Statistics, hoist by your own petard.
Discussion
Reading today in the BBC website, it would appear that some interesting stats are available regarding alcohol related deaths.
Deaths rose to 8,386 in 2005 compared to 4,144 in 2001, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.
In response to this trend, the government allowed pubs to open for longer. Not the most logical move,one must admit.
When the government decided to tackle the speed problem they put cameras in place. I can see the logic of this one to a degree.
If you look at the two problems above, and stand back from each "solution" it is possible to see an underlying theme running through each "solution". With the cameras, the government get money, and surprise, surprise the government also get additional money from the extended opending hours.
So, in simple terms, the statistics show us that the government "solutions" do not really solve the problem, BUT, have we ever thought for a moment that we are not all looking at the same problem. The government focus on a money problem, while they would have us believe they have our interests at heart.
You see, the beautiful thing about numbers is their emotionless clarity.
Deaths rose to 8,386 in 2005 compared to 4,144 in 2001, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.
In response to this trend, the government allowed pubs to open for longer. Not the most logical move,one must admit.
When the government decided to tackle the speed problem they put cameras in place. I can see the logic of this one to a degree.
If you look at the two problems above, and stand back from each "solution" it is possible to see an underlying theme running through each "solution". With the cameras, the government get money, and surprise, surprise the government also get additional money from the extended opending hours.
So, in simple terms, the statistics show us that the government "solutions" do not really solve the problem, BUT, have we ever thought for a moment that we are not all looking at the same problem. The government focus on a money problem, while they would have us believe they have our interests at heart.
You see, the beautiful thing about numbers is their emotionless clarity.
The United Soviet Socialist Republic of Blair?
They want to control us and charge us for it. Their not stupid these people you know, oh no. If they can make a few quid while controlling us at the same time, they are onto a winner (in their eyes).
What a great country,
God bless the Queen,
Merry Christmas.
Couldn't find the BBC article, but the National Statistics website states:-
"The total number of deaths in road accidents fell slightly by 1 per cent to 3,201 in 2005 from 3,221 in 2004. However, the number of fatalities has remained fairly constant over the last ten years."
Interestingly, the RoSPA website states that the reduction in deaths "proves" the effectiveness of Safety Cameras, without considering any other factors whatsoever.
"The total number of deaths in road accidents fell slightly by 1 per cent to 3,201 in 2005 from 3,221 in 2004. However, the number of fatalities has remained fairly constant over the last ten years."
Interestingly, the RoSPA website states that the reduction in deaths "proves" the effectiveness of Safety Cameras, without considering any other factors whatsoever.
canam said:
Couldn't find the BBC article, but the National Statistics website states:-
"The total number of deaths in road accidents fell slightly by 1 per cent to 3,201 in 2005 from 3,221 in 2004. However, the number of fatalities has remained fairly constant over the last ten years."
Interestingly, the RoSPA website states that the reduction in deaths "proves" the effectiveness of Safety Cameras, without considering any other factors whatsoever.
A Sir Humphrey-esque conjugation of the verb 'to prove' would run: "The total number of deaths in road accidents fell slightly by 1 per cent to 3,201 in 2005 from 3,221 in 2004. However, the number of fatalities has remained fairly constant over the last ten years."
Interestingly, the RoSPA website states that the reduction in deaths "proves" the effectiveness of Safety Cameras, without considering any other factors whatsoever.
I prove
You spin
He, she or it lies
Or as he said in 'A Question of Loyalty', "A good speech is one where nobody can prove its contents are lies."
Benjamin Disraeli is popularly attributed [but see footnote] as having said it earlier and slightly differently: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Other quotations on statistics that PH readers (and the Scamera Pratnerships) might do well to consider are:
"Statistics are like women; mirrors of purest virture and truth, or like whores to use as one pleases." - Theodore Billroth
"Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable." - Anon
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
"Do not put your faith in what statistics say until you have carefully considered what they do not say." - William Watt
Streaky
Also attributed to: Mark Twain (in 1904, claiming to be quoting Disraeli, but probably interpreting Lord Courtney's (q.v.) reference to "Wise Statesman" as being to Disraeli), Henry Du Pre Labouchere (at unknown date), Leonard Courtney (in 1895 - with the words: "We may quote to one another with a chuckle the words of the Wise Statesman, 'lies ...'" ), Cornelia (Mrs Andrew) Crosse (in 1892) and an M Price MD (but most probably quoting it).
There is also some thought that this is a list of only two: lies and statistics; and that the "damned lies" was originally parenthetical cursing, vis: "Lies - damned lies - and statistics" (put the emphasis appropriately).
When it comes to court, Judge Lord Young is reported as saying: "There are four classes of witnesses - liars, damned liars, Expert Witnesses and Sir Henry Littlejohn." (Sir Henry was a Police Surgeon, MOH and Prof. Forensic Medince at Edinburgh University). As someone who has appeared as an Expert Witness, the positioning gives me some concern: but then I think of the various testimony of Professor Sir Roy Meadows and his misuse of statistics ... - S
streaky said:
canam said:
Couldn't find the BBC article, but the National Statistics website states:-
"The total number of deaths in road accidents fell slightly by 1 per cent to 3,201 in 2005 from 3,221 in 2004. However, the number of fatalities has remained fairly constant over the last ten years."
Interestingly, the RoSPA website states that the reduction in deaths "proves" the effectiveness of Safety Cameras, without considering any other factors whatsoever.
A Sir Humphrey-esque conjugation of the verb 'to prove' would run: "The total number of deaths in road accidents fell slightly by 1 per cent to 3,201 in 2005 from 3,221 in 2004. However, the number of fatalities has remained fairly constant over the last ten years."
Interestingly, the RoSPA website states that the reduction in deaths "proves" the effectiveness of Safety Cameras, without considering any other factors whatsoever.
I prove
You spin
He, she or it lies
Or as he said in 'A Question of Loyalty', "A good speech is one where nobody can prove its contents are lies."
Benjamin Disraeli is popularly attributed [but see footnote] as having said it earlier and slightly differently: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Other quotations on statistics that PH readers (and the Scamera Pratnerships) might do well to consider are:
"Statistics are like women; mirrors of purest virture and truth, or like whores to use as one pleases." - Theodore Billroth
"Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable." - Anon
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
"Do not put your faith in what statistics say until you have carefully considered what they do not say." - William Watt
Streaky
Also attributed to: Mark Twain (in 1904, claiming to be quoting Disraeli, but probably interpreting Lord Courtney's (q.v.) reference to "Wise Statesman" as being to Disraeli), Henry Du Pre Labouchere (at unknown date), Leonard Courtney (in 1895 - with the words: "We may quote to one another with a chuckle the words of the Wise Statesman, 'lies ...'" ), Cornelia (Mrs Andrew) Crosse (in 1892) and an M Price MD (but most probably quoting it).
There is also some thought that this is a list of only two: lies and statistics; and that the "damned lies" was originally parenthetical cursing, vis: "Lies - damned lies - and statistics" (put the emphasis appropriately).
When it comes to court, Judge Lord Young is reported as saying: "There are four classes of witnesses - liars, damned liars, Expert Witnesses and Sir Henry Littlejohn." (Sir Henry was a Police Surgeon, MOH and Prof. Forensic Medince at Edinburgh University). As someone who has appeared as an Expert Witness, the positioning gives me some concern: but then I think of the various testimony of Professor Sir Roy Meadows and his misuse of statistics ... - S
Liebchen ... your finger ist on the pulse as usual.
Expert witnesses ... they are only "expert" because of what they read in their peer-reviewed tomes... but that does not necessarily mean they understand what they read.
But ist very true of the bikini ...the one which ladies like me wear.. revealing just enough to suggest und let imagination have shock waves
But I would say chavettes choice of swimwear ... hide the truth in a swelter of superifcially true but irrelevant "factoids"
Und "Yes Minister/Prime Minister"
I think possibly the best black but true comedy of all time. I loves the one about the European sausages .. und the one about the drinkies at the Embassy ... und the devious machinations of them civil "servants" ... turbobloke said:
bob1179 said:
The United Soviet Socialist Republic of Blair
A dour outpost of the Federal European Union of Neocommunist States.
Bring on Europol, we can't wait for the jackboots to arrive
Won't be for some time - have they started to look at uniforms ( can bet the one style cooks or freezes all will be used) or specify the "Europolice car" -designed by committee --so the first few years will be taken up deciding on the driver side
who me said:
turbobloke said:
bob1179 said:
The United Soviet Socialist Republic of Blair
A dour outpost of the Federal European Union of Neocommunist States.
Bring on Europol, we can't wait for the jackboots to arrive
Won't be for some time - have they started to look at uniforms ( can bet the one style cooks or freezes all will be used) or specify the "Europolice car" -designed by committee --so the first few years will be taken up deciding on the driver side
who me said:
turbobloke said:
bob1179 said:
The United Soviet Socialist Republic of Blair
A dour outpost of the Federal European Union of Neocommunist States.
Bring on Europol, we can't wait for the jackboots to arrive
Won't be for some time - have they started to look at uniforms ( can bet the one style cooks or freezes all will be used) or specify the "Europolice car" -designed by committee --so the first few years will be taken up deciding on the driver side
Surely that would be a foregone conclusion?
In the People's Republic of European Union, the Left side must always dominate. It's written in the rules.
woodlands said:
Reading today in the BBC website, it would appear that some interesting stats are available regarding alcohol related deaths.
Deaths rose to 8,386 in 2005 compared to 4,144 in 2001, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.
Deaths rose to 8,386 in 2005 compared to 4,144 in 2001, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.
Pretty weird figures. Did anyone find it on the BBC website? I'd like to dig a little deeper, but all I have to go on is this forum post.
safespeed said:
woodlands said:
Reading today in the BBC website, it would appear that some interesting stats are available regarding alcohol related deaths.
Deaths rose to 8,386 in 2005 compared to 4,144 in 2001, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.
Deaths rose to 8,386 in 2005 compared to 4,144 in 2001, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.
Pretty weird figures. Did anyone find it on the BBC website? I'd like to dig a little deeper, but all I have to go on is this forum post.
Here you go Paul
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/612
The data is available here:
www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=14496
Edited by Prof Beard on Tuesday 26th December 16:18
woodlands said:
In response to this trend, the government allowed pubs to open for longer. Not the most logical move,one must admit.
Britain has long had a problem with binge drinking. Europe, on the whole, hasn't.
Britain has long had restrictions on when alcohol can be served. Europe, on the whole, hasn't.
So, British logic is to keep our opening hours the same or even make them shorter. Thankfully though, common sense prevailed and joy of joys some, and I stress *some*, of our restrictions have been lifted. For the first time in my 48 years, as far as drinking is concerned I am treated something near to how adults are normally treated.
You have to say, supping under Labour is a million times better than supping under the tories.
Think of how it was before: Closing time was 10.30 or 11pm, so everyone had just a couple or three hours or so to have a good drink. Then everyone gets chucked out onto the streets at the same time, and nobody seemed able to appreciate that obviously that was a stupid thing to do.
There are some aspects of British life that tell me we are amongst the most stupid people in the world. Our attitude to alcohol has been one of these, and now these stats, if true, show that the attitudes adopted by the authorities to road safety in recent years are also incredibly stupid.
I mean, is driving so incredibly safe that there are more than twice as many people dieing through drink than from driving?
Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 26th December 18:36
heebeegeetee said:
Britain has long had a problem with binge drinking. Europe, on the whole, hasn't.
Britain has long had restrictions on when alcohol can be served. Europe, on the whole, hasn't.
So, British logic is to keep our opening hours the same or even make them shorter. Thankfully though, common sense prevailed and joy of joys some, and I stress *some*, of our restrictions have been lifted. For the first time in my 48 years, as far as drinking is concerned I am treated something near to how adults are normally treated.
You have to say, supping under Labour is a million times better than supping under the tories.
Think of how it was before: Closing time was 10.30 or 11pm, so everyone had just a couple or three hours or so to have a good drink. Then everyone gets chucked out onto the streets at the same time, and nobody seemed able to appreciate that obviously that was a stupid thing to do.
There are some aspects of British life that tell me we are amongst the most stupid people in the world. Our attitude to alcohol has been one of these.
spot on
Prof Beard said:
safespeed said:
woodlands said:
Reading today in the BBC website, it would appear that some interesting stats are available regarding alcohol related deaths.
Deaths rose to 8,386 in 2005 compared to 4,144 in 2001, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.
Deaths rose to 8,386 in 2005 compared to 4,144 in 2001, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.
Pretty weird figures. Did anyone find it on the BBC website? I'd like to dig a little deeper, but all I have to go on is this forum post.
Here you go Paul
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/612
The data is available here:
www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=14496
Edited by Prof Beard on Tuesday 26th December 16:18
Ahh. Thanks. Not road deaths then. That makes much more sense than what I'd assumed.
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