A40 Pencraig towards Ross-on-Wye

[alt]

Don't know if any of you know the A40 approaching Ross-on-Wye but it's a dual-carriageway with no roundabouts all the way from Monmouth. NSL applies except for a mile or so at Pencraig/Goodrich which was dropped to 50mph a few years ago. This 50mph has one exit and a gap in the barrier to allow cars to cross which probably "justifies" the lower limit.

So on Sunday returning to the Midlands following the All Blacks' hammering of Wales I reduced my speed when entering the 50mph zone. As I was passing a HGV I noticed the van parked on the left. Today I've received a NIP requesting £60 stating I was driving at 58mph. Fifty-bloody-eight!

Now I know that I was in the wrong but what pisses me off is that as the conditions were excellent and I was in the process of passing a HGV. I don't believe a police patrol car would have prosecuted me. And to make matters worse they include a leaflet titled "Your questions answered".

Sorry, just venting my frustration. Feel free to tell me it's my own fault or preferably to sympathise...

[justinp1]

I'm a child.

At 40mph there is an 80% chance I will die.

At 30mph there is an 80% chance I will live.

At 58mph I'm f****d.

Think of me next time you bad man. (And the fact that my school may have been moved overnight to that camera site, I may be at school on Saturday and I may have been trying to cross that dual carriageway...)

I hope next time you will be looking at your speedo, and not getting sidetracked by looking out for me!

Edited by justinp1 on Thursday 30th November 11:39

[Mr_annie_vxr]

Your probably right a police patrol wouldn't have.. most likely they'd have followed you round or overtaken both of you. I'd consider fighting it.

[rs1952]

alt said:

So on Sunday returning to the Midlands following the All Blacks' hammering of Wales I reduced my speed when entering the 50mph zone. As I was passing a HGV I noticed the van parked on the left. Today I've received a NIP requesting £60 stating I was driving at 58mph. Fifty-bloody-eight!

Now I know that I was in the wrong but what pisses me off is that as the conditions were excellent and I was in the process of passing a HGV. I don't believe a police patrol car would have prosecuted me. And to make matters worse they include a leaflet titled "Your questions answered".

Sorry, just venting my frustration. Feel free to tell me it's my own fault or preferably to sympathise...

But, of course, this is the very sort of behaviour that pisses everybody off, and why the whole scamera regime is in danger of alientating the public from the police. Some examples follow:

My son being pinged at 69mph in a 50 limit at 7am on New Years morning on a (hardly surprisingly) empty road

South Wales scamera barstewards pinging my car at 81 on a NSL dual carriageway on a very quiet Saturday morning, with hardly any other traffic about, in perfect visibility, at the bottom of a hill

Of course, if you get mugged or burgled, nobody gives a toss ...

[alt]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

Your probably right a police patrol wouldn't have.. most likely they'd have followed you round or overtaken both of you. I'd consider fighting it.

Thanks Steve. When you say "fight it" do you mean go to court? At the end of the day I know that I was in the wrong so what would my defence be?
Cheers.... Andrew

[Mr_annie_vxr]

alt said:

Mr_annie_vxr said:

Your probably right a police patrol wouldn't have.. most likely they'd have followed you round or overtaken both of you. I'd consider fighting it.

Thanks Steve. When you say "fight it" do you mean go to court? At the end of the day I know that I was in the wrong so what would my defence be?
Cheers.... Andrew

My view would be that you were carrying out an overtake of a vehicle travelling below the speed limit (it can't have been that close or at 8mph speed difference you would have been overtaking very slowly) and to ensure you carried out the manouvre safely you exceeded the limit momentarily to avoid the hazard. I'm not an expert on this though, Justinp1 is and so is pepipoo I think. I just know that if you asked me and I could i'd cancel the ticket in the circumstances outlined above.

[alt]

Thanks Steve.

Not sure I'd like to hear what Justinp1 has to say as after reading his previous post I reckon he'll be preparing the gallows!

[justinp1]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

alt said:

Mr_annie_vxr said:

Your probably right a police patrol wouldn't have.. most likely they'd have followed you round or overtaken both of you. I'd consider fighting it.

Thanks Steve. When you say "fight it" do you mean go to court? At the end of the day I know that I was in the wrong so what would my defence be?
Cheers.... Andrew

My view would be that you were carrying out an overtake of a vehicle travelling below the speed limit (it can't have been that close or at 8mph speed difference you would have been overtaking very slowly) and to ensure you carried out the manouvre safely you exceeded the limit momentarily to avoid the hazard. I'm not an expert on this though, Justinp1 is and so is pepipoo I think. I just know that if you asked me and I could i'd cancel the ticket in the circumstances outlined above.

Wow, I am regarded as an expert! Ahem...

On the face of it, even if you are speeding by 1mph doing an overtake, although these are mitigating circumstances, technically you are still guilty as speeding is an 'absolute offence'. The only ways around this are to prove that for whatever reason that you were breaking the speed limit as you were threatened in some way and/or in fear of your life or safety. That is very rare, and usually only happens if you are a Manchester United player or manager.

This kind of case *can* be fought - this basically means making the camera partnership 'prove' their evidence.

You have a right to see the full, unedited video of the enforcement - if a video was recorded. The way things are going at the moment they would rather drop the case than give this out as over the hour or however long the tape is it no doubt shows at some time the device giving error messages or freak results and/or the operator zapping anyone in sight with no reference to the necessary 'prior opinion of excess speed'.

Before you embark on this though, I would recommend looking at the 'LTI2020 Strikes again..... at me' thread. I would get a drink and something to eat before you start reading it though, as Peters story of the way he has been fobbed off by the CPS is now becoming quite epic!

It comes down to this:

The 3 points and £60 is an easy way out.

Regardless of the opinion of your own guilt, or even if you are unsure, you still have a right to make the case be 'proven' against you. You have little to lose by this - possibly £35 in court costs *if* you end up getting the full tape and then decide to change your plea to guilty in court. for 58 in a 50 you will only get 3 points anyway.

Its just up to you how much time you have!

[Mr_annie_vxr]

Well you know more than me.. (god i'd hate to stop you). I also think that its a shame if you get a ticket. I wouldn't have given you one unless your manouvre was dangerous or careless. I mean 8mph!!.

[alt]

Thanks chaps. And you're right, paying the fine IS the easy option. Will think about it...
Cheers... Andrew

[Sam_68]

If it's any consolation, I'm about to send off the Section 172 PACE response to an NIP for 35 in a 30 limit, from those mad buggers in North Wales. On an A-road exiting Llangollen, perfect visibility and road conditions, no pedestrians in sight and no junctions.

I was under the impression that lazer operators had to form a judgement on excess speed before pulling the trigger? If they can judge the difference between 30 and 35, at that sort of distance, they must be pretty good!

[justinp1]

Sam_68 said:

If it's any consolation, I'm about to send off the Section 172 PACE response to an NIP for 35 in a 30 limit, from those mad buggers in North Wales. On an A-road exiting Llangollen, perfect visibility and road conditions, no pedestrians in sight and no junctions.

I was under the impression that lazer operators had to form a judgement on excess speed before pulling the trigger? If they can judge the difference between 30 and 35, at that sort of distance, they must be pretty good!

Dont worry, they are really good. Especially the civilian ones. They can seemingly assess speed for evidential purposes at up to a kilometre away before spraying and waving a laser beam toward your car to get a reading from the magic device which is calibrated once a year on stationary objects up to 100m away.

If that fills you with confidence I would advise anyone to send their £60 without asking questions!

[LongQ]

alt said:

Don't know if any of you know the A40 approaching Ross-on-Wye but it's a dual-carriageway with no roundabouts all the way from Monmouth. NSL applies except for a mile or so at Pencraig/Goodrich which was dropped to 50mph a few years ago. This 50mph has one exit and a gap in the barrier to allow cars to cross which probably "justifies" the lower limit.

Ah yes, I used to travel that route weekly, mostly before they slapped the limit on it. That nice little narrow stretch with the junction, the tractors, the semi-blind bends. The trucks pulling away from the cafe that used ot be on the northbound side, or maybe just stopped in the road whilst they bought a Yorkie from the shop. (Southbound there was the petrol station with the forecourt space problem and the entrance which you couldn't see well as you approached but often has the back end of an artic trailer poking out of it ...)

Fun days. My regular Friday night commute home would often mean passing through there northbound at around 80. Slightly less in the pouring rain.

The limit was introduced shortly after I saw, on a commute south one mid morning, a Transit mini-bus minus most of its roof in the central reservation north of the junction at the barriers. A strange location to be sure. I suspect it was heading north at the time and, whatever happened, it ended up going through the gap for the turning and down the other side of the hedge. The long southbound straight north of Pencraig was a fairly regular speed measurement section (police, pre partnership stuff) back 10 years ago when I started doing the trip regularly.

Not somewhere I go these days.

Sad really. Ross to Newport or vice versa used to be a nice part of the run on a good day.

[eccles]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

alt said:

Mr_annie_vxr said:

Your probably right a police patrol wouldn't have.. most likely they'd have followed you round or overtaken both of you. I'd consider fighting it.

Thanks Steve. When you say "fight it" do you mean go to court? At the end of the day I know that I was in the wrong so what would my defence be?
Cheers.... Andrew

My view would be that you were carrying out an overtake of a vehicle travelling below the speed limit (it can't have been that close or at 8mph speed difference you would have been overtaking very slowly) and to ensure you carried out the manouvre safely you exceeded the limit momentarily to avoid the hazard. I'm not an expert on this though, Justinp1 is and so is pepipoo I think. I just know that if you asked me and I could i'd cancel the ticket in the circumstances outlined above.

i can't really see how you can say you were avoiding a hazzard when its dual carriage way on both sides of the road, so you're just passing a lorry going the same way.


still , its nice to get a heads up, i travel along this road on my trips home to see my folks, and so far i've never seen a camera van there before, but i'll keep an eye out in future.