Discussion
My brother is expecting his first NIP after driving 35mph in a 30mph zone in a hire car. He's off abroad next few weeks and asked what documents need to be signed and submitted to DVLA (?)
Setting aside the question of receiving the NIP on time (which is v.well discussed here) I presume he needs to send:
1) completed and signed NIP ?
2) his paper driving licence and card driving licence to be returned ot DVLA for endorsement of 3 points?
3) a cheque for 60quid ?
Any other things expected - thanks in advance.
Setting aside the question of receiving the NIP on time (which is v.well discussed here) I presume he needs to send:
1) completed and signed NIP ?
2) his paper driving licence and card driving licence to be returned ot DVLA for endorsement of 3 points?
3) a cheque for 60quid ?
Any other things expected - thanks in advance.
chrisgr31 said:
As it was a hire car the intia time limit of 2 weeks will not apply to him! The NP will initially go to the Hire Company who will respond that the car was rented to him, and then the NIP will be re-issued to him, but there is, I understand, no time limit on that bit.
Spot on Chris but along with the NOIP will be the request to name driver form which has to be signed and returned within 28 days of being 'served' otherwise offence committed.....
At that time will be opportunity if offence accepted to send the DL for Mags Clerks to endorse and contribution to HMG coffers.
dvd
The Hire Co would name the driver according to their records on the 172 form and forward to SCP.
But this is not concrete as to who the driver was at the time of the alleged offence. So,SCP to get that signed bit of paper that they can use as evidence as to who(m) the driver was, they will send 172 to the person named by the Hire Co.
At the same time AFAIAA in anticipation of a 'cough' they will give advice to send DL and Counterpart/and 60 to Mags Clerks Office, who will enter the 3 points,inform DVLA and return Licence to holder.
dvd
But this is not concrete as to who the driver was at the time of the alleged offence. So,SCP to get that signed bit of paper that they can use as evidence as to who(m) the driver was, they will send 172 to the person named by the Hire Co.
At the same time AFAIAA in anticipation of a 'cough' they will give advice to send DL and Counterpart/and 60 to Mags Clerks Office, who will enter the 3 points,inform DVLA and return Licence to holder.
dvd
Probably shouldn't say this, but if the person alleged to be driving is going abroad for any length of time and the NiP is totally, and I mean totally, ignored the problem will probably go away. We had an employee who was driving a company car some 4 years ago and he got 'pinged' by a camera in Northants. We filled in the NiP as required as we were the keepers, the only information missing weas the date of birth and licence number of the driver, as we simply didn't know it. By the time another NiP was sent to the driver he had left his flat in London and moved to France to work for 12 months, not for us I might add.
Someone we know also shared the flat which our former employee left and he said that several 'official' letters arrived which were sent back marked 'gone to France'. No-one ever followed up at the former London address or with us, the vehicle keepers and, so far as I know, there was no further action.
I'm sure that VH or Dwight will tell us otherwise, but there seems to be a strong feeling that as there are so many NiP's sent out, ignoring them has a better than evens chance of no further action. Of course, there will be a risk of conviction under S172, but that's a chance one might feel worth taking. It seems, and my buddy who is in 'the Job' confirms this, that one county police service is not too pleased to be asked to chase up another county's NiP's and, for example, Northants are unlikely to send an officer from there to the Met area to chase up an NiP which has been returned marked 'Gone to France'.
However, Dwight and VH, your thoughts on this would be appreciated, if you are able to comment from a 'reality' point of view and not just from a 'this is the law' standpoint. Would 'Brainstorm' send an officer from N. Wales to, say, Suffolk to chase up an unresponded to NiP for 37 in a 30?
Someone we know also shared the flat which our former employee left and he said that several 'official' letters arrived which were sent back marked 'gone to France'. No-one ever followed up at the former London address or with us, the vehicle keepers and, so far as I know, there was no further action.
I'm sure that VH or Dwight will tell us otherwise, but there seems to be a strong feeling that as there are so many NiP's sent out, ignoring them has a better than evens chance of no further action. Of course, there will be a risk of conviction under S172, but that's a chance one might feel worth taking. It seems, and my buddy who is in 'the Job' confirms this, that one county police service is not too pleased to be asked to chase up another county's NiP's and, for example, Northants are unlikely to send an officer from there to the Met area to chase up an NiP which has been returned marked 'Gone to France'.
However, Dwight and VH, your thoughts on this would be appreciated, if you are able to comment from a 'reality' point of view and not just from a 'this is the law' standpoint. Would 'Brainstorm' send an officer from N. Wales to, say, Suffolk to chase up an unresponded to NiP for 37 in a 30?
It all boils down to the resolve of the SCP/Police Peter.
Herr Hughes has promised a heavier and more enquiring hand against those that try to create loopholes in the system and the Press have reported some success which has resulted in prison sentences. Obviously in this current culture of v.f.m. then some NOIP's will be filed WPB.
But all is not lightness as legislation is nigh harmonising such matters so that offenders living abroad in the EEC will be accountable. Just how they will attack this I wait with baited breath. Do not forget also the ECHR judgement, which if in favour of Idris Fransic, will I would predict, be followed quickly by legisltaion making the Reg Keeper responsible for offences committed like parking.
You know and I am not going to state, there is a method to that would cause utter chaos to the system but it isn't going to happen.
dvd
Herr Hughes has promised a heavier and more enquiring hand against those that try to create loopholes in the system and the Press have reported some success which has resulted in prison sentences. Obviously in this current culture of v.f.m. then some NOIP's will be filed WPB.
But all is not lightness as legislation is nigh harmonising such matters so that offenders living abroad in the EEC will be accountable. Just how they will attack this I wait with baited breath. Do not forget also the ECHR judgement, which if in favour of Idris Fransic, will I would predict, be followed quickly by legisltaion making the Reg Keeper responsible for offences committed like parking.
You know and I am not going to state, there is a method to that would cause utter chaos to the system but it isn't going to happen.
dvd
Thanks DvD,
Maybe to some extent it comes down to the politics and PR implications. If the Police are seen to be spending considerable time and effort to chase up those not responding to NioPs for, say, 36 mph in a 30 limit, the subsequent adverse publicity does the police service no good in PR terms and if the politicians insist this is done in a, shall we say, totalitarian manner, it bodes badly for police/public relations in the longer term.
Personally I doubt the EEC's ability to 'harmonise' traffic penalty applications and collections across the entire EU. How would the Rumanian authorities pursue a UK driver alleged to have been speeding in Rumania if the alleged offender insisted he/she was not guilty. It's s complete minefield of Human Rights issues which 'clever'lawyers will exploit for their own ends (i.e.: their incomes). Anyway, just how much effort is going to be expended by a UK county Police Service responding to a request to follow-up on a driver alleged to have driven at 60 kph in a 50 kph limit in Bucharest?
As you say, there are things which would completely 'throw' the system, but we won't go into them here. For anyone to get banned from a 'totting-up' is completely unnecessary when all it takes is a bit of personal effort and a few quid to avoid it completely if done before the event, not after the points have been accrued, if you see what I mean, and I'm sure you do.
Maybe to some extent it comes down to the politics and PR implications. If the Police are seen to be spending considerable time and effort to chase up those not responding to NioPs for, say, 36 mph in a 30 limit, the subsequent adverse publicity does the police service no good in PR terms and if the politicians insist this is done in a, shall we say, totalitarian manner, it bodes badly for police/public relations in the longer term.
Personally I doubt the EEC's ability to 'harmonise' traffic penalty applications and collections across the entire EU. How would the Rumanian authorities pursue a UK driver alleged to have been speeding in Rumania if the alleged offender insisted he/she was not guilty. It's s complete minefield of Human Rights issues which 'clever'lawyers will exploit for their own ends (i.e.: their incomes). Anyway, just how much effort is going to be expended by a UK county Police Service responding to a request to follow-up on a driver alleged to have driven at 60 kph in a 50 kph limit in Bucharest?
As you say, there are things which would completely 'throw' the system, but we won't go into them here. For anyone to get banned from a 'totting-up' is completely unnecessary when all it takes is a bit of personal effort and a few quid to avoid it completely if done before the event, not after the points have been accrued, if you see what I mean, and I'm sure you do.
Dwight VanDriver said:
The Hire Co would name the driver according to their records on the 172 form and forward to SCP.
But this is not concrete as to who the driver was at the time of the alleged offence. So,SCP to get that signed bit of paper that they can use as evidence as to who(m) the driver was, they will send 172 to the person named by the Hire Co.
At the same time AFAIAA in anticipation of a 'cough' they will give advice to send DL and Counterpart/and 60 to Mags Clerks Office, who will enter the 3 points,inform DVLA and return Licence to holder.
dvd
But this is not concrete as to who the driver was at the time of the alleged offence. So,SCP to get that signed bit of paper that they can use as evidence as to who(m) the driver was, they will send 172 to the person named by the Hire Co.
At the same time AFAIAA in anticipation of a 'cough' they will give advice to send DL and Counterpart/and 60 to Mags Clerks Office, who will enter the 3 points,inform DVLA and return Licence to holder.
dvd
DVD and others - thanks for comments so far. On above a point of practical detail - do they need both the paper driving licence and the DL photocard to be sent to the Mag Office etc ? ta
vonhosen said:
The licence is both parts (photocard & counterpart).
You send both, but don't send the plastic wallet.
You send both, but don't send the plastic wallet.
Von, not the right thread, but I cant be bothered starting a new one. Whose
stupid idea was the two part driving license, and why can't I order and pay for a lost replacement online? Not ranting at you, but you might have a clue? randlemarcus said:
vonhosen said:
The licence is both parts (photocard & counterpart).
You send both, but don't send the plastic wallet.
You send both, but don't send the plastic wallet.
Von, not the right thread, but I cant be bothered starting a new one. Whose
stupid idea was the two part driving license, and why can't I order and pay for a lost replacement online? Not ranting at you, but you might have a clue? It's not a service offered, but IIRC you can get the forms sent out to your address from online.
vonhosen said:
It's not a service offered, but IIRC you can get the forms sent out to your address from online.
But, but... I'd like you to click the button marked "Print" on a form that's exactly the same as last time, and I'm glad to give you the best part of twenty quid for it. What's that? You'd like me to click this button so you can send me the forms? Glad you have a final salary pension, mate, I'd hate to think of you actually having to do some
work for a change. Monkeys. My company do a lot of the backend systems work for this bunch of
idiots, and its a project I work very hard to avoid.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff