How many police cars are needed in mile?

[dancequeen]

As I was traveling down the A494 Queensferry this evening (5pm ish) from the Deeside industrial estate, this part of the by pass has/is being extended into three lanes at great Expense.......(i am not sure why because the speed limit is 50mph????) so as I go onto the A494 just under the bridge I spot the NICE police car with one guy talking on his phone so i smile and drive slowly past. Then about half mile ahead i see blue lights flashing and someone has been pulled into the side, at this point i am doing ohhhh bout 30mph due to the volume of traffic.....thinking it strange to see two cars in this short space of time, oh no! Surprise Surprise they come in three's........... ANOTHER car sat on the side of the by pass whilst all the traffic is getting slower, once past Car three, the traffic speeds up and away we go.

Now the question i would like answerd is....................could this be the reason for mugging and stealing ect in the area cos all the NICE police are harrassing the motorist??

[vonhosen]

dancequeen said:

As I was traveling down the A494 Queensferry this evening (5pm ish) from the Deeside industrial estate, this part of the by pass has/is being extended into three lanes at great Expense.......(i am not sure why because the speed limit is 50mph????) so as I go onto the A494 just under the bridge I spot the NICE police car with one guy talking on his phone so i smile and drive slowly past. Then about half mile ahead i see blue lights flashing and someone has been pulled into the side, at this point i am doing ohhhh bout 30mph due to the volume of traffic.....thinking it strange to see two cars in this short space of time, oh no! Surprise Surprise they come in three's........... ANOTHER car sat on the side of the by pass whilst all the traffic is getting slower, once past Car three, the traffic speeds up and away we go.

Now the question i would like answerd is....................could this be the reason for mugging and stealing ect in the area cos all the NICE police are harrassing the motorist??

Or alternatively there had been a robbery or car stolen that was last sighted (or even being pursued) in that direction resulting in 1 & 3 looking for that, whilst 2 was reporting the driver stopped for some dangerous tailgating. Sometimes the reasons just aren't obvious & assumption isn't always right.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 9th March 21:58

[dancequeen]

Still a little overkill when police are needed in other areas and it looked like one and three where just have a bite to eat and use the mobile without getting a fine and 3 points !!!!
When my car was trashed outside the house, and not one neighbour saw a thing.........all the Nice police wanted to do was give me a number and send me on my way??? If they had been walking round the streets instead of drinking coffee in a layby...........crime rate may be reduced????

[mr_annie_vxr]

dancequeen said:

As I was traveling down the A494 Queensferry this evening (5pm ish) from the Deeside industrial estate, this part of the by pass has/is being extended into three lanes at great Expense.......(i am not sure why because the speed limit is 50mph????) so as I go onto the A494 just under the bridge I spot the NICE police car with one guy talking on his phone so i smile and drive slowly past. Then about half mile ahead i see blue lights flashing and someone has been pulled into the side, at this point i am doing ohhhh bout 30mph due to the volume of traffic.....thinking it strange to see two cars in this short space of time, oh no! Surprise Surprise they come in three's........... ANOTHER car sat on the side of the by pass whilst all the traffic is getting slower, once past Car three, the traffic speeds up and away we go.

Now the question i would like answerd is....................could this be the reason for mugging and stealing ect in the area cos all the NICE police are harrassing the motorist??

Not quite sure what comments you want to elicit from this? What sort of vehicles were they? If they are traffic officers then they would not be dealing with all the muggings you say are happening at this location (a bypass) at 5pm. The officers could have been called to an incident in the area and be on there way back? They could be looking for a specific car in relation to a crime? Who knows the reasons are endless.

You have no idea why that vehicle was pulled up. They could be linked to a crime, have been driving badly or be shown on the database as having no insurance.

I love this forum. One minute we want more traffic officers the next the classic line of why don't police start going after real criminals when you do see a police presence.

I wish you all would make your minds up. I find it all a bit confusing. I happen to think traffic officers with discretion are better than speed cameras as they also deal with bad driving/ vehicles in bad state of repair rather than just speed.

[vonhosen]

dancequeen said:

Still a little overkill when police are needed in other areas and it looked like one and three where just have a bite to eat and use the mobile without getting a fine and 3 points !!!!
When my car was trashed outside the house, and not one neighbour saw a thing.........all the Nice police wanted to do was give me a number and send me on my way??? If they had been walking round the streets instead of drinking coffee in a layby...........crime rate may be reduced????

You've no idea why they were there & believe it or not they have to eat/drink like other people to, or do you eat/drink nothing at all during your working day ever ?

There are far more streets than there are officers. They are mobile so they can get around to more of them.

You didn't see your car being trashed, none of your neighbours did either & presumably some of them were in the street at the time yet still saw/heard nothing. Yet you expect the Police to have been standing guard by your car on the off chance

[mr_annie_vxr]

dancequeen said:

Still a little overkill when police are needed in other areas and it looked like one and three where just have a bite to eat and use the mobile without getting a fine and 3 points !!!!
When my car was trashed outside the house, and not one neighbour saw a thing.........all the Nice police wanted to do was give me a number and send me on my way??? If they had been walking round the streets instead of drinking coffee in a layby...........crime rate may be reduced????

Oh your car was trashed at 5pm in the afternoon?

If it was done at 0100 in the morning I do not see what the relevance of what police are doing at 5pm in the afternoon is?

[jith]

Gentlemen, and by that I mean Mr Annie and Von.
With the greatest respect, you really have no idea how different enforcement techniques and the application of the law are between Scotland and England.
Some of the principles you are applying here from your experience simply don't apply in Scotland, so I would be very careful about the advice you give.

[dancequeen]

[/quote]Oh your car was trashed at 5pm in the afternoon?

If it was done at 0100 in the morning I do not see what the relevance of what police are doing at 5pm in the afternoon is?[/quote]
*****************************

No the trashing of my car was done between 10pm and 6am and no i do not expect them to sit by MY car. What i do expect is they give it a go and TRY and find out who the fk did it and stop them doing it again

I feel that my contribution to the cost of the police is not being used to the best of society, and it always seems to be the motorist that is the main/easiest target to go for? otherwise crime figures would be comeing down?

[mr_annie_vxr]

This does seem a bit defensive I admit and I'm sorry you have been the victim of a crime but you have to stop just assuming that what your perceptions are of a situation are correct. The reason they did not attend you is that if there are no witnesses what is to be gained apart from looking at your damaged car. It won't find the offenders and whilst they are with you they are not elsewhere looking or patrolling. Criminal damage to motor vehicles is random or linked directly to the person whose car it is that has been damaged. Its hard to predict and rarely caught in the act. Theft from motor vehicle and theft of motor vehicle is easier to predict in terms of locality and in most cases the offenders are known via intelligence (not enough to arrest and prosecute) and as such allows officers to be effectively deployed in the specific areas not in random locations.

[mr_annie_vxr]

jith said:

Gentlemen, and by that I mean Mr Annie and Von.
With the greatest respect, you really have no idea how different enforcement techniques and the application of the law are between Scotland and England.
Some of the principles you are applying here from your experience simply don't apply in Scotland, so I would be very careful about the advice you give.

I would humbly suggest that nothing I have said is policy or legally based but just applying common sense and experience. As I pointed out the crime was between 10pm-6am not 5 in the afternoon. As such the presence of officers on a main road (high visible presence /re-assurance) at 5pm in the afternoon is of no bearing upon what happened to the unfortunate ladies car.

One tactic used nationwide is to position cars within high volume areas of traffic (vehicle or otherwise) so that maximum police exposure is given thus increasing the public perception of how many officers are in an area. In these circumstances there are a whole host of unknown reasons why there would be three cars within close locality.

[dancequeen]

i appreciate what you are saying Mr Annie, but when the PC called it was only to give the number not to do anything else just defeatist attitude!!!!
Even if they led me to believe they would do something?

[mr_annie_vxr]

dancequeen said:

i appreciate what you are saying Mr Annie, but when the PC called it was only to give the number not to do anything else just defeatist attitude!!!!
Even if they led me to believe they would do something?

But why lie and give you un-realistic expectations? If your car was subject to criminal damage then unless you knew the offender (i mean as in ex partner somonewith a grudge etc) then unless someone saw the person there are no other enquiries that are practical. If it was tfmv then there may be a possibility of finding an offender due to the reasons mentioned above. I do understand your anger its a common comment about seeing police do x but when I wanted y well . It really is in this case apples and pears.

Edited for spelling and to change pairs to pears!!!

Edited by mr_annie_vxr on Friday 9th March 22:47

[vonhosen]

They have to prioritise their resources to the crimes that are most serious, prioritised &/or have leads that have both a reasonable chance of identifying the offender & providing sufficient evidence to prove the offence.

[dancequeen]

I dont want unrealistic expectations i just want the law be effective, in my personal experience they dont seem interested in crime/old people or anything else that is more paperwork for less money...........lets face it Mr Annie, if you have to visit 10 houses with no money gain or one car doing 31mph £60 fine (points are a bonus) what would you choose??? in your honest opinion?

[odyssey2200]

Better to have 3 trafpol that 3 gatso!!

[vonhosen]

dancequeen said:

I dont want unrealistic expectations i just want the law be effective, in my personal experience they dont seem interested in crime/old people or anything else that is more paperwork for less money...........lets face it Mr Annie, if you have to visit 10 houses with no money gain or one car doing 31mph £60 fine (points are a bonus) what would you choose??? in your honest opinion?

The numbers of officers dedicated to traffic duties firmly answers that. They form only a very small percentage of the total numbers. Police priorities & the deployment of resources lay elsewhere.

[dancequeen]

vonhosen said:

dancequeen said:

I dont want unrealistic expectations i just want the law be effective, in my personal experience they dont seem interested in crime/old people or anything else that is more paperwork for less money...........lets face it Mr Annie, if you have to visit 10 houses with no money gain or one car doing 31mph £60 fine (points are a bonus) what would you choose??? in your honest opinion?

The numbers of officers dedicated to traffic duties firmly answers that. They form only a very small percentage of the total numbers. Police priorities & the deployment of resources lay elsewhere.

I cant see your answer vonhosen????

[mr_annie_vxr]

dancequeen said:

I dont want unrealistic expectations i just want the law be effective, in my personal experience they dont seem interested in crime/old people or anything else that is more paperwork for less money...........lets face it Mr Annie, if you have to visit 10 houses with no money gain or one car doing 31mph £60 fine (points are a bonus) what would you choose??? in your honest opinion?

Money to gain? My job is not revenue collection. I have issued one speeding ticket in 12 years involved with the police service. Also your not prosecuted for 31 in 30 its at least 35 as ACPO guidlines ar 10% +3. Traffic enforcement is a big thing as its the one dept that can prevent deaths. All road crashes have something at fault and as such are preventable. Murders in most cases are not.

Police in England are no different to our Scots cousins. They are very intersted in crime as its one of the things they are meausured upon. Also most police officers join to catch burglars/ car thieves and the like as well as to enfore traffic laws and reduce road death and casualties.

Each force has different officers for different functions. Be it crime detection/ prevention or road casualty reduction. The majority of criminals use roads and most do not tend to insure or maintain there vehicles.

I have to be honest I'd rather issue tickets though (and I hate tickets) than attend some of the meaningless drivel that I have to spend my time on. If you could take dealing with that away from my job (read a book called Wasting Police Time by David Copperfield to see to what I refer) then I'd be far more effective.

[odyssey2200]

I seen to remember a few weeks ago, many PHers demanding the abolition of gatso and the reintroduction of sensible, human Trafpol with the power of discretion.

Now some are whinging that there a re Trafpol in cars on our roads.

Can we reach a concensus please?

Having police on our roads will not effect the crime stats for robberies etc as they never caught any robbers when they weren't on the roads, but cameras blindly printed out NIPs indiscriminately anyway.

[mr_annie_vxr]

Quinny said:

vonhosen said:

They have to prioritise their resources to the crimes that are most serious, prioritised &/or have leads that have both a reasonable chance of identifying the offender & providing sufficient evidence to prove the offence.

Excellent, from the horses mouth

Go for the easy wins, if its hard and might lead to a bit of effort, in reality not much chance of catching anyone, best to do nothing eh??

Pity they couldn't have dusted the car over for a few prints hey Dancequeen?? You never know it may have turned up something.
And even if it didn't at least she'd have felt they made a bit of effort



What was it that Bart Simpson said??
Can't succeed, don't try

And Homer?

If a jobs hard to do then its not worth doing
The Simpsons eh, Gotta love em

Locating prints on the car would have proven only the person was nearby. Any decent lawyer these days would get them off that. There were no tangible leads in this case (im not sure what was damaged) as there was no-one who saw anything.

The police is all about resource management. You can only deal with a percentage of the things that happen. As such you do have to give up on some aspects that would remove resources from investigations that could succeed. Better to suceed at 3 things than fail at all 5. Its not ideal but unless your willing to campaign for a large increase in the police budget its the way it is. No-one likes it but if you have to do it. The police budgets in all forces are being cut in real terms.