Caught at 106mph. Advice folks Please
Discussion
Need a little help with this one folks.
Caught speeding 2 days ago and was clocked at 106mph.
Laser gun from 325 metres, copper was hidden in direct sunlight, as he stepped out I had difficulty seeing him. Just managed to pull up and avoid running him down.
Straight section of A road that I have driven for some 20 years, with no traffic in either direction. Good clear visibility apart from strong sunlight.
Ok, I know I was in the wrong and as I often reach this kind of speed it was inevitable that I would get caught one day.
The officer seemed a little strange and was in no way angry or showed any signs of giving me a bollocking. He first asked me if I was English and then immediately asked if I had my License with me. I showed him my licence and spotted the gun with the digits glowing red “106”. The officer said very little apart from the usual, “ Your car, insurance” type questions.
He looked me in the eye and I just raised my eyebrows at him, determined I was going to say as little as possible. He said “ I don’t think I need to say anything to you, do I” to which I shrugged.
My observations and questions are as follows:-
At 106mph and an impending court appearance, should he not have cautioned me?
Why was he not warning me about the dangers of speed and roasting my ass?
He filled in a form HORT1 and not an NiP? Is this right.
He wrongly listed my car as a manual, it is in fact a DSG ( semi Auto )
There was no mention of the 106mph on the document.
I was not asked to sign the document ( probably because I asked to see the calibration certificate of the laser gun as he was about to tear it out of his book )
He was very willing and helpful in showing me the calib. Certificate and talked me through how the gun is set up.
I was asked to produce my Insurance certificate at the local station in 7 days.
All in all I thought the copper was a bit odd and didn’t seem to be following any set guidelines or protocols. This maybe just me hoping to find a loophole ;o)
Your comments and thoughts would be appreciated.
munchintoz
Caught speeding 2 days ago and was clocked at 106mph.
Laser gun from 325 metres, copper was hidden in direct sunlight, as he stepped out I had difficulty seeing him. Just managed to pull up and avoid running him down.
Straight section of A road that I have driven for some 20 years, with no traffic in either direction. Good clear visibility apart from strong sunlight.
Ok, I know I was in the wrong and as I often reach this kind of speed it was inevitable that I would get caught one day.
The officer seemed a little strange and was in no way angry or showed any signs of giving me a bollocking. He first asked me if I was English and then immediately asked if I had my License with me. I showed him my licence and spotted the gun with the digits glowing red “106”. The officer said very little apart from the usual, “ Your car, insurance” type questions.
He looked me in the eye and I just raised my eyebrows at him, determined I was going to say as little as possible. He said “ I don’t think I need to say anything to you, do I” to which I shrugged.
My observations and questions are as follows:-
At 106mph and an impending court appearance, should he not have cautioned me?
Why was he not warning me about the dangers of speed and roasting my ass?
He filled in a form HORT1 and not an NiP? Is this right.
He wrongly listed my car as a manual, it is in fact a DSG ( semi Auto )
There was no mention of the 106mph on the document.
I was not asked to sign the document ( probably because I asked to see the calibration certificate of the laser gun as he was about to tear it out of his book )
He was very willing and helpful in showing me the calib. Certificate and talked me through how the gun is set up.
I was asked to produce my Insurance certificate at the local station in 7 days.
All in all I thought the copper was a bit odd and didn’t seem to be following any set guidelines or protocols. This maybe just me hoping to find a loophole ;o)
Your comments and thoughts would be appreciated.
munchintoz
You *may* be a very lucky man.
Two ways forward - take the rap for your 'crime'.
The second one although I can advise and give ideas - it a solicitor job as you perhaps will have a good case but will need a solicitor to carry it through in court, so you may as well get one from the start.
If you have not been cautioned - and you dont see anything in the post then technically the case will fail as you need to be 'cautioned' in 14 days.
There is also the slight possibility that the police officer did not really like nabbing speeders anyway, but wasnt given the choice. When he knew that there was a chance that he may have to take a day off to argue a case, he may have changed his mind on whether to report you!
You need to write down exactly what was said to you as you may have to refer to this is 6 months time. A solicitor may find a case around not being cautioned. The next thing to do would be to find a good one which specialises in traffic offences.
Two ways forward - take the rap for your 'crime'.
The second one although I can advise and give ideas - it a solicitor job as you perhaps will have a good case but will need a solicitor to carry it through in court, so you may as well get one from the start.
If you have not been cautioned - and you dont see anything in the post then technically the case will fail as you need to be 'cautioned' in 14 days.
There is also the slight possibility that the police officer did not really like nabbing speeders anyway, but wasnt given the choice. When he knew that there was a chance that he may have to take a day off to argue a case, he may have changed his mind on whether to report you!
You need to write down exactly what was said to you as you may have to refer to this is 6 months time. A solicitor may find a case around not being cautioned. The next thing to do would be to find a good one which specialises in traffic offences.
I've got to be honest it sounds a little like a telling off and thats it... Its hard to say. From what your posting it comes accross to me that the officer has let you off with a warning and having to produce your DL and thats it. No caution / formal report or anything and the the comments he made. It may just have been your very lucky day.
Alex said:
zumbruk said:
You should have been cautioned & issued with a NIP.
An NIP is only issued when you have not been stopped (e.g. Gatso or camera van).
You fail to recognise the 'verbal nip' (you will be reported for consideration of prosecution for the offence of...' or words to that effect. Which does not appear to have been given. It looks like the OP may have been very, very, lucky.
Thanks for your comments guys.
The officer did mention that I would have to go to court, so I don’t think this was a let off.
I distinctly remember though, at no point did he tell me off, caution me or even utter the words “ One hundred and six”… seems very odd. At one point I thought he was maybe having an off day and was just being a bit miserable, but when asked about the laser gun certificate, he was as bright as a button and was talking to me about it as if I was his mate down the pub ?
He showed me the certificate and pointed out the various dates etc, standing right beside me like someone showing me his holiday snaps !
He even showed me how it was setup and calibrated before he started “Shooting”!
I have to say he was a very pleasant chap indeed and showed no signs of anger or stress.
Alex… I thought this was the case with an NiP…. Thanks.
The officer did mention that I would have to go to court, so I don’t think this was a let off.
I distinctly remember though, at no point did he tell me off, caution me or even utter the words “ One hundred and six”… seems very odd. At one point I thought he was maybe having an off day and was just being a bit miserable, but when asked about the laser gun certificate, he was as bright as a button and was talking to me about it as if I was his mate down the pub ?
He showed me the certificate and pointed out the various dates etc, standing right beside me like someone showing me his holiday snaps !
He even showed me how it was setup and calibrated before he started “Shooting”!
I have to say he was a very pleasant chap indeed and showed no signs of anger or stress.
Alex… I thought this was the case with an NiP…. Thanks.
munchintoz said:
Thanks for your comments guys.
The officer did mention that I would have to go to court, so I don’t think this was a let off.
I distinctly remember though, at no point did he tell me off, caution me or even utter the words “ One hundred and six”… seems very odd. At one point I thought he was maybe having an off day and was just being a bit miserable, but when asked about the laser gun certificate, he was as bright as a button and was talking to me about it as if I was his mate down the pub ?
He showed me the certificate and pointed out the various dates etc, standing right beside me like someone showing me his holiday snaps !
He even showed me how it was setup and calibrated before he started “Shooting”!
I have to say he was a very pleasant chap indeed and showed no signs of anger or stress.
Alex… I thought this was the case with an NiP…. Thanks.
The officer did mention that I would have to go to court, so I don’t think this was a let off.
I distinctly remember though, at no point did he tell me off, caution me or even utter the words “ One hundred and six”… seems very odd. At one point I thought he was maybe having an off day and was just being a bit miserable, but when asked about the laser gun certificate, he was as bright as a button and was talking to me about it as if I was his mate down the pub ?
He showed me the certificate and pointed out the various dates etc, standing right beside me like someone showing me his holiday snaps !
He even showed me how it was setup and calibrated before he started “Shooting”!
I have to say he was a very pleasant chap indeed and showed no signs of anger or stress.
Alex… I thought this was the case with an NiP…. Thanks.
I *believe* that the case law surrounding this is that the CPS must prove that the caution was given *and* understood.
You quite possibly did very well by shrugging your shoulders! Again though, if you are going to rely on this you need to prove that you made notes of the incident and exactly what was said, even down to doing a script. You will also need to get a solicitor to fight this one for you, as it need reliance on case law, and the correct way of wording the case which does not incriminate you whilst proving your own case.
munchintoz said:
Waht about the fact my car is described wrongly on the "HORT1"? Any chance this may be exploitable?
Sounds to me like he's let you off. I had a similar incident when I was pulled over by a trafpol who had been following me (said he couldn't keep up) but gave me an estimation of my speed
got a lecture etc but was only given a producer with no mention of offence on it - took documents to local cop shop and that was the end of it. As an aside he put the wrong details for my bike on the producer but I wasn't charged with anything so it's irrelevant.
I think you have just experienced the benefit of 'discretion' enjoy it, as it's fast becoming an endangered species.
You're VERY lucky if you get away with it, given "Laser gun from 325 metres, copper was hidden in direct sunlight, as he stepped out I had difficulty seeing him. Just managed to pull up and avoid running him down." That does suggest that 106mph was excessive in the circumstances (and I certainly don't always believe that to be the case).
cheeky said:
You're VERY lucky if you get away with it, given "Laser gun from 325 metres, copper was hidden in direct sunlight, as he stepped out I had difficulty seeing him. Just managed to pull up and avoid running him down." That does suggest that 106mph was excessive in the circumstances (and I certainly don't always believe that to be the case).
I know, and this is something that I will certainly NOT mention if this goes to court. Having said that I maintain that the fact I did see him and pull up in time means that visibility was good and clear. I was wearing shades and using my sun visor.
Don't know about the legalities, but please at least recognise that you had a near miss and learn from it. I'm not preaching about absolute speed, but you seem to be saying that visibility was good apart from... And then you're chuffed because you just about spotted him and stopped. At least take away the learning that in similar cirumstances you might want to consider moderating it a bit rather than just thinking how clever you were to get away with not running him down this time.
DSG - Automatic or manual. Given there are only these two choices I'd say it was manual (it has clutch after all and you're changing the gear - it's just preselected by the box).
Stuart
DSG - Automatic or manual. Given there are only these two choices I'd say it was manual (it has clutch after all and you're changing the gear - it's just preselected by the box).
Stuart
Stuart
I understand your comments but please understand, I am not “Bragging” about the fact I stopped before running down an officer of the law, just stating that with the sun as high as it was and obscuring the patrol car ( which meant I didn’t see anything reflective from a distance ) I was surprised the officer took the risk of standing in the road with a car fast approaching. I admit that 106mph is excessive but with the road conditions, level of traffic (none) and yes, the brightness of the sun, I did not think I was taking any unnecessary risks.
I have been driving for some 28 years and like most people of my age, have been prosecuted for speeding before. I had it coming.
As for DSG. The “Box” works mostly as an Auto. I can change gear manually with the paddles. If left alone for 20 seconds, then the box is always in Auto mode.
Munchintoz
I understand your comments but please understand, I am not “Bragging” about the fact I stopped before running down an officer of the law, just stating that with the sun as high as it was and obscuring the patrol car ( which meant I didn’t see anything reflective from a distance ) I was surprised the officer took the risk of standing in the road with a car fast approaching. I admit that 106mph is excessive but with the road conditions, level of traffic (none) and yes, the brightness of the sun, I did not think I was taking any unnecessary risks.
I have been driving for some 28 years and like most people of my age, have been prosecuted for speeding before. I had it coming.
As for DSG. The “Box” works mostly as an Auto. I can change gear manually with the paddles. If left alone for 20 seconds, then the box is always in Auto mode.
Munchintoz
Not trying to get at you - only you (and perhaps the officer) know the detail. Its often the case though that attitude to such incidents is a much better indicator of risk of a future accident than driving expertise or experience. You seemed (and of course I judge purely from the posts) to possibly be in denial as to whether the speed was appropriate for the vision you had. This is something most of us need to be conscious of (I include myself). Just something to consider.
DSG - I guess you can argue it either way since it's neither one nor t'other. I'd say like SMG that it's an automatically controlled manual gearbox as opposed to a manually controlled automatic (traditional slush box with lever or paddle selection). But that's getting a bit off track isn't it?
All the best,
Stuart
DSG - I guess you can argue it either way since it's neither one nor t'other. I'd say like SMG that it's an automatically controlled manual gearbox as opposed to a manually controlled automatic (traditional slush box with lever or paddle selection). But that's getting a bit off track isn't it?
All the best,
Stuart
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