Random breath testing
Discussion
If I was stopped in a layby and asked to blow, would I be within my rights to refuse or would they take offence and arrest me?
If I haven't been involved in a collision or committed a moving traffic offence, and have not touched any alcohol all week, but they still insisted I blow on the grounds of suspicion, where would I legally stand by refusing? I understand the new breath test doesn't indicate whether no alcohol has been consumed, but only gives a pass or fail, in which case I wouldn't be able to prove that they had no grounds to request me to blow, as a pass wouldn't prove I haven't touched any alcohol.
Btw, I obviously don't condone drunk driving, and if an officer smells alcohol then a breath test is the right thing to do. But if I'm randomly stopped in a queue and the officer cannot possibly have any real suspicion that I've been drinking because I haven't, why not let me carry on my way? I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain in allowing an illegal breath test, but everything to lose as I fear for my civil rights and their gradual erosion, I don't want to live in a police state in 10 years time.
So can I legally refuse the random breath test?
If I haven't been involved in a collision or committed a moving traffic offence, and have not touched any alcohol all week, but they still insisted I blow on the grounds of suspicion, where would I legally stand by refusing? I understand the new breath test doesn't indicate whether no alcohol has been consumed, but only gives a pass or fail, in which case I wouldn't be able to prove that they had no grounds to request me to blow, as a pass wouldn't prove I haven't touched any alcohol.
Btw, I obviously don't condone drunk driving, and if an officer smells alcohol then a breath test is the right thing to do. But if I'm randomly stopped in a queue and the officer cannot possibly have any real suspicion that I've been drinking because I haven't, why not let me carry on my way? I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain in allowing an illegal breath test, but everything to lose as I fear for my civil rights and their gradual erosion, I don't want to live in a police state in 10 years time.
So can I legally refuse the random breath test?
If you haven't commited a moving traffic offence or been involved in a collision, but a constable reasonably suspects that you have driven, attempted to drive or are in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place. Where they also reasonably suspect that you have alcohol or a drug in your body, or you are under the influence of a drug, then they can require you to take a breath test.
If without reasonable excuse you fail to co-operate with a preliminary test in pursuance of a requirement imposed, then you commit an offence.
In short, if they reasonably suspect you have alcohol or drug in your body, but you believe they don't have grounds to hold that reasonable suspicion & refuse to take the test, then the likely outcome is that you will be arrested & taken to a station for analysis samples to be taken. If here you fail to take the test then you would be charged. If you provide the analysis samples & then pass you would be released. Beyond that your recourse is through the Police complaints proceedure & or private criminal prosecution or civil suit, where others will decide after listening to you & them whether they had grounds to reasonably suspect what they did.
If without reasonable excuse you fail to co-operate with a preliminary test in pursuance of a requirement imposed, then you commit an offence.
In short, if they reasonably suspect you have alcohol or drug in your body, but you believe they don't have grounds to hold that reasonable suspicion & refuse to take the test, then the likely outcome is that you will be arrested & taken to a station for analysis samples to be taken. If here you fail to take the test then you would be charged. If you provide the analysis samples & then pass you would be released. Beyond that your recourse is through the Police complaints proceedure & or private criminal prosecution or civil suit, where others will decide after listening to you & them whether they had grounds to reasonably suspect what they did.
vonhosen said:
a constable reasonably suspects that you have driven, attempted to drive or are in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place
Can we assume that simply being in a car on the road therefore doesn't allow for reasonable suspicion? (haven't got Archie to hand)
This has been covered in some depth on a thread I started a week or so ago:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=332008
with some useful contributions from the BiB.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=332008
with some useful contributions from the BiB.
Yes, take the test and make a strong point AFTER taking the test that you object to being randomly tested and that you will be making a formal complaint. You should also ask them to inform you as to why they had suspicions that you had taken alcohol and note their response.
That way you have complied with their request ans removed yourself from risk of a ban, and they have been put 'on notice' that you have objected and will be complaining.
That way you have complied with their request ans removed yourself from risk of a ban, and they have been put 'on notice' that you have objected and will be complaining.
Its more about what it doesnt show. If a person is intoxicated and there is no alcohol indicated that points towards drugs. There are roadside sobriety tests that some officers have been trained to do specifically for drugs, in most cases its an arrest under S4 and a trip to the station for a doctors opinion and blood samples.
On friday night i were pulled for the first time for apparently "A faulty brake light". Little known to Mr VolvoV70 I had replaced the bulbs a week previously and I always carry around a little bulb kit with spares in. They breathalised me also as I had committed a moving traffic offence but showed up 0.00.
What irritated me was him saying I had a brake light out when i obviously had not,so a quick spin back up the high street I parked opposite said Copper and replaced the brake light infront of him.
Its just irritating that he said that to breath test me. If he had said "Look its christmas time and we are breath testing at random" I would not have minded one bit.
What irritated me was him saying I had a brake light out when i obviously had not,so a quick spin back up the high street I parked opposite said Copper and replaced the brake light infront of him.
Its just irritating that he said that to breath test me. If he had said "Look its christmas time and we are breath testing at random" I would not have minded one bit.
Dibble said:
How do you know the brake light wasn't faulty?
Not having a dig, just curious.
Not having a dig, just curious.
Presumably the correct course of action would have been to say to the Copper
"I have some spare bulbs, can you please depress the brake pedal for me so I can check which is out and replace it?"
chrisgr31 said:
Dibble said:
How do you know the brake light wasn't faulty?
Not having a dig, just curious.
Not having a dig, just curious.
Presumably the correct course of action would have been to say to the Copper
"I have some spare bulbs, can you please depress the brake pedal for me so I can check which is out and replace it?"
Can't see any problem with that myself.
chrisgr31 said:
Dibble said:
How do you know the brake light wasn't faulty?
Not having a dig, just curious.
Not having a dig, just curious.
Presumably the correct course of action would have been to say to the Copper
"I have some spare bulbs, can you please depress the brake pedal for me so I can check which is out and replace it?"
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