VOSA stupidiy stright from the horese mouth.
Discussion
Hores and Hounds said:
Owners of horseboxes heavier than 3.5 tonnes who win competition prize-money but do not have an operator's licence for their vehicle run the risk of being fined, having their vehicles impounded, and facing prosecution, according to the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA).
Even if winnings amount only to £5, this is the likely scenario if the owner/driver is found guilty in court of undertaking an activity that may be construed as "hire and reward" without the special licence, says VOSA, a subsidiary of the Department of Transport.
Likewise, if the horsebox owner offers a friend a lift — to anything from a competition to a ride on the beach — in return for petrol money or any other reward, VOSA says an operator's licence is required.
H&H reader Mark Batchelor says he will stop accepting prize-money at shows after VOSA contacted him to inquire whether he was operating his HGV for hire and reward.
"I wrote back to VOSA explaining that I only use the horsebox to take my wife and daughter's horses to local shows and that I did occasionally move a horse for a friend, but for no more than the cost of the fuel," Mr Batchelor explained.
"I received a letter from VOSA informing me that the moment you receive prize-money or fuel money, you need an operator's licence. As such, I have no option but to stop competing for money.
"How many private horsebox owners are in breach of the law? It does not seem to matter whether it has cost you £100 to attend a show and pay entries — the moment you win £5 you are in breach of the law."
A VOSA spokesman explained to H&H that it is the job of a court to rule on whether "hire and reward" is taking place, or whether a vehicle is being used in connection with a trade or business.
But he said: "When prize-money is awarded to someone in the operation of a horsebox with a gross plated weight of more than 3.5 tonnes, this may well be construed as commercial activity.
"If competition prize-money is considered 'reward', for the purpose of deciding if a vehicle is being used for hire and reward and thus requires an operator's licence, the amount is irrelevant."
VOSA also concludes that people with horseboxes transporting other people's horses as well as their own for "fuel money" translates to "hire".
But British Horse Society (BHS) chief executive Graham Cory doubts the validity of VOSA's claim.
"VOSA's view confuses purpose with incidental outcome. As only a minority of competitors will receive a prize, it cannot reasonably be held that they are acting in anticipation of a reward," he said.
Even if winnings amount only to £5, this is the likely scenario if the owner/driver is found guilty in court of undertaking an activity that may be construed as "hire and reward" without the special licence, says VOSA, a subsidiary of the Department of Transport.
Likewise, if the horsebox owner offers a friend a lift — to anything from a competition to a ride on the beach — in return for petrol money or any other reward, VOSA says an operator's licence is required.
H&H reader Mark Batchelor says he will stop accepting prize-money at shows after VOSA contacted him to inquire whether he was operating his HGV for hire and reward.
"I wrote back to VOSA explaining that I only use the horsebox to take my wife and daughter's horses to local shows and that I did occasionally move a horse for a friend, but for no more than the cost of the fuel," Mr Batchelor explained.
"I received a letter from VOSA informing me that the moment you receive prize-money or fuel money, you need an operator's licence. As such, I have no option but to stop competing for money.
"How many private horsebox owners are in breach of the law? It does not seem to matter whether it has cost you £100 to attend a show and pay entries — the moment you win £5 you are in breach of the law."
A VOSA spokesman explained to H&H that it is the job of a court to rule on whether "hire and reward" is taking place, or whether a vehicle is being used in connection with a trade or business.
But he said: "When prize-money is awarded to someone in the operation of a horsebox with a gross plated weight of more than 3.5 tonnes, this may well be construed as commercial activity.
"If competition prize-money is considered 'reward', for the purpose of deciding if a vehicle is being used for hire and reward and thus requires an operator's licence, the amount is irrelevant."
VOSA also concludes that people with horseboxes transporting other people's horses as well as their own for "fuel money" translates to "hire".
But British Horse Society (BHS) chief executive Graham Cory doubts the validity of VOSA's claim.
"VOSA's view confuses purpose with incidental outcome. As only a minority of competitors will receive a prize, it cannot reasonably be held that they are acting in anticipation of a reward," he said.
Edited by c c on Wednesday 29th November 10:28
christ what will the jobsworths think of next!!! 
If he drives his daughter and her horse to a show and she wins, how is that his reward? If I give a friend a lift and he gives me money towards petrol dos that make me an unlicensed minicab driver? Where's that wnaker smiley when you need itIf he takes his child to a show and she wins the prize money and keeps it then no problem. "He" is not operating a vehicle for hire or reward. If he rides himself, wins and he gets the money, or if he gets the prize money from the child, then they say they have a case.
Being in trouble for accepting petrol money was always a problem for any vehicle (are you a licensed taxi?) until there was a law change (Ithink) a few years back to encourage pool sharing to cut congestion.
Being in trouble for accepting petrol money was always a problem for any vehicle (are you a licensed taxi?) until there was a law change (Ithink) a few years back to encourage pool sharing to cut congestion.
think so.
eccles said:
i think its good news!....gets more of these bloody horse boxes off the road!
I often wonder if they only make horseboxes with tiny engines, as every one I get stuck behind seems incapable of maintaining 25mph up even the slightest incline.
It would be quicker to ride the bloody horse.
It would thus seem that if you transport your competition car in a converted coach or on a flatbed with a GVW of over 3.5 tonnes and you win cash, then the same must apply.
I do remember when I had my Private Pilot's licence that flying fot 'Hire & Reward' was outside the scope of the licence. I sometimes used to fly a photographer around and I did it just to get some more hours in whilst he took his photos. The way we worked it was that he paid the Flying Club for a certain number of hours in advance, then I flew him for free. Thus the rules were complied with. This sort of thing is nothing new.The way forward is for the award winner to openly donate the prize money to someone else - a child or spouse or a charity? - and thus the winner has actually received nothing at all.
I do remember when I had my Private Pilot's licence that flying fot 'Hire & Reward' was outside the scope of the licence. I sometimes used to fly a photographer around and I did it just to get some more hours in whilst he took his photos. The way we worked it was that he paid the Flying Club for a certain number of hours in advance, then I flew him for free. Thus the rules were complied with. This sort of thing is nothing new.The way forward is for the award winner to openly donate the prize money to someone else - a child or spouse or a charity? - and thus the winner has actually received nothing at all.
Hmmmmmm
Is eco-friendly car sharing going to go down the same route?
If you share a car with mates or just give them a lift for "petrol money" will that be looked on as hire?
The mind boggles.
But then.... these beurocrats have nothing to do all day but think up ways of getting ££££££ for Gordy.
Shouldnt they be doing their jobs more efficiently and thus we wont see poor service and efficiancy increases/
Ooops - this is Civil Service we are discussing her.
My fault for being stupid(=cynical).
The continued lack of efficiency and good practices in Civil Service is a disgrace and here they go making it worse.
Introduce more crap and forget about improving what they should be doing.
Is eco-friendly car sharing going to go down the same route?
If you share a car with mates or just give them a lift for "petrol money" will that be looked on as hire?
The mind boggles.
But then.... these beurocrats have nothing to do all day but think up ways of getting ££££££ for Gordy.
Shouldnt they be doing their jobs more efficiently and thus we wont see poor service and efficiancy increases/
Ooops - this is Civil Service we are discussing her.
My fault for being stupid(=cynical).
The continued lack of efficiency and good practices in Civil Service is a disgrace and here they go making it worse.
Introduce more crap and forget about improving what they should be doing.
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