act ist really why they do it .. with one addict saying "he was more addicted to the pleasure und thrill of the violence than he was to the drug itself"
Hmmm! £15K (hmmm... I think someone got sums wrong a bit there) to provide heroin to those they know about (whilst Alzheimers sufferers are denied drugs at fraction of that price
) .. und all the time they forget the blinking obvious they do the crime because they actually like it und thus are dangerous because of actual und vicarious enjoyment und should really be behind bars for our protection
Per the research.. reported by BBC ....
How about a bit of good old discipline, teaching a few manners from babyhood, und proper hobbies .... und forgetting the pee-cee nonense
WildCat said:
How about a bit of good old discipline, teaching a few manners from babyhood, und proper hobbies .... und forgetting the pee-cee nonense
WELL SAID, a damn good kicking, then give them a single dose of their drug (I believe it's called the golden shot!?) endof....
Result we don't pay for wasters and we don't fill our prisons and educate them more on crime, just fill the crems and graveyards with waste!
If they want adrenalin perhaps some unaided basejumping could be arranged?I say give them the drugs
the opiates are penny's to make
who cares if these tossers want to live in a dream world
Make sure they do not drive ,do a job ,or otherwise interact with society
Take the reason for crime away and the crime vanishes
you would then have to buy the crop from afghanistan ,give the farmers a decent price ,drive the taliban out
So one policy has two benifits ...cant see the downside myself
the opiates are penny's to make
who cares if these tossers want to live in a dream world
Make sure they do not drive ,do a job ,or otherwise interact with society
Take the reason for crime away and the crime vanishes
you would then have to buy the crop from afghanistan ,give the farmers a decent price ,drive the taliban out
So one policy has two benifits ...cant see the downside myself
Did anyone else see the excellent documentary "Phoney War" that was aired back in 2001 Several Chief Constables (some wouldn't be identified, but 2 did appear on the program) were saying the same thing, give out free heroin. The police are losing the battle against the drug trade in the U.K., there is no doubt about that. The cost to society of having a "junkie" loss on the streets is massive. Everytime he/she breaks into a shed, garage, house, vehicle etc. or mugs someone, the cost in time to the Police is huge, then of course you have the insurance costs, cost of time for the victim & in the worst scenario cost of injuries or death.
The Police catch a dealer & within a very short time another takes his place.
Give out free herion & the related crimes will all but cease & importantly the dealers will have no clients.
Imo it makes perfect sense, not politically maybe, but in the real world.
I have a garage in a block of 7. The same "junkie scrote" broke or tried to break into all of them over a period of a few months. He was finally caught doing so & served a short sentence. Thing is, he never actually nicked anything of any value or significant loss to the owner, but the aggro caused by having to repair/replace garage doors, add extra locks etc., was massive in time wasted, insurance calims, money spent etc. He died from an overdose about a year ago (shame!!) & petty crime has vastly reduced in the area
Not sure how it would work with crack or crystal meth. addicts, but hopefully they would all be so smacked out on the free herion, these drugs would become less widespread.
Will any govt. ever have the balls to do this?
The Police catch a dealer & within a very short time another takes his place.
Give out free herion & the related crimes will all but cease & importantly the dealers will have no clients.
Imo it makes perfect sense, not politically maybe, but in the real world.
I have a garage in a block of 7. The same "junkie scrote" broke or tried to break into all of them over a period of a few months. He was finally caught doing so & served a short sentence. Thing is, he never actually nicked anything of any value or significant loss to the owner, but the aggro caused by having to repair/replace garage doors, add extra locks etc., was massive in time wasted, insurance calims, money spent etc. He died from an overdose about a year ago (shame!!) & petty crime has vastly reduced in the area
Not sure how it would work with crack or crystal meth. addicts, but hopefully they would all be so smacked out on the free herion, these drugs would become less widespread.
Will any govt. ever have the balls to do this?
Edited by A57 HSV on Wednesday 29th November 15:46
A57 HSV said:
The police are losing the battle against the drug trade in the U.K., there is no doubt about that. The cost to society of having a "junkie" loss on the streets is massive. Everytime he/she breaks into a shed, garage, house, vehicle etc. or mugs someone, the cost in time to the Police is huge, then of course you have the insurance costs, cost of time for the victim & in the worst scenario cost of injuries or death.
The Police catch a dealer & within a very short time another takes his place.
Give out free herion & the related crimes will all but cease & importantly the dealers will have no clients.
Imo it makes perfect sense, not politically maybe, but in the real world.
..........
Will any govt. ever have the balls to do this?
The Police catch a dealer & within a very short time another takes his place.
Give out free herion & the related crimes will all but cease & importantly the dealers will have no clients.
Imo it makes perfect sense, not politically maybe, but in the real world.
..........
Will any govt. ever have the balls to do this?
I hope not!
In the short term, free heroine could seem like a good idea, but what about the long term? How does this encourage other otherwise law-abiding members of society to steer clear from such addictive/antisocial/harmful activities?
There’s a difference between losing a battle and an open invitation for invaders.
The ‘torture’ of enforced ‘cold turkey’ treatments (short detentions) for any criminal seems utterly fair to me. It cures their habit, is a deterrence (against crime and hard drug use), costs taxpayers a lot less – the best of all worlds!
jasandjules said:
What is the cost of 9mm bullets for each person who is caught 3 times? And has failed a DTTO?
Probably more (assuming that if they are caught 3 times, they will have committed at least 3 crimes & probably many more) than giving them free heroin!
I'd quite happily go "junkie" hunting, I think my dog would enjoy it as well, but in reality until govts. learn to communicate & stop the production of herion, giving it out for free seems the best solution.
It was only in the 1970's that GP's stopped giving morphine injections to addicts, mainly World War 2 veterans who had been badly injured & stuffed full of morphine. These poor souls led a fairly normal life, just stopped off to & from work for a free jab.
Edited by A57 HSV on Wednesday 29th November 16:49
[quote=smeggy
I hope not!
In the short term, free heroine could seem like a good idea, but what about the long term? How does this encourage other otherwise law-abiding members of society to steer clear from such addictive/antisocial/harmful activities?
There’s a difference between losing a battle and an open invitation for invaders.
The ‘torture’ of enforced ‘cold turkey’ treatments (short detentions) for any criminal seems utterly fair to me. It cures their habit, is a deterrence (against crime and hard drug use), costs taxpayers a lot less – the best of all worlds!
[/quote]
I think you'll find the cost of keeping a "junkie" in prison whilst they "cold turkey" is very costly.
Then he/she gets released from prison, goes back to where they came from, stumbles across the herion dealer, vicious circle starts all over again. Sadly, exactly what happens in almost all cases.
I hope not!
In the short term, free heroine could seem like a good idea, but what about the long term? How does this encourage other otherwise law-abiding members of society to steer clear from such addictive/antisocial/harmful activities?
There’s a difference between losing a battle and an open invitation for invaders.
The ‘torture’ of enforced ‘cold turkey’ treatments (short detentions) for any criminal seems utterly fair to me. It cures their habit, is a deterrence (against crime and hard drug use), costs taxpayers a lot less – the best of all worlds!
[/quote]
I think you'll find the cost of keeping a "junkie" in prison whilst they "cold turkey" is very costly.
Then he/she gets released from prison, goes back to where they came from, stumbles across the herion dealer, vicious circle starts all over again. Sadly, exactly what happens in almost all cases.
A57 HSV said:
I think you'll find the cost of keeping a "junkie" in prison whilst they "cold turkey" is very costly.
Then he/she gets released from prison, goes back to where they came from, stumbles across the herion dealer, vicious circle starts all over again. Sadly, exactly what happens in almost all cases.
Then he/she gets released from prison, goes back to where they came from, stumbles across the herion dealer, vicious circle starts all over again. Sadly, exactly what happens in almost all cases.
£15k for a treatment (source: Wildcat - BBC), so a continuous treatment should be more expensive.
£20k per prisoner per annum (and that’s only because they are relatively ‘pampered’, put me in charge and I’ll bang that down to about 20 quid and make prison something to really fear).
herewego said:
I don't think you'd have to make it available for free. It's only expensive because it's illegal. De-criminalising it would be enough. However I'm not advocating this. If it's addictive, we'd have a lot more addicts.
Exactly, it needs to be given out free to existing "junkies" in a strictly controlled way. Thus stopping most of the dealers trade, why would any existing "junkie" want to buy it from a dealer, if they could get it for free in a safe & clean environment? No dealers = no herion on the streets = vast reduction in addicts.
De-criminalising it could just add to the amount of addicts.
A57 HSV said:
Exactly, it needs to be given out free to existing "junkies" in a strictly controlled way. Thus stopping most of the dealers trade, why would any existing "junkie" want to buy it from a dealer……...
Sorry no, that doesn’t work!
You assume real junkies are reasonable. If their access is controlled then you leave room for dealers to provide what has been taken away from them.
Dealers for other drugs (crack etc.) is another issue, but if existing heroin users were kept happy with free heroin, I believe that the majority of them would be "smacked out for free" & wouldn't bother to spend money with dealers.
I'm open to all ideas but so far the alternatives on this thread have been death by shooting, decriminalising & cold turkey in the a prison similar to the Black Hole of Calcutta!
Most rational thinking people listening to what the Police & social workers had to say on the documentary that I mention would have been convinced, that however unpopular etc. their view that there is currently no better option other than free heroin (actually diamorphine I believe) given under controlled conditions, is correct.
Unlikely to happen though, as there are too many right wing voters in the U.K, so the battle against drugs will continue at huge cost to society. A battle that the Police have admitted for years now, will never be won. Sad.
I'm open to all ideas but so far the alternatives on this thread have been death by shooting, decriminalising & cold turkey in the a prison similar to the Black Hole of Calcutta!
Most rational thinking people listening to what the Police & social workers had to say on the documentary that I mention would have been convinced, that however unpopular etc. their view that there is currently no better option other than free heroin (actually diamorphine I believe) given under controlled conditions, is correct.
Unlikely to happen though, as there are too many right wing voters in the U.K, so the battle against drugs will continue at huge cost to society. A battle that the Police have admitted for years now, will never be won. Sad.
A57 HSV said:
Dealers for other drugs (crack etc.) is another issue
It IS the issue
A57 HSV said:
but if existing heroin users were kept happy with free heroin, I believe that the majority of them would be "smacked out for free" & wouldn't bother to spend money with dealers.
You might be right; however, I believe that people who otherwise wouldn’t have taken drugs would be tempted enough to do it if ‘free’ drugs were offered – not a problem if the drugs truly were ‘free’ but they are not, not at any level.
A57 HSV said:
Unlikely to happen though, as there are too many right wing voters in the U.K, so the battle against drugs will continue at huge cost to society. A battle that the Police have admitted for years now, will never be won. Sad.
There are too many people who don’t think things through (the left wing voters ....and the addicts....
) who subsequently don’t want to fight, that’s why we are losing! Why make it free? The true cost is low so if it were made legal then the price would plumet to a level where much less (if any) theft would be necessary to buy the stuff. Making if free is asking for trouble. Daft example: give out carrier bags free and see how many are used; charge 1p each and the number used plumets...
Rob
Rob
Rob_the_Sparky said:
Why make it free? The true cost is low so if it were made legal then the price would plumet to a level where much less (if any) theft would be necessary to buy the stuff. Making if free is asking for trouble. Daft example: give out carrier bags free and see how many are used; charge 1p each and the number used plumets...
Rob
Rob
The point seems to be to give it to known addicts to remove their incentive to steal. It is not proposed to make it free, or freely available, to everybody, only to known addicts.
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