re: Pressure group calls for concerted action
Wednesday 20th December 2006
'We want more', says Oxon councilOxfordshire county council plans a raft of ever more draconian speed limits, despite the county's infestation with speed cameras and a rising death toll. That's the picture painted by Mark McArthur-Christie, policy director of the Association of British Drivers.
Oxon council plots more speed limits
Pressure group calls for concerted action
'We want more', says Oxon council
The new 50mph limits are:
- B4027 – A40 at Forest Hill to Islip
- A329 – Milton Common to the A418 at Thame
- B4012 – Thame to the A40 Tetsworth
- B4011 – Ambrosden junction to the county boundary with Bucks
- B4437 – Charlbury to Grims Dyke Farm near the A44
- A361 – Bradwell Grove to Lechlade
- A417 – Faringdon to East Challow
According to McArthur-Christie, the limits will cost £50k to introduce, including visual traffic calming (ie more sign and red paint clutter). He said: "And this is in a county where deaths are racking up so fast I can’t keep pace. Yesterday we were 21 higher than 2005, overnight 4 more people died. So we’re now at 65 deaths in one year in one of the most speed limited, humped, bumped and cameraed counties."
What can you do?
McArthur-Christie has written to the council to object, as follows; "When I started writing this letter on Sunday, we’d had fifty-nine deaths on Oxfordshire’s roads this year. In the time it’s taken me to finish, there have been four more fatalities - that’s twenty four deaths up on last year.
"It is also despite new 50 limits, 30 limits, 20 limits, 107 cameras, plans for more and plans for another raft of yet more 50 limits. That’s despite calming schemes, humps, bumps and chicanes. That’s despite forests of new signs littering the roadside. That’s despite ugly red patches slapped on the road screaming ‘SLOW’.
"What more do we need to show us that external controls like this do not and cannot work to prevent accidents? The county’s ultra-low 50 limits have not prevented crashes on the A415. Their ultra-low 50 limits and cameras have not prevented deaths on the A420. Their new 40 limits and speed cameras on the A40 have not prevented deaths. The headlines this week tell the story.
"When I ride these roads and stick to the limits, people tailgate me, flash and hoot me to move over and attempt overtakes that are potentially lethal out of sheer, maddened frustration. Of course, they shouldn’t. They should behave and be compliant with the limits. But in the real world -- not Council-Land -- they don’t.
"The council seems to believe it can set a limit for every hazard, so we have limits that change constantly. To comply with them precisely means, in effect, driving by numbers. This road safety policy is just like painting by numbers. A very poor facsimile of the real thing.
"We have now got to the point in Oxfordshire where the cure is worse than the illness. We urgently need to review the causes of the crashes that have claimed so many lives and develop a road safety policy that works. The current ‘the answer’s a speed limit, now what’s the question?’ policy doesn’t."
McArthur-Christie is asking people to write to the council to object. The deadline for receipt of responses is 12 January 2007.
All you need to do, said McArthur-Christie, is email an objection to three people: the person who makes the decision on the County’s roads, David Robertson, the key Council Officer, Geoff Barrell, and Keith Mitchell, the Leader of the County Council.
- David Robertson – Executive Member for Transport. david.robertson@oxfordshire.gov.uk
- Geoff Barrell, Environment & Economy, Road Safety. geoff.barrell@oxfordshire.gov.uk
- Keith Mitchell, Leader, Oxfordshire County Council. leader@oxfordshire.gov.uk
- Association of British Drivers
Discussion
Strikes me as a superb comprehensive argument put by McArthur-Christie & ABD. Hope everybody follows recommendation to e mail Council Officers. Never Know it might just make 'em see sense
Glad I'm not in that part of the world. Good luck.
Glad I'm not in that part of the world. Good luck. Edited by sprinter885 on Wednesday 20th December 11:36
Many years ago, when a teenager, I lived near Oxford. We went shopping there.
I have driven past frequently over the years but never stopped. A couple of years ago I was an hour or so early for a meet with someone who lives on the outskirts of Oxford so I decided to take a quick run towards the centre of the City to see if I could recognise anything.
Big mistake.
It was just about the 'start of rush hour' time. Took 10 minutes to travel the first 1/2 mile. I then sat in a short queue - no more that 10 vehicles at the start - waiting to turn onto a main road at a traffic light controlled junction. I finally got through the junction 40 minutes later.
Fortunately I have no real needs to go to Oxford and will avoid anything that might take me there if at all possible. I do have enormous sympathy for those who live there and and think the suggested campaign is absolutely necessary.
There is, I am told, a saying in academia that sums this up in a way.
"You can always tell an Oxford man, but you can't tell him much!"
I suspect the same now goes for the less heady environs of the council.
Good luck with attempts to advance democracy and people power.
I have driven past frequently over the years but never stopped. A couple of years ago I was an hour or so early for a meet with someone who lives on the outskirts of Oxford so I decided to take a quick run towards the centre of the City to see if I could recognise anything.
Big mistake.
It was just about the 'start of rush hour' time. Took 10 minutes to travel the first 1/2 mile. I then sat in a short queue - no more that 10 vehicles at the start - waiting to turn onto a main road at a traffic light controlled junction. I finally got through the junction 40 minutes later.
Fortunately I have no real needs to go to Oxford and will avoid anything that might take me there if at all possible. I do have enormous sympathy for those who live there and and think the suggested campaign is absolutely necessary.
There is, I am told, a saying in academia that sums this up in a way.
"You can always tell an Oxford man, but you can't tell him much!"
I suspect the same now goes for the less heady environs of the council.
Good luck with attempts to advance democracy and people power.
Regrettably I do live in the area concerned, and I can only confirm the utter frustration caused by seemingly arbitrary and inappropriate speed restrictions that are in place.
The most irritating thing of course is that the drivers who continue to do 60mph plus along roads that have had the speed limit dropped from 40 to 30 for example rarely get caught, whereas locals poodling along at what was always (and still is) a safe 35mph do get nicked - and they get resentful. As for the ever increasing miles of open country roads with a 50mph limit, I have absolutely no idea what the point of that exercise was at all.
The death toll on the roads is not being reduced by speed restrictions and enforcement cameras. What we need are more, properly trained and qualified traffic police on the roads who have some discretion, can see the bigger picture, and ensure that some of the truly appalling drivers are either taught the errors of their ways or else taken off the road.
The most irritating thing of course is that the drivers who continue to do 60mph plus along roads that have had the speed limit dropped from 40 to 30 for example rarely get caught, whereas locals poodling along at what was always (and still is) a safe 35mph do get nicked - and they get resentful. As for the ever increasing miles of open country roads with a 50mph limit, I have absolutely no idea what the point of that exercise was at all.
The death toll on the roads is not being reduced by speed restrictions and enforcement cameras. What we need are more, properly trained and qualified traffic police on the roads who have some discretion, can see the bigger picture, and ensure that some of the truly appalling drivers are either taught the errors of their ways or else taken off the road.
Another problem caused by slow speed limits is that traffic tends to bunch up into long queues of cars all tavelling at the same speed, making it very difficult to turn into or turn right. this make frustrated drivers pull out when there is not enough space, sometimes with fatel results.
If the speed limit was higher, there would be more gaps to pull into safely.
If the speed limit was higher, there would be more gaps to pull into safely.
Up until 2001, we used to drive the B4012 – Thame to the A40 Tetsworth road on a daily basis. Yes, it's a technically challenging road but they've already implemented a raft of "safety" measures. Virtually the whole three and a half miles is now subject to double lines and I counted 83 additional pieces of roadside furniture. A week or so after they'd implemented all the 'calming' measures, there was a head-on crash on the straight piece of road alongside a farm entrance, where there was a broken line. What the engineers had failed to notice was the dip in the road - muppets The majority of incidents on that road and on the A329 were 'ran-out-of-talent, single vehicle crashes, usually on the bends.
The B4011 is a classic bikers' road and much favoured by TVP as a training route and Clarkson won't be too pleased that one of the roads near his pad is also being attacked by TPTB.
When they first implemented a 30mph limit on the A40/A329 roads around Milton Common, we were subjected to the same treatment as Mark McAarthur-Christie... people tailgated, flashed and hooted, overtaking just before the dog-leg junction.
Thank goodness we moved!
We wish Mark and the ABD every success with the campaign for common sense.
Sevener
The majority of incidents on that road and on the A329 were 'ran-out-of-talent, single vehicle crashes, usually on the bends. The B4011 is a classic bikers' road and much favoured by TVP as a training route and Clarkson won't be too pleased that one of the roads near his pad is also being attacked by TPTB.
When they first implemented a 30mph limit on the A40/A329 roads around Milton Common, we were subjected to the same treatment as Mark McAarthur-Christie... people tailgated, flashed and hooted, overtaking just before the dog-leg junction.
Thank goodness we moved!
We wish Mark and the ABD every success with the campaign for common sense.
Sevener
I live close to the A420 in Faringdon. The speed cameras that already exist on the road do nothing to stop people slowing down past them and speeding up once they are past them.
What kills people on the road is reckless overtaking when people are impatient to wait to get past someone else.
Just this week there was a bad crash and the road was closed, I suspect that might be one of those fatalities.
What kills people on the road is reckless overtaking when people are impatient to wait to get past someone else.
Just this week there was a bad crash and the road was closed, I suspect that might be one of those fatalities.
I'm lucky, I moved from Oxford back to civilisation Up North over a year ago now and I've never missed the place once.
Oxford council certainly hates cars with a passion, any trip through there in a car will tell you that. They also seem to have set the traffic light system (near the railway station) up so you're guaranteed to lurch from one red light to the next. I used to come home from work quite late at night (between 2 and 3 am) and there have been many times where I've sat at red light after red light coming through the outskirts of Oxford to get to my old house. At that time in the morning there'd just be me sitting waiting often, although sometimes another car would come along and then that set of lights would go red and we'd both be sitting looking at a third set of lights on green and with no cars moving through them. How I miss that.
Lovely looking city - but don't take a car there.
Oxford council certainly hates cars with a passion, any trip through there in a car will tell you that. They also seem to have set the traffic light system (near the railway station) up so you're guaranteed to lurch from one red light to the next. I used to come home from work quite late at night (between 2 and 3 am) and there have been many times where I've sat at red light after red light coming through the outskirts of Oxford to get to my old house. At that time in the morning there'd just be me sitting waiting often, although sometimes another car would come along and then that set of lights would go red and we'd both be sitting looking at a third set of lights on green and with no cars moving through them. How I miss that.
Lovely looking city - but don't take a car there.
I live in oxfordshire and have spent the last 18mnth commuting from Chipping Norton to Bournemouth. One part of this journey is from Chipping Norton to the A34 via the A3400 which goes through Woodstock(Blenheim palace). The whole of this route is a 50mph limit, about 17miles. Out of a journey of 110 miles this represents 10%ish of the journey but in time takes 30%.
The 50mph limit is the worst conceived idea ever put in practice on these roads. The road is a relatively safe single-carriageway A road. It is easily safe enough to do 60. There is no reason as far as I can see for the limit. Whether there is a statistical reason I dont know, but in the 18mnths of daily use I haven't seen 1 accident on it (unlike the weekly accident on the Pear Tree roundabout of the A34.)
The biggest issue with this limit, is the procession of commuters who could do 60mph, but are restricted to 45mph (keeping safely below 50) by the one person at the head of the queue. On enetering the 50mph, theres a race to get ahead of the trucks. During the 50mph limit, theres a race to overtake on the straights, and there's a large amount of dodgy manouveres.
This has to be the most frustrating speed limit devised. I can understand 30mph in a village, I can understand 60mph on an open road. I cant understand 50mph! When there is an accident on this road, it will be a big one, and it will be directly related to the inappropriate speed limit!
The 50mph limit is the worst conceived idea ever put in practice on these roads. The road is a relatively safe single-carriageway A road. It is easily safe enough to do 60. There is no reason as far as I can see for the limit. Whether there is a statistical reason I dont know, but in the 18mnths of daily use I haven't seen 1 accident on it (unlike the weekly accident on the Pear Tree roundabout of the A34.)
The biggest issue with this limit, is the procession of commuters who could do 60mph, but are restricted to 45mph (keeping safely below 50) by the one person at the head of the queue. On enetering the 50mph, theres a race to get ahead of the trucks. During the 50mph limit, theres a race to overtake on the straights, and there's a large amount of dodgy manouveres.
This has to be the most frustrating speed limit devised. I can understand 30mph in a village, I can understand 60mph on an open road. I cant understand 50mph! When there is an accident on this road, it will be a big one, and it will be directly related to the inappropriate speed limit!
I used to commute through Oxon to Henley. The lanes roughly between Stokenchurch and Henley (I can't remember the names of all the pretty little villages - presumably where the councillors live) suddenly dropped from NSL to 30 MPH overnight. What justification?! Journey time literally doubled. Bet house prices went up by 10% though.
Last time I was in the area I jumped off the M4 at J13 (Chieveley) and took the B4009 cross country through Berks, Oxon and Bucks. Oxon stands out as being infested with limits and restrictions. Driving by numbers indeed - but you have to remember what the number is! When they vary at the whim of the Council this is far from obvious. Whatever happened to determining a safe speed for the conditions within a maximum limit (ie NSL)?...
But the worst of it? Chinnor. An otherwise pleasant enough place with the B4009 running right through it. Yes, it's a B road - but it's so well-used, crossing the M40 (where you can join or leave the M40) and effectively linking Abingdon/Didcot with South Bucks (Aylesbury/Wycombe/M40). So why the heck does it have speed humps?!! Talk about impeding progress. There's no viable immediate alternative.
The sad thing is they'll be having the right effect. I'm not going that way again, impeding my progress and damaging my car. Congratulations Oxon - not in your back yard.
Last time I was in the area I jumped off the M4 at J13 (Chieveley) and took the B4009 cross country through Berks, Oxon and Bucks. Oxon stands out as being infested with limits and restrictions. Driving by numbers indeed - but you have to remember what the number is! When they vary at the whim of the Council this is far from obvious. Whatever happened to determining a safe speed for the conditions within a maximum limit (ie NSL)?...
But the worst of it? Chinnor. An otherwise pleasant enough place with the B4009 running right through it. Yes, it's a B road - but it's so well-used, crossing the M40 (where you can join or leave the M40) and effectively linking Abingdon/Didcot with South Bucks (Aylesbury/Wycombe/M40). So why the heck does it have speed humps?!! Talk about impeding progress. There's no viable immediate alternative.
The sad thing is they'll be having the right effect. I'm not going that way again, impeding my progress and damaging my car. Congratulations Oxon - not in your back yard.
RichUK said:
What kills people on the road is reckless overtaking when people are impatient to wait to get past someone else.
So true. We have some great driving roads in the county but idiots who drive on them. I don't recall reading about any of the crashes that were either fatal or serious that were not the result of reckless or drunken driving. Speed limits have made not the slightest difference.
I sent this,
Dear Mr Robertson,
Please review your current road safety policies as the evidence of it's effectiveness is overwhelmingly negative. I travel on Oxfordshire roads quite regularly and find the experience shocking to say the least. You are attempting to get people to drive by numbers, this will not work as the vast majority of drivers are not robots, most are totally unaware of what important things are going on around them as they spend most of their time watching the speedometer or peering at numerous road signs. They watch for speed camera's instead of looking out for and anticipating what other road users are doing or thinking of doing. In short your roadside signs, camera's, humps and bumps etc take away the drivers ability to concentrate on proper driving as the means to make decisions based on circumstances and experience are removed and replaced by artificial distractions that cause accidents and not prevent them.
Every death that happens as a result of your current policies should represent and underline their failure and if you are a thinking, feeling individual you must summarise by asking " Could I have prevented this through implementing sensible policies agreed with people who know what they are talking about" You people never seem to ask the right questions of the right people instead to refer to pressure groups mainly formed by individuals with vested interests ranging from the political correctness to those unfortunate enough to lose loved ones in road accidents, the greatest irony being that they pressure you to implement more bad policies similar to the ones that contributed to the deaths of their loved one in the first place, how backward is that !!
For Gods sake think again and please get some serious input from the real experts in road safety, Police Traffic offices, the various representatives of drivers associations, Advanced drivers, and even people like me who have nearly 40 years road driving experience and in addition, are holders of international race licences, or similar qualifications for we do know what we are talking about.
If doing your job the way you do, utilizing your current policies, is quite obviously making things worse, then change the policies or change jobs and make way for someone who could with the right information, make a real difference to the current, mainly unnecessary, death toll.
Here's hoping that a little of what I'm saying rubs off
Dear Mr Robertson,
Please review your current road safety policies as the evidence of it's effectiveness is overwhelmingly negative. I travel on Oxfordshire roads quite regularly and find the experience shocking to say the least. You are attempting to get people to drive by numbers, this will not work as the vast majority of drivers are not robots, most are totally unaware of what important things are going on around them as they spend most of their time watching the speedometer or peering at numerous road signs. They watch for speed camera's instead of looking out for and anticipating what other road users are doing or thinking of doing. In short your roadside signs, camera's, humps and bumps etc take away the drivers ability to concentrate on proper driving as the means to make decisions based on circumstances and experience are removed and replaced by artificial distractions that cause accidents and not prevent them.
Every death that happens as a result of your current policies should represent and underline their failure and if you are a thinking, feeling individual you must summarise by asking " Could I have prevented this through implementing sensible policies agreed with people who know what they are talking about" You people never seem to ask the right questions of the right people instead to refer to pressure groups mainly formed by individuals with vested interests ranging from the political correctness to those unfortunate enough to lose loved ones in road accidents, the greatest irony being that they pressure you to implement more bad policies similar to the ones that contributed to the deaths of their loved one in the first place, how backward is that !!
For Gods sake think again and please get some serious input from the real experts in road safety, Police Traffic offices, the various representatives of drivers associations, Advanced drivers, and even people like me who have nearly 40 years road driving experience and in addition, are holders of international race licences, or similar qualifications for we do know what we are talking about.
If doing your job the way you do, utilizing your current policies, is quite obviously making things worse, then change the policies or change jobs and make way for someone who could with the right information, make a real difference to the current, mainly unnecessary, death toll.
Here's hoping that a little of what I'm saying rubs off
Edited by Racing Rod on Wednesday 20th December 14:01
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