What do you (non BiB) think "The Caution" means?
Discussion
As per the thread title, really.
There have been a few posts I have seen (can't remember whether they were here or on other fora) about not recognising the meaning of the verbal NIP, the caution, asking for a copy of PACE CoP etc etc.
So what do the non BiB on here think the caution actually means? And for those of you that don't know it off by heart...
I'm interested how (non BiB/legal type) people interpret it; I realise I'm opening a potential can of worms with regard to "Right to silence" issues, but if you could just restrict yourselves to a "translation" on this thread, that'd be super.
There have been a few posts I have seen (can't remember whether they were here or on other fora) about not recognising the meaning of the verbal NIP, the caution, asking for a copy of PACE CoP etc etc.
So what do the non BiB on here think the caution actually means? And for those of you that don't know it off by heart...
The caution is said:
"You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in Court. Anything you do say may be used in evidence"
I'm interested how (non BiB/legal type) people interpret it; I realise I'm opening a potential can of worms with regard to "Right to silence" issues, but if you could just restrict yourselves to a "translation" on this thread, that'd be super.
For me, I take the words at their literal meanings.
It is also an interesting point, the first time I was read this I did make a point in putting forward my case, as I certainly did want to rely upon it in court.
However, none of it was written down or reported in the officers statements anyway apart from six words, so in effect the whole process was merely a pointless formality IMHO.
It is also an interesting point, the first time I was read this I did make a point in putting forward my case, as I certainly did want to rely upon it in court.
However, none of it was written down or reported in the officers statements anyway apart from six words, so in effect the whole process was merely a pointless formality IMHO.
"Your right to silence has been somewhat curtailed, by a government more interested in creating minor criminals than in dealing with the fairly major ones which abound on the streets. Nonetheless you'd probably be well served by keeping your gob shut until such time as you know what the feck is going on."
jasandjules said:
Also, they need to tell you that if you do not say anything which you later rely on in court, adverse inferences may be drawn.
What if it said:
"You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in Court. Anything you do say may be used in evidence"
Would that cover that bit?
tvrgit said:
jasandjules said:
Yes, it appears I can't read...
Maybe you've just proved the point that it's not easy to understand, especially when it's spoken at the side of the road when your mind is inevitably on something else (like the trouble you're probably in)...
Oh no, it simply means I can't read tonight..... I am, well, in theory, fairly well trained in the criminal law (though I hate it with a passion)..................... If it was read out to me I would be busily running PACE through my head to see if I could get away with it...... I would be happier if I had incriminated myself before that was read out....
But yes, your point is fair, it is if read out quickly quite confusing, but rest assured, 90% of the time it is used, the subject knows it as well as Plod do, having heard it many many times before.............. If the subject doesn't understand it, then the police do have to break it down into simpler components until the subject does understand it.
vonhosen said:
tvrgit said:
Plotloss said:
Broadly speaking
You used to have a right to silence, no you dont, tough shit.
You used to have a right to silence, no you dont, tough shit.
Well the words of the caution have been the same for 30 years (I heard it often enough when I was younger!)
Actually they have changed quite a bit in the last 30 years.
The bit quoted in the OP is exactly the same!
It's no good keeping quiet at the plod shop and then trying to wriggle out of it in court when the CPS present evidence of your guilt. i.e. Not telling them your whereabouts at a given time and then arguing against a witness statement in court.......
That's my interpretation of it anyway. I sort of veiled threat/warning to fess up if you're red handed
The full American Miranda rights are a little more complete....
You have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions.
Do you understand?
KICK
Anything you do say may be used against you in a court of law.
Do you understand?
PUNCH
You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future.
Do you understand?
SLAM HEAD ON CAR BONNET
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish.
Do you understand?
HIT WITH NIGHTSTICK
If you decide to answer questions now without an attorney present you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney.
Do you understand?
HIT WITH NIGHTSTICK AGAIN
Knowing and understanding your rights as I have explained them to you, are you willing to answer my questions without an attorney present?
BRANDISH NIGHT STICK MENACINGLY
That's my interpretation of it anyway. I sort of veiled threat/warning to fess up if you're red handed
The full American Miranda rights are a little more complete....
big american copper said:
You have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions.
Do you understand?
KICK
Anything you do say may be used against you in a court of law.
Do you understand?
PUNCH
You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future.
Do you understand?
SLAM HEAD ON CAR BONNET
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish.
Do you understand?
HIT WITH NIGHTSTICK
If you decide to answer questions now without an attorney present you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney.
Do you understand?
HIT WITH NIGHTSTICK AGAIN
Knowing and understanding your rights as I have explained them to you, are you willing to answer my questions without an attorney present?
BRANDISH NIGHT STICK MENACINGLY
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