Drunk in charge of a winnebago
Discussion
Some friends and I are going up for a university reunion on campus and somebody has had the rather bizarre idea of hiring a winnebago for the weekend.
We're going to be drunk (very) and we'll be going back to the 'bago which will be parked up somewhere in a campus car park.
What's the legal aspect of being drunk in charge of such a vehicle?
Clearly we'll not be driving it although the driver will be asleep (read passed out) in one of the beds with the keys on him.
We could leave the keys with one of the barmen but it'll be a real arse ache getting them back the next day.
Thoughts?
We're going to be drunk (very) and we'll be going back to the 'bago which will be parked up somewhere in a campus car park.
What's the legal aspect of being drunk in charge of such a vehicle?
Clearly we'll not be driving it although the driver will be asleep (read passed out) in one of the beds with the keys on him.
We could leave the keys with one of the barmen but it'll be a real arse ache getting them back the next day.
Thoughts?
This may answer your question:
Road Traffic Act 1988 :
Section 5.—
1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
Road Traffic Act 1988 :
Section 5.—
1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
cloggy said:
Leave the keys with the caretaker of the campus.
This is the best plan so far.
It is unlikely that the BiB will bother coming onto campus but its best to cover yourself.
The other thing you could do is remove a small but essential part of the engine which is easily removed and replaced and leave it with someone. That will mean that you will still have the keys to open and lock it whilst you are drinking!
not applicable said:
This may answer your question:
Road Traffic Act 1988 :
Section 5.—
1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
Road Traffic Act 1988 :
Section 5.—
1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
But is the Campus car park a public place?
would be a real little Hitler that would actually nick someone for this.....
catso said:
not applicable said:
This may answer your question:
Road Traffic Act 1988 :
Section 5.—
1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
Road Traffic Act 1988 :
Section 5.—
1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
But is the Campus car park a public place?
would be a real little Hitler that would actually nick someone for this.....
Perhaps not, but a camp site surely would be.
I know with my motorhome there are two doors - one a 'driver's' door and the other a 'side' door to the main body of the motorhome.
The keys for the driver's door, 'side' door and ignition are all different and not interchangable. I've fitted a small safe to carry documents and leave cash/cards etc and dump the ignition keys and driver's door key in there, keeping the side door keys to give me access.
Would imagine it would be very difficult to prove an intent to drive when the keys aren't in my possession but locked in a safe to which both my wife and myself have access.
BB
catso said:
would be a real little Hitler that would actually nick someone for this.....
You haven't seen the security guards on Warwick campus have you?
Give a little man a hat and a badge and they become crazed with power. Obviously they can't nick you but they'd probably call BiB. Unfortunately the Napoleonic complex also runs into the union staff. The "security" staff for the union are typically postgrad students who simply can't leave. One night Primal Scream were playing and Bobby Gillespie left the union to go and get something* from the tour bus. When he tried to get back in they stopped him because he wasn't carrying any ID. He was due on stage in 10 minutes and ended up chinning one of them.
*to be fair this "something" was almost certainly a class A illicit substance but that's not why they stopped him
Theres always one!!
Get as drunk as you can and wait for the Lancs or Cumbria police to stop you.....But beware they may give you Photos of themselves!!
Get as drunk as you can and wait for the Lancs or Cumbria police to stop you.....But beware they may give you Photos of themselves!!
not applicable said:
This may answer your question:
Road Traffic Act 1988 :
Section 5.—
1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
Road Traffic Act 1988 :
Section 5.—
1) If a person—
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
Case Law of Sheldrake v DPP 2003 addressed this quite significantly, rightly making it more difficult to prosecute someone for this offence if they are parked up in a motorhome or similar. The justices found they couldn't marry the onus of proof (on the defendant) in 5(2)with the presumption of innocence as per Human Rights Act. This case effectively changed the burden of proof to the prosecution if the defendant provided a reasonable explanation as to why he would not drive the vehicle until sober.
The relevant points from the judges conclusion are as follows;
The relevant points from the judges conclusion are as follows;
Mr Justice Henriques said:
The accused satisfies the evidential burden if he demonstrates from the evidence an arguable case that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence there was no likelihood of his driving whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
If the accused satisfies the evidential burden, it is for the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the circumstances were not such that there was no likelihood of his driving whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit. Put positively, that means that the prosecution must prove that there was a real risk, in the sense of a risk that ought not to be ignored, of his driving whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
It follows that I would allow the appeal and quash the conviction because the justices did not apply those tests to the facts which they found.
If the accused satisfies the evidential burden, it is for the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the circumstances were not such that there was no likelihood of his driving whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit. Put positively, that means that the prosecution must prove that there was a real risk, in the sense of a risk that ought not to be ignored, of his driving whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
It follows that I would allow the appeal and quash the conviction because the justices did not apply those tests to the facts which they found.
Mattt said:
Can you not drive while under the influence whilst on a campsite?
Last year I had to move my car around a bit (not far) after having a few beers due to parking in the wrong place - I thought it was fine!
Last year I had to move my car around a bit (not far) after having a few beers due to parking in the wrong place - I thought it was fine!
I think you will find that a campsite is a public place, within the terms of this legislation.
chrispy porker said:
Mattt said:
Can you not drive while under the influence whilst on a campsite?
Last year I had to move my car around a bit (not far) after having a few beers due to parking in the wrong place - I thought it was fine!
Last year I had to move my car around a bit (not far) after having a few beers due to parking in the wrong place - I thought it was fine!
I think you will find that a campsite is a public place, within the terms of this legislation.
However, its irrelevant. The Police have to show that there is a real likelyhood of the vehicle being driven. Not easy.
chrispy porker said:
he did say he moved the car!
I assumed he drove it.
That seemed reasonably relevant.
I assumed he drove it.
That seemed reasonably relevant.
Sure, but the taffic Police dont normally frequent camping sites. So unless there just happened to be one there at the time AND he saw the car being driven the worst that could happen is the Police turn up after the fact. Too late.
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