Driving Test Shake Up For Young
Discussion
From the Times on Line und heard on BBC Radio News too
[quote=Times Paper]
Changing Gears
More restrictions are needed on young male drivers
It is a sobering statistic early in a new year, but, on recent form, more than a thousand young drivers will be killed or seriously injured in the course of 2007. The accident rate for young drivers, especially young male drivers, is wildly disproportionate when compared with older motorists, and still striking when contrasted with women of the same age. Furthermore, the greater the number of young people travelling together as driver and passengers, the more likely is the chance of an accident when compared with an older group of people. Speed is often the cause of tragedy, but it is sometimes just a matter of inexperience. New drivers are often unfamiliar with the road at night and have no notion of operating on a motorway until first setting out on their own.
This is not acceptable. Stephen Ladyman, the Road Safety Minister, is right to contend, as he does in his interview with The Times today, that more rules need to be imposed. In Britain new motorists “first pass the test, then learn to drive”. The current driving test rewards young men for being technically competent enough to manage the requirements asked, but ignores that their attitudes might be quite inappropriate for the road. Overseas experience suggests that it is possible to cut the number of deaths and accidents substantially if a fresh approach is taken. Ministers appear to be open-minded on what strategy is best. The Department for Transport is, nevertheless, interested in a “deal” under which young people start learning to drive at an earlier age — perhaps 16 — but must record many more hours behind the wheel (100 or more) before being permitted to take their test. Sweden has adopted this formula and has far lower fatalities and injuries as a result. There are, nevertheless, some difficulties with this. At present rates, anyone learning to drive with a professional instructor will pay far more to acquire his or her licence if the 100-hour norm is accepted. That prospect might lead teenagers to look to friends and relatives to teach them rather than to those better qualified. This might be averted if driving could be integrated into the school curriculum, but it is hard to imagine how this might be done at the moment, given the many demands on the crowded timetable. There is also the real risk that driving records could be faked. Other options should be considered. There are a number of possibilities. These include making the present test much harder, so that failure at the first attempt is the acknowledged norm. In Germany, young people can hold a licence at 17 but cannot drive alone until 18. Other countries impose night-time curfews on young drivers or limit the number of passengers they can carry. All of these schemes deserve serious investigation. Pilot projects should be contemplated. Britain cannot continue with the status quo. After the age of 25, British drivers are as safe as those in other countries. Fatalities are concen-trated at the young end of the age spectrum. It should not be assumed that teenage males, in particular, have a “right to drive” when they are doing so much damage to themselves, their passengers and those who have the misfortune to share the road with them. The combination of more hours behind the wheel before being allowed to go solo, a more robust test and greater restrictions on young men might be sensible. Something must be done.
I note they want to decrease age at which they get licence und spend more time on acquiring necessary skills.
My cousin Jessika (who ist Headteacher) has rolling programme from Year 7 to 13 whereby she includes Cycling und Highway Code und Green Cross und study of Cycle Craft as baseline text book for Year 7-10 und cycling lesson form part of the Sports curriculum ..und PSE curriculum ist how she juggle the time factor apparently
For Year 11-13 .. they have DVD on Driving Theory und Hazard Aware und she promote COAST of course 
She also include basic car mechanics as part of this.
But this article does not say what they plan.. I hope ist going to be test which include motorway type und rural road type drive und a requirement to drive in dusk during lessons.
I cannot see this on here .. but have not checked "Motoring News" .. yet :roll:
[quote=Times Paper]
Changing Gears
More restrictions are needed on young male drivers
It is a sobering statistic early in a new year, but, on recent form, more than a thousand young drivers will be killed or seriously injured in the course of 2007. The accident rate for young drivers, especially young male drivers, is wildly disproportionate when compared with older motorists, and still striking when contrasted with women of the same age. Furthermore, the greater the number of young people travelling together as driver and passengers, the more likely is the chance of an accident when compared with an older group of people. Speed is often the cause of tragedy, but it is sometimes just a matter of inexperience. New drivers are often unfamiliar with the road at night and have no notion of operating on a motorway until first setting out on their own.
This is not acceptable. Stephen Ladyman, the Road Safety Minister, is right to contend, as he does in his interview with The Times today, that more rules need to be imposed. In Britain new motorists “first pass the test, then learn to drive”. The current driving test rewards young men for being technically competent enough to manage the requirements asked, but ignores that their attitudes might be quite inappropriate for the road. Overseas experience suggests that it is possible to cut the number of deaths and accidents substantially if a fresh approach is taken. Ministers appear to be open-minded on what strategy is best. The Department for Transport is, nevertheless, interested in a “deal” under which young people start learning to drive at an earlier age — perhaps 16 — but must record many more hours behind the wheel (100 or more) before being permitted to take their test. Sweden has adopted this formula and has far lower fatalities and injuries as a result. There are, nevertheless, some difficulties with this. At present rates, anyone learning to drive with a professional instructor will pay far more to acquire his or her licence if the 100-hour norm is accepted. That prospect might lead teenagers to look to friends and relatives to teach them rather than to those better qualified. This might be averted if driving could be integrated into the school curriculum, but it is hard to imagine how this might be done at the moment, given the many demands on the crowded timetable. There is also the real risk that driving records could be faked. Other options should be considered. There are a number of possibilities. These include making the present test much harder, so that failure at the first attempt is the acknowledged norm. In Germany, young people can hold a licence at 17 but cannot drive alone until 18. Other countries impose night-time curfews on young drivers or limit the number of passengers they can carry. All of these schemes deserve serious investigation. Pilot projects should be contemplated. Britain cannot continue with the status quo. After the age of 25, British drivers are as safe as those in other countries. Fatalities are concen-trated at the young end of the age spectrum. It should not be assumed that teenage males, in particular, have a “right to drive” when they are doing so much damage to themselves, their passengers and those who have the misfortune to share the road with them. The combination of more hours behind the wheel before being allowed to go solo, a more robust test and greater restrictions on young men might be sensible. Something must be done.
I note they want to decrease age at which they get licence und spend more time on acquiring necessary skills.
My cousin Jessika (who ist Headteacher) has rolling programme from Year 7 to 13 whereby she includes Cycling und Highway Code und Green Cross und study of Cycle Craft as baseline text book for Year 7-10 und cycling lesson form part of the Sports curriculum ..und PSE curriculum ist how she juggle the time factor apparently
For Year 11-13 .. they have DVD on Driving Theory und Hazard Aware und she promote COAST of course She also include basic car mechanics as part of this. But this article does not say what they plan.. I hope ist going to be test which include motorway type und rural road type drive und a requirement to drive in dusk during lessons.
I cannot see this on here .. but have not checked "Motoring News" .. yet :roll:
I could agree with making the Driving Test harder. Difficult to specifically include motorway driving as for rural students access to a motorway for practice could be very difficult.
The thing is you can make the test near impossible and all it will do is make young men work harder to pass it...and being determined and technically interested they will work hard and manage quite well. This is probably good thing in and of itself - but it won't change their attitude behind the wheel.
If you want to affect their attitudes to safety you need to include a course specifically designed to do that. Show them the horrific consequences of a poor attitude to driving. Needs to be done far younger than 17 too. I'd start at around 15. Should be part of the school curriculum.
The thing is you can make the test near impossible and all it will do is make young men work harder to pass it...and being determined and technically interested they will work hard and manage quite well. This is probably good thing in and of itself - but it won't change their attitude behind the wheel.
If you want to affect their attitudes to safety you need to include a course specifically designed to do that. Show them the horrific consequences of a poor attitude to driving. Needs to be done far younger than 17 too. I'd start at around 15. Should be part of the school curriculum.
Julian64 said:
Young men must start their driving life on scooters/mopeds. Should only be allowed into a car once they have managed to stay on a bike over the course of a year or so.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
And you think that putting youngsters with bad attitudes towards road safety onto bikes will make them SAFER?
I think I would prefer to see them concentrate on improving the driving of those who have licences already thanks. Let's start with roundabouts, those lanes are there for a reason. The inside lane, you can use it to... Courses like that may help. Oh, and indicators, it isn't an offence to use them.
GreenV8S said:
Julian64 said:
Young men must start their driving life on scooters/mopeds. Should only be allowed into a car once they have managed to stay on a bike over the course of a year or so.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
And you think that putting youngsters with bad attitudes towards road safety onto bikes will make them SAFER?
I think you misunderstand. I was trying to make life safer for the rest of us.
The attitudinal problem that most young men have is two fold. One is that they think they know it all, two is that they think they are indestructible.
Hopefully falling off the bike when its cold outside, at relatively low speed compared with putting them straight into a moddycoddled two tonne of metalwork would be an improvement to both these. Nothing teaches you road awareness and self vunerablitiy better than a bike in winter. Lessons you will carry long after you stop using a bike.
Then all that will be left to do is teach one generation of car drivers to expect loonies on scooters.
Edited by Julian64 on Tuesday 2nd January 10:37
GreenV8S said:
Julian64 said:
Young men must start their driving life on scooters/mopeds. Should only be allowed into a car once they have managed to stay on a bike over the course of a year or so.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
And you think that putting youngsters with bad attitudes towards road safety onto bikes will make them SAFER?
No, but it will get them killed quicker and they will be in less dangerous (to us) vehicles.
flemke said:
What's wrong with raising the minimum age for a driving licence?
It would automatically shift the driving population away from the riskiest group, save lives, lower insurance rates, and, as a bonus, reduce the congestion that the Government claim is taking over our lives.
It would automatically shift the driving population away from the riskiest group, save lives, lower insurance rates, and, as a bonus, reduce the congestion that the Government claim is taking over our lives.
Perhaps because not all young people are high risk.
I think if they just drummed into peoples heads that there's a hell of alot of wnakers out there on the roads it would help imensely. My father taught me to treat every other driver as if they were a moron and how right he was although I have to say I found that out for myself over time.
Julian64 said:
GreenV8S said:
Julian64 said:
Young men must start their driving life on scooters/mopeds. Should only be allowed into a car once they have managed to stay on a bike over the course of a year or so.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
And you think that putting youngsters with bad attitudes towards road safety onto bikes will make them SAFER?
I think you misunderstand. I was trying to make life safer for the rest of us.
The attitudinal problem that most young men have is two fold. One is that they think they know it all, two is that they think they are indestructible.
Hopefully falling off the bike when its cold outside, at relatively low speed compared with putting them straight into a moddycoddled two tonne of metalwork would be an improvement to both these. Nothing teaches you road awareness and self vunerablitiy better than a bike in winter. Lessons you will carry long after you stop using a bike.
Then all that will be left to do is teach one generation of car drivers to expect loonies on scooters.
Edited by Julian64 on Tuesday 2nd January 10:37
worked for me 3 years on bike of various cc taught me far more than cars but then it didn't stop me running into the back of two cars after i'd passed my car test in mother's metro, bikes are just more "flickable" than a mini metro
still, went onto to do iam and rospa passing at 21 in a car
Julian64 said:
GreenV8S said:
Julian64 said:
Young men must start their driving life on scooters/mopeds. Should only be allowed into a car once they have managed to stay on a bike over the course of a year or so.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
You can't learn that experience/road awareness from a teacher.
And you think that putting youngsters with bad attitudes towards road safety onto bikes will make them SAFER?
I think you misunderstand. I was trying to make life safer for the rest of us.
The attitudinal problem that most young men have is two fold. One is that they think they know it all, two is that they think they are indestructible.
Hopefully falling off the bike when its cold outside, at relatively low speed compared with putting them straight into a moddycoddled two tonne of metalwork would be an improvement to both these. Nothing teaches you road awareness and self vunerablitiy better than a bike in winter. Lessons you will carry long after you stop using a bike.
Then all that will be left to do is teach one generation of car drivers to expect loonies on scooters.
JoolzB said:
I think if they just drummed into peoples heads that there's a hell of alot of wnakers out there on the roads it would help imensely. My father taught me to treat every other driver as if they were a moron and how right he was although I have to say I found that out for myself over time.
It’s good to teach people to treat other drivers with caution but I don’t think that would help with this problem which is accidents caused by the young drivers themselves.
WildCat said:
But this article does not say what they plan.. I hope ist going to be test which include motorway type und rural road type drive und a requirement to drive in dusk during lessons.
As Don pointed out, there are some parts of the UK from which you have to travel quite a distance to reach a motorway. Maybe dual-carriageways could be used in areas where a motorway is not easily accessible.
Also, how easy is it to reach rural roads if you live somewhere like central London (genuine question; I don't know)? Lastly, in the middle of summer in northern England sunset is at 20:45.
I'm not saying the measures you suggest are a bad thing, but they would probably make learning to drive significantly more difficult and more costly for some people.
flemke said:
What's wrong with raising the minimum age for a driving licence?
It would automatically shift the driving population away from the riskiest group, save lives, lower insurance rates, and, as a bonus, reduce the congestion that the Government claim is taking over our lives.
It would automatically shift the driving population away from the riskiest group, save lives, lower insurance rates, and, as a bonus, reduce the congestion that the Government claim is taking over our lives.
Maybe those in the youngest age group are the riskiest because they are necessarily all inexperienced. Raising the minimum driving age would mean that the most inexperienced drivers are concentrated in an older age group, a group that might become equally as risky.
SamHH said:
flemke said:
What's wrong with raising the minimum age for a driving licence?
It would automatically shift the driving population away from the riskiest group, save lives, lower insurance rates, and, as a bonus, reduce the congestion that the Government claim is taking over our lives.
It would automatically shift the driving population away from the riskiest group, save lives, lower insurance rates, and, as a bonus, reduce the congestion that the Government claim is taking over our lives.
Maybe those in the youngest age group are the riskiest because they are necessarily all inexperienced. Raising the minimum driving age would mean that the most inexperienced drivers are concentrated in an older age group, a group that might become equally as risky.
Yep,you'd still have an inexperienced although older group.What age would you need to raise it to to avoid testosterone fuelled problems?
SamHH said:
flemke said:
What's wrong with raising the minimum age for a driving licence?
It would automatically shift the driving population away from the riskiest group, save lives, lower insurance rates, and, as a bonus, reduce the congestion that the Government claim is taking over our lives.
It would automatically shift the driving population away from the riskiest group, save lives, lower insurance rates, and, as a bonus, reduce the congestion that the Government claim is taking over our lives.
Maybe those in the youngest age group are the riskiest because they are necessarily all inexperienced. Raising the minimum driving age would mean that the most inexperienced drivers are concentrated in an older age group, a group that might become equally as risky.
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