Is This Tactic Good Policing? Patrolling No Camera
Discussion
This article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/so states that the Police are using unmarked cars to patrol the A23 due to a number of serious including some fatal accidents. In fact there was another one at the weekend involving Mr Majeed well known in the area for his love of fast cars, and contraversial ownership of Crawley Football Club.
The question is if cameras are so successful why are they using unmarked cars to patrol the road? Must admit I prefer the dea of a police patrol to a camera, and whilst I don't drive the road daily I know it well enough to wonder why it attracts the number of serious accidents.
The question is if cameras are so successful why are they using unmarked cars to patrol the road? Must admit I prefer the dea of a police patrol to a camera, and whilst I don't drive the road daily I know it well enough to wonder why it attracts the number of serious accidents.
AARONM3 said:
All for actually having proper police out on the roads but I wonder why you should need unmarked cars plus big signs telling folks that there are such vehicles operating. Why not just have the fully marked up traffic pol cars out there?
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Marked cars can't cover very much of the road network at any one time.
Knowing there are unmarked cars out there observing is an incentive for people to behave themselves not only when they can see it's a Police car, but at other times also.
vonhosen said:
AARONM3 said:
All for actually having proper police out on the roads but I wonder why you should need unmarked cars plus big signs telling folks that there are such vehicles operating. Why not just have the fully marked up traffic pol cars out there?
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Marked cars can't cover very much of the road network at any one time.
Knowing there are unmarked cars out there observing is an incentive for people to behave themselves not only when they can see it's a Police car, but at other times also.
Problem is that most of the unmarked traffic cars are relatively obvious... how about using some of the non traffic unmarked cars, and driving them erratically?
imbecile said:
vonhosen said:
AARONM3 said:
All for actually having proper police out on the roads but I wonder why you should need unmarked cars plus big signs telling folks that there are such vehicles operating. Why not just have the fully marked up traffic pol cars out there?
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Marked cars can't cover very much of the road network at any one time.
Knowing there are unmarked cars out there observing is an incentive for people to behave themselves not only when they can see it's a Police car, but at other times also.
Problem is that most of the unmarked traffic cars are relatively obvious... how about using some of the non traffic unmarked cars, and driving them erratically?
Doesn't matter what unmarked car you are in. It's like shooting fish in a barrel (if you are that way inclined).
vonhosen said:
imbecile said:
vonhosen said:
AARONM3 said:
All for actually having proper police out on the roads but I wonder why you should need unmarked cars plus big signs telling folks that there are such vehicles operating. Why not just have the fully marked up traffic pol cars out there?
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Marked cars can't cover very much of the road network at any one time.
Knowing there are unmarked cars out there observing is an incentive for people to behave themselves not only when they can see it's a Police car, but at other times also.
Problem is that most of the unmarked traffic cars are relatively obvious... how about using some of the non traffic unmarked cars, and driving them erratically?
Doesn't matter what unmarked car you are in. It's like shooting fish in a barrel (if you are that way inclined).
Really? I see technical transgressions constantly, but I don't see exceptionally dangerous driving more often than about once an hour, depending upon the road.
imbecile said:
vonhosen said:
imbecile said:
vonhosen said:
AARONM3 said:
All for actually having proper police out on the roads but I wonder why you should need unmarked cars plus big signs telling folks that there are such vehicles operating. Why not just have the fully marked up traffic pol cars out there?
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Marked cars can't cover very much of the road network at any one time.
Knowing there are unmarked cars out there observing is an incentive for people to behave themselves not only when they can see it's a Police car, but at other times also.
Problem is that most of the unmarked traffic cars are relatively obvious... how about using some of the non traffic unmarked cars, and driving them erratically?
Doesn't matter what unmarked car you are in. It's like shooting fish in a barrel (if you are that way inclined).
Really? I see technical transgressions constantly, but I don't see exceptionally dangerous driving more often than about once an hour, depending upon the road.
Who said anything about only reporting people for "exceptionally" dangerous actions ?
You can find yourself in court for unacceptable actions/behaviour (unacceptable either defined by there being a specific offence or in the opinion of the officer). If it was only exceptionally dangerous actions/behaviour we'd only have the one road traffic offence on the statutes.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 11th January 18:23
vonhosen said:
imbecile said:
vonhosen said:
imbecile said:
vonhosen said:
AARONM3 said:
All for actually having proper police out on the roads but I wonder why you should need unmarked cars plus big signs telling folks that there are such vehicles operating. Why not just have the fully marked up traffic pol cars out there?
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Marked cars can't cover very much of the road network at any one time.
Knowing there are unmarked cars out there observing is an incentive for people to behave themselves not only when they can see it's a Police car, but at other times also.
Problem is that most of the unmarked traffic cars are relatively obvious... how about using some of the non traffic unmarked cars, and driving them erratically?
Doesn't matter what unmarked car you are in. It's like shooting fish in a barrel (if you are that way inclined).
Really? I see technical transgressions constantly, but I don't see exceptionally dangerous driving more often than about once an hour, depending upon the road.
Who said anything about only reporting people for "exceptionally" dangerous actions ?
You can find yourself in court for unacceptable actions/behaviour (unacceptable either defined by there being a specific offence or in the opinion of the officer). If it was only exceptionally dangerous actions/behaviour we'd only have the one road traffic offence on the statutes.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 11th January 18:23
Noone did, I just assumed we were talking about very naughty fish
imbecile said:
vonhosen said:
imbecile said:
vonhosen said:
imbecile said:
vonhosen said:
AARONM3 said:
All for actually having proper police out on the roads but I wonder why you should need unmarked cars plus big signs telling folks that there are such vehicles operating. Why not just have the fully marked up traffic pol cars out there?
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Marked cars can't cover very much of the road network at any one time.
Knowing there are unmarked cars out there observing is an incentive for people to behave themselves not only when they can see it's a Police car, but at other times also.
Problem is that most of the unmarked traffic cars are relatively obvious... how about using some of the non traffic unmarked cars, and driving them erratically?
Doesn't matter what unmarked car you are in. It's like shooting fish in a barrel (if you are that way inclined).
Really? I see technical transgressions constantly, but I don't see exceptionally dangerous driving more often than about once an hour, depending upon the road.
Who said anything about only reporting people for "exceptionally" dangerous actions ?
You can find yourself in court for unacceptable actions/behaviour (unacceptable either defined by there being a specific offence or in the opinion of the officer). If it was only exceptionally dangerous actions/behaviour we'd only have the one road traffic offence on the statutes.
Noone did, I just assumed we were talking about very naughty fish
Can I just remind people of the great Dibble experiment. For reasons which escape me now I do recall our Dibs had a shift with no discretion given. Any offence would result in a pull and offender being dealt with. Seem to recall he got no further than 1/2 mile from the nick at any point in shift.
And one exceptionally dangerous incident per hour? Really! Visions of salmon jumping over a weir is what it is.
vonhosen said:
...If it was only exceptionally dangerous actions/behaviour we'd only have the one road traffic offence on the statutes.
That seems strangely attractive to me
. At least we'd know where we were. And it would focus on what's important rather than just on what can be measured. But it would require that the driving test was preceeded by an attitude test. Apparently this government has introduced an average of 1 new law per day over the last 10 years. But of course "ignorance is no defence" is it?
vonhosen said:
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Well then put more Police Cars out there and try to actually prevent things rather than trying to catch offenders after the offence, or do we just want to prosecute more and educate less?....... 
catso said:
vonhosen said:
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Well then put more Police Cars out there and try to actually prevent things rather than trying to catch offenders after the offence, or do we just want to prosecute more and educate less?....... No matter how many marked cars you put out, you still need unmarked cars, so that people believe there is the chance they are being observed even if they can't see a marked Police car. That is a preventative measure.
It doesn't matter how many marked cars you put out, they will only cover a very very small fraction of our total road network at any one time & as such are limited as a preventative measure (ie only where they can physically be seen). The unmarked car could be anywhere out there in the mind of the driver. Their preventative effect is therefore over a far greater area.
If you don't believe that has an effect, why do we often see the warning threads on PH about unmarked cars working in certain areas & people desperately asking for the reg number ?
The people silly enough to only behave when they see a marked Police car (because they aren't bright enough to consider the possibility of an unmarked car) will then leave themselves open to prosecution & this acts as a way of encouraging their future compliance as they have a new found realisation for them that there really are unmarked cars out there watching.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 12th January 06:52
vonhosen said:
catso said:
vonhosen said:
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Well then put more Police Cars out there and try to actually prevent things rather than trying to catch offenders after the offence, or do we just want to prosecute more and educate less?....... No matter how many marked cars you put out, you still need unmarked cars, so that people believe there is the chance they are being observed even if they can't see a marked Police car. That is a preventative measure.
If you know any police car might just appear on the road at any one point.. as in the good ol' days ... there would always be chance of being obesrved in back of mind.
vonhosen said:
It doesn't matter how many marked cars you put out, they will only cover a very very small fraction of our total road network at any one time & as such are limited as a preventative measure (ie only where they can physically be seen). The unmarked car could be anywhere out there in the mind of the driver. Their preventative effect is therefore over a far greater area.
It work just as much for the possibility of the ubiquitous marked car.. und un marks tend to focus on certain road types und not where the true muppets und louts und even lycra louts loiter..
vonhosen said:
If you don't believe that has an effect, why do we often see the warning threads on PH about unmarked cars working in certain areas & people desperately asking for the reg number ?
On the safe stretches on motorway. Lieber Durham Force are fairly ruthless on their patch of A1(M) by all accounts .. und ist their unmarkeds (they have more than one
) doing all the donkey work on that road.. vonhosen said:
The people silly enough to only behave when they see a marked Police car (because they aren't bright enough to consider the possibility of an unmarked car) will then leave themselves open to prosecution & this acts as a way of encouraging their future compliance as they have a new found realisation for them that there really are unmarked cars out there watching.
You seem again to focus only on speeed of car... ist possible to be dangerous und still compliant with speed limit. The fact that any police car just may turn into the road should be enough to make folk out there know there ist a good possibility a policeman will notice their defective, uninsured heap...drink/drug/fatigue/illness impaired road using style.. (und not I use "road user" as cyclist und pedestrian also can be illegal)
At the moment .. we seem to have a lot of cameras which only nab someone blipping over a speed limit und CCTV cameras which fail to identify burglars und yobs who drive into cars on car parks und I was lucky no one in my passenger seat last week....else I would be in mourning und furiously und bitterly angry with it...
I would love our cops to be able to just arrest these yobs instead of pussy footing around with pee-cee nonsense such as failing to release photos of escaped murderers lest their human rights are undermined und so on on - because some pen-pushing cuckoo cop in lah-lah land of the "fast tracked academic" has no idea of what a police officer at the sharp edge und at mercy of the true thugs actually goes through when trying to establish some kind of order. At least in the USA they can rugby tackle, handcuff und lock up an abusive und "wild und kicking" history don who jaywalks as he does in England..
vonhosen said:
AARONM3 said:
All for actually having proper police out on the roads but I wonder why you should need unmarked cars plus big signs telling folks that there are such vehicles operating. Why not just have the fully marked up traffic pol cars out there?
Because there are some people who will behave themselves when they see a Police car, but not at other times.
Marked cars can't cover very much of the road network at any one time.
Knowing there are unmarked cars out there observing is an incentive for people to behave themselves not only when they can see it's a Police car, but at other times also.
Shouldn't we be driving with the knowledge (thought) that there are unmarked cars out there waiting to catch us at any time? The M23/A23 has always had unmarked cars on it, fairly regularly I see cars on the hard shoulder talking to officers from the unmarked cars.
I suppose the signs just reinfoce this. Must admit I do think the use of unmarked, or marked, cars is far better than speed cameras as it allows for the use of discretion, so people driving like idiots under or over the limit can be pulled.
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