Discussion
driving home from outon park today along a 50 mph section of the A55 I noticed a Police volvo with blue lights going the other way on the other side of the carriageway. A moment or so later the same car comes past me at the speed of light. Fortunately I have seen him but its busy rush hour and theres loads of traffic on the road. Thsi Police Volvo must be doing around 120 mph through the 50 zone and beleive me, if some absent minded pensioner in a fiesta drifted out in front of him it would be curtains for literally dozens of folks.
Few miles further on I spot the same police car .. theres a car and caravan on the hard shoulder, no accident, no nothing , just a broken down car. Seems to me theres a deal of hypocrasy going on here, these blue light runs must be great fun for the cops.
Pity the b******ds are so sanctimonious about speed
Few miles further on I spot the same police car .. theres a car and caravan on the hard shoulder, no accident, no nothing , just a broken down car. Seems to me theres a deal of hypocrasy going on here, these blue light runs must be great fun for the cops.
Pity the b******ds are so sanctimonious about speed
lookrightfirst said:
its a pity they are only normally trained drivers nowadays as well, most are NOT Police advanced trained!!
that's why they are killing so many innocents!
that's why they are killing so many innocents!
You had better be able to back that comment up with hard stats.
How many pol acs have been the fault of the police and how many of them have resulted in fatals?
I have no time for people who make flippant remarks like that.
Sorry if that seems a bit harsh but you would not like it the other way around.
Hard stats please or retract the statement.
They are human and like to drive fast and safely just the same as many of us do. They have the perfect reason or excuse to do it and they take full advantage of that. You and I would do the same if we were plod.
I've been passed by police vehicles on the motorway that have made me look like I'm standing still. If the driver is competent then it isn't a problem to me, but after having been done for 86 on a clear motorway it does make me bitter, I'll admit that.
They will say they're trained and tested to do those speeds and you and I are not. But through experience we may well be as good a driver as they are, but we'll still get done for doing 86 on that same stretch of road as they were doing 130 on, despite us driving perfectly safely and no danger being present. I guess they are driving God's and I'm just a danger to other road users? Or maybe the system is an ass?
I've been passed by police vehicles on the motorway that have made me look like I'm standing still. If the driver is competent then it isn't a problem to me, but after having been done for 86 on a clear motorway it does make me bitter, I'll admit that.
They will say they're trained and tested to do those speeds and you and I are not. But through experience we may well be as good a driver as they are, but we'll still get done for doing 86 on that same stretch of road as they were doing 130 on, despite us driving perfectly safely and no danger being present. I guess they are driving God's and I'm just a danger to other road users? Or maybe the system is an ass?
I,m still waiting for the stats on pol acc road deaths. Anyway a good few years back we got the job of transporting a human donar organ from one hospital to another. No helicopter or M/C so we got the job. Time was critical. We had to get a childs heart from a dead wee soul to another wee soul that was waiting for a transplant.
I was not the driver but the traffic cop that was battered down the M74 to Engerland and I can tell you I remember the speedo at 160mph and can't remember it being under 95mph. Blue light all the way.
That boy could drive a car and was silent all the way. When we arrived he was exhasted due to the effort he put into a safe drive.
People who know me on here will be aware I am no traf pol fan but hey hats off to that guy.
We speed for a reason.
I was not the driver but the traffic cop that was battered down the M74 to Engerland and I can tell you I remember the speedo at 160mph and can't remember it being under 95mph. Blue light all the way.
That boy could drive a car and was silent all the way. When we arrived he was exhasted due to the effort he put into a safe drive.
People who know me on here will be aware I am no traf pol fan but hey hats off to that guy.
We speed for a reason.
deeps said:
They are human and like to drive fast and safely just the same as many of us do. They have the perfect reason or excuse to do it and they take full advantage of that. You and I would do the same if we were plod.
I've been passed by police vehicles on the motorway that have made me look like I'm standing still. If the driver is competent then it isn't a problem to me, but after having been done for 86 on a clear motorway it does make me bitter, I'll admit that.
They will say they're trained and tested to do those speeds and you and I are not. But through experience we may well be as good a driver as they are, but we'll still get done for doing 86 on that same stretch of road as they were doing 130 on, despite us driving perfectly safely and no danger being present. I guess they are driving God's and I'm just a danger to other road users? Or maybe the system is an ass?
I've been passed by police vehicles on the motorway that have made me look like I'm standing still. If the driver is competent then it isn't a problem to me, but after having been done for 86 on a clear motorway it does make me bitter, I'll admit that.
They will say they're trained and tested to do those speeds and you and I are not. But through experience we may well be as good a driver as they are, but we'll still get done for doing 86 on that same stretch of road as they were doing 130 on, despite us driving perfectly safely and no danger being present. I guess they are driving God's and I'm just a danger to other road users? Or maybe the system is an ass?
The important thing as far as the law is concerned, is the purpose for which the limit is being exceeded & that it is performed safely. The relative skill level of drivers have nothing to do with it.
vonhosen said:
deeps said:
They are human and like to drive fast and safely just the same as many of us do. They have the perfect reason or excuse to do it and they take full advantage of that. You and I would do the same if we were plod.
I've been passed by police vehicles on the motorway that have made me look like I'm standing still. If the driver is competent then it isn't a problem to me, but after having been done for 86 on a clear motorway it does make me bitter, I'll admit that.
They will say they're trained and tested to do those speeds and you and I are not. But through experience we may well be as good a driver as they are, but we'll still get done for doing 86 on that same stretch of road as they were doing 130 on, despite us driving perfectly safely and no danger being present. I guess they are driving God's and I'm just a danger to other road users? Or maybe the system is an ass?
I've been passed by police vehicles on the motorway that have made me look like I'm standing still. If the driver is competent then it isn't a problem to me, but after having been done for 86 on a clear motorway it does make me bitter, I'll admit that.
They will say they're trained and tested to do those speeds and you and I are not. But through experience we may well be as good a driver as they are, but we'll still get done for doing 86 on that same stretch of road as they were doing 130 on, despite us driving perfectly safely and no danger being present. I guess they are driving God's and I'm just a danger to other road users? Or maybe the system is an ass?
The important thing as far as the law is concerned, is the purpose for which the limit is being exceeded & that it is performed safely. The relative skill level of drivers have nothing to do with it.
Yet again VH puts it in a nut shell. Correct! Good answer.
gently bentley said:
I,m still waiting for the stats on pol acc road deaths. Anyway a good few years back we got the job of transporting a human donar organ from one hospital to another. No helicopter or M/C so we got the job. Time was critical. We had to get a childs heart from a dead wee soul to another wee soul that was waiting for a transplant.
I was not the driver but the traffic cop that was battered down the M74 to Engerland and I can tell you I remember the speedo at 160mph and can't remember it being under 95mph. Blue light all the way.
That boy could drive a car and was silent all the way. When we arrived he was exhasted due to the effort he put into a safe drive.
People who know me on here will be aware I am no traf pol fan but hey hats off to that guy.
We speed for a reason.
I was not the driver but the traffic cop that was battered down the M74 to Engerland and I can tell you I remember the speedo at 160mph and can't remember it being under 95mph. Blue light all the way.
That boy could drive a car and was silent all the way. When we arrived he was exhasted due to the effort he put into a safe drive.
People who know me on here will be aware I am no traf pol fan but hey hats off to that guy.
We speed for a reason.
Nice story and well done that guy.
But if he wasn't available for some reason, but an ordinary mop was, who was just as skilled a driver, he would have been crucified for those speeds despite his life saving good intentions.
vonhosen said:
The important thing as far as the law is concerned, is the purpose for which the limit is being exceeded & that it is performed safely. The relative skill level of drivers have nothing to do with it.
But is rushing to a broken down vehicle a valid purpose to warrant more than double the speed limit? If we assume there was no heart attack scenario and it was merely a break down, is that speed in rush hour traffic justifiable?
Like I said, the speed isn't the important factor to me, but driver competence obviously is.
Unlike you, I think the 'relative skill level' of drivers should have everything to do with it. If they are observed to be poor then remove them and educate them. The present system of being concerned, or even obsessed with drivers speed before and above their skill is detrimental to road safety IMO. If GB's organ donor driver above had been a mop and spotted by an SCP he would have no license now, despite being a valuable skilled driver.
deeps said:
gently bentley said:
I,m still waiting for the stats on pol acc road deaths. Anyway a good few years back we got the job of transporting a human donar organ from one hospital to another. No helicopter or M/C so we got the job. Time was critical. We had to get a childs heart from a dead wee soul to another wee soul that was waiting for a transplant.
I was not the driver but the traffic cop that was battered down the M74 to Engerland and I can tell you I remember the speedo at 160mph and can't remember it being under 95mph. Blue light all the way.
That boy could drive a car and was silent all the way. When we arrived he was exhasted due to the effort he put into a safe drive.
People who know me on here will be aware I am no traf pol fan but hey hats off to that guy.
We speed for a reason.
I was not the driver but the traffic cop that was battered down the M74 to Engerland and I can tell you I remember the speedo at 160mph and can't remember it being under 95mph. Blue light all the way.
That boy could drive a car and was silent all the way. When we arrived he was exhasted due to the effort he put into a safe drive.
People who know me on here will be aware I am no traf pol fan but hey hats off to that guy.
We speed for a reason.
Nice story and well done that guy.
But if he wasn't available for some reason, but an ordinary mop was, who was just as skilled a driver, he would have been crucified for those speeds despite his life saving good intentions.
The exemptions are limited to certain emergency services & only for certain purposes.
It isn't down to the skill of the drivers as I have explained. If they were claiming higher skill levels & the exemptions were because of that, then Police, Fire & Ambulance service drivers would be allowed to exceed limits when not doing it for emergency service purposes. The fact is though that they can't, so it's not about skill levels.
When emergency service drivers drive at high speed, there is greater risk because of it (no matter how well trained), but it is deemed that there is also tangible benefit that outweighs the extra risk. However it is deemed that the risk in allowing everyone to do that outweighs the benefits.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 4th March 02:04
deeps said:
vonhosen said:
The important thing as far as the law is concerned, is the purpose for which the limit is being exceeded & that it is performed safely. The relative skill level of drivers have nothing to do with it.
But is rushing to a broken down vehicle a valid purpose to warrant more than double the speed limit? If we assume there was no heart attack scenario and it was merely a break down, is that speed in rush hour traffic justifiable?
You don't know what the incident actually was though & what information they were acting on.
deeps said:
Unlike you, I think the 'relative skill level' of drivers should have everything to do with it. If they are observed to be poor then remove them and educate them. The present system of being concerned, or even obsessed with drivers speed before and above their skill is detrimental to road safety IMO. If GB's organ donor driver above had been a mop and spotted by an SCP he would have no license now, despite being a valuable skilled driver.
Society employs people to do it's emergency response work, it doesn't entrust it to everyone.
No matter how skilled, whether in the emergency services or not, if you drive outside the defined parameters you are liable to prosecution. There is no tiered licencing system.
Emergency service drivers who are caught speeding (other than using a lawful exemption) are prosecuted & get points where found guilty. Just like anyone else.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 4th March 02:07
deeps said:
But if he wasn't available for some reason, but an ordinary mop was, who was just as skilled a driver, he would have been crucified for those speeds despite his life saving good intentions.
I think most courts would acquit someone who had been speeding to get someone to hospital or the like. However most ordinary motorists speed because they have left too little time to get to a meeting, golf club, football match or whatever
chris_tivver said:
deeps said:
But if he wasn't available for some reason, but an ordinary mop was, who was just as skilled a driver, he would have been crucified for those speeds despite his life saving good intentions.
I think most courts would acquit someone who had been speeding to get someone to hospital or the like. However most ordinary motorists speed because they have left too little time to get to a meeting, golf club, football match or whatever
I dont think they would.
Its like when teh Bib come up behind you when you're stuck at the lights with blues and twos on, un til recently the majority would do their best to get out of the way in the safest quickest possible fashion. This is aproblem wen the junction is guarded by ared light camera and you would need to go through it to get out of the way.
There was a well reported incidnt recently where exacly this happened and the magistrate still gave the law abiding MOP 3 points and a fine as he alleged it could be open to abuse should he make an exception.
Would you get out of the way at a red light monitored junction and risk 3 points and a fine for doing nothing except aiding the Bibs progress?
andmole said:
freedman said:
Would you get out of the way at a red light monitored junction and risk 3 points and a fine for doing nothing except aiding the Bibs progress?
No
Personaly I would cancel any ticket issued in the circumstances described when aiding an emergency vehicle. However if your directed by an officer to contravene it and you don't but sit for a further minute or so you could find yourself dealing with an obstruction charge. If your ever forced through you take details of the vehicle in question and call it in there and then and you should not fall foul of three points.
mr_annie_vxr said:
andmole said:
freedman said:
Would you get out of the way at a red light monitored junction and risk 3 points and a fine for doing nothing except aiding the Bibs progress?
No
Personaly I would cancel any ticket issued in the circumstances described when aiding an emergency vehicle. However if your directed by an officer to contravene it and you don't but sit for a further minute or so you could find yourself dealing with an obstruction charge. If your ever forced through you take details of the vehicle in question and call it in there and then and you should not fall foul of three points.
This is how I had alway seenthe issue before, it is common sense that you were only breaking the law at the behest of a public servant, however it appears the judiciary dont feel the same
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