Unenforcable Speed Limit Signs - A Different Question
Discussion
From the local newspaper website, there's another story about unenforcable speed limits, due to minor errors in the limit sign itself. In this case, its the fact that the border around the yellow rectangle which contains the main "30" roundel is black, instead of red. Full story here:
www.halifaxtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=700&ArticleID=1921594
Now, Im not going to ask the usual questions about "How many have been caught" and "Will they refund those already caught?"
My question is "How does this happen?"
Is it:
1) The council (not knowing any better) places an order with the sign making company, but says "can we have them with a black border, 'cos the red borders look a bit naff"
2) The sign-making company have a catalogue, from which the council says "We'll have one of those", but the company haven't got a clue about the regulations and make them with a black border
3) The sign making company know that they should have a red border, but have made them with a black one, as they know that (eventaually) cases such as this one happen, and the council will be back to order another set of signs, thereby increasing the sign comapny's profit through greater sales.
Anyone any thoughts?
www.halifaxtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=700&ArticleID=1921594
Now, Im not going to ask the usual questions about "How many have been caught" and "Will they refund those already caught?"
My question is "How does this happen?"
Is it:
1) The council (not knowing any better) places an order with the sign making company, but says "can we have them with a black border, 'cos the red borders look a bit naff"
2) The sign-making company have a catalogue, from which the council says "We'll have one of those", but the company haven't got a clue about the regulations and make them with a black border
3) The sign making company know that they should have a red border, but have made them with a black one, as they know that (eventaually) cases such as this one happen, and the council will be back to order another set of signs, thereby increasing the sign comapny's profit through greater sales.
Anyone any thoughts?
A good question.
A similar one which I often wondered is that on the neverending M6 roadworks at thw Thelwall viaduct during the last year we were treated to the wonderful warning/information sign:
"Men working under bridge"
It was about 6ft by 10ft. I dont know how much this cost but somewhere I paid a lot of tax/duty toward someone to think of commisssioning it, someone to procure it, a private company to make it at a profit, and the most likely private company installing it.
All to warn me to avoid on my trip *over* the bridge to avoid hitting the people working *under* the bridge.
Ironically while money and manpower was spent doing this the repairs went literally years over schedule and the effect that it had on the local businesses was so much that huge employers moved elsewhere as people literally could not get to work on time.
A similar one which I often wondered is that on the neverending M6 roadworks at thw Thelwall viaduct during the last year we were treated to the wonderful warning/information sign:
"Men working under bridge"
It was about 6ft by 10ft. I dont know how much this cost but somewhere I paid a lot of tax/duty toward someone to think of commisssioning it, someone to procure it, a private company to make it at a profit, and the most likely private company installing it.
All to warn me to avoid on my trip *over* the bridge to avoid hitting the people working *under* the bridge.
Ironically while money and manpower was spent doing this the repairs went literally years over schedule and the effect that it had on the local businesses was so much that huge employers moved elsewhere as people literally could not get to work on time.
justinp1 said:
A good question.
A similar one which I often wondered is that on the neverending M6 roadworks at thw Thelwall viaduct during the last year we were treated to the wonderful warning/information sign:
"Men working under bridge"
It was about 6ft by 10ft. I dont know how much this cost but somewhere I paid a lot of tax/duty toward someone to think of commisssioning it, someone to procure it, a private company to make it at a profit, and the most likely private company installing it.
All to warn me to avoid on my trip *over* the bridge to avoid hitting the people working *under* the bridge.
Ironically while money and manpower was spent doing this the repairs went literally years over schedule and the effect that it had on the local businesses was so much that huge employers moved elsewhere as people literally could not get to work on time.
Such signs appear to be placed to explain why areas are coned off when there is no evidence of work being done in the coned-off areas - StreakyA similar one which I often wondered is that on the neverending M6 roadworks at thw Thelwall viaduct during the last year we were treated to the wonderful warning/information sign:
"Men working under bridge"
It was about 6ft by 10ft. I dont know how much this cost but somewhere I paid a lot of tax/duty toward someone to think of commisssioning it, someone to procure it, a private company to make it at a profit, and the most likely private company installing it.
All to warn me to avoid on my trip *over* the bridge to avoid hitting the people working *under* the bridge.
Ironically while money and manpower was spent doing this the repairs went literally years over schedule and the effect that it had on the local businesses was so much that huge employers moved elsewhere as people literally could not get to work on time.
No mention at all here about the colour of the bit around the red circle. Does that mean that the yellow background makes it illegal too?
[url]www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs04.htm[/url]
[url]www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs04.htm[/url]
There are several villages in West Wales which use the roundel with the black border, to appear to have a 50 limit where in fact its an NSL. My understanding is that the councils were unable to persuade HA to put a 50 limit TRO in place so they have tried to trick motorists into believing that there is a speed restriction.
Happens in North Wales too. 20 sign with black roundel outside school in Hope near Wrexham. Last week at past 21:00 came up behind numpty bumbling along at 19 for half a mile ( no "derestriction" roundel signs of course)
Overtook where it was safe to do so, in a micra and continued at probably around 35. Numpty tailgated me heads full on an horn blaring.
wits !
Overtook where it was safe to do so, in a micra and continued at probably around 35. Numpty tailgated me heads full on an horn blaring.
wits ! Richard C said:
Happens in North Wales too. 20 sign with black roundel outside school in Hope near Wrexham. Last week at past 21:00 came up behind numpty bumbling along at 19 for half a mile ( no "derestriction" roundel signs of course)
Overtook where it was safe to do so, in a micra and continued at probably around 35. Numpty tailgated me heads full on an horn blaring.
wits !
Overtook where it was safe to do so, in a micra and continued at probably around 35. Numpty tailgated me heads full on an horn blaring.
wits !It always astonished me that after things like this happen that the 'prat' has such self-righteousness to forget what they were doing and use the horn to beep you!
A couple of weeks ago I got beeped by just such a person. This was after I did not give way at a roundabout - possibly fair you may think... but:
...this was only after I had had to do an emergency stop ON the roundabout after he drove straight onto the roundabout without even glancing right. He saw me at the last second from his peripharal vision and we both stopped short of an accident. However seemingly as I had the audacity aftert his had happened to not stop on the roundabout and signal him out and just drove around him vacating the roundabout he followed me out of the roundabout blaring his horn!
I must admit I was so annoyed and astonished I stopped my car in the road - then looked out of the window and the guy was a bit more sheepish. That is the closest I have got with actually getting out of my car over an incident.
As I understand TSGD's a backing board can be either grey or yellow.
The board, since 2004, has to be rectangular except where a town/village name is incorporated.
The board can carry another sign in addition to the restriction roundel but that additional sign must be a prescribed sign within the Regs. Such signs should be borderless. If there is a border or any colour around the plate it is not an authorised sign. (Except 20mph zones, which car a black border, in themselves are authorised under the Regs.)
The sign shown seems to contravene a number of requirements.
dvd
The board, since 2004, has to be rectangular except where a town/village name is incorporated.
The board can carry another sign in addition to the restriction roundel but that additional sign must be a prescribed sign within the Regs. Such signs should be borderless. If there is a border or any colour around the plate it is not an authorised sign. (Except 20mph zones, which car a black border, in themselves are authorised under the Regs.)
The sign shown seems to contravene a number of requirements.
dvd
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