red light?

[wideload]

On friday night i was collecting some friends from the pub and taking them home. I was driving though the town centre. Opposite the police station and rialway station there is a pedestrian crossing being watched by some police people.

On approach to this crossing my friend (a bit worse for wear is jumping around in the front seat of the car, i dont see any lights or even what colour they are on. I then see the two policemen running down the road yelling at me to stop immediately. I do so. I then get out and informed that i went through a red light. I appologise and then get literally yelled at by the police. I cooperate fully. They one then goes away to the police station and gets a book of tickets, whilst i am bricking it thinking that half of my allowance has just gone. When i stop begging them to let me off the ticket and resign myself to it, i do make some slightly 'cheeky' remarks. The policeman then responds and tells me to f**k off. Are the police allowed to swear at you? (I am only 17)

Is there any way form me to get off of this ticket as i really can't afford the points. Do they need the engine size of the car on the form as i didn't tell them that and is there anyway that it can be dismissed due to improper conduct?

Any help appreciated

[BO55 VXR]

Not being a copper, I would suggest that telling you to Foxtrot Oscar is well out of order and yelling at you, even though you are co-operating seems a bit excesive. However, if you broke the rules of the road, then he has the right to issue a ticket.

Maybe he was wound up because the light was on red and he was just about to cross the road and you almost clipped him.

You could lodge a complaint against the officer, but only if you feel you were unjustly treated, and would probably not result in the cancellation the ticket.

If you genuinely did not see the lights, then I'm afraid you'll just have to take it on the chin and and pay more attention to the road and drive like a saint until your two years are up.

[Bing o]

So, you have just started driving, you have some pissed mate in the passenger seat being a tt. You miss a red light (pretty hard to do if you are focussing on driving), plod pull you over, and you get a bit "cheeky" (=failed attitude test).

Pay the fine, take the points, and learn your lesson.

It could have been a person you went through, not a red light....

(And IMHO, drunk passengers are not a great addition to ones vehicle - stick them in a taxi, and leave the passenger seat for da laydees)

[andmole]

Come on guys, have some sympathy, I bet most of us have at some point in our motoring careers gone through a pedestrian crossing at red, by accident, late at night, when no one was around.

As far as failing the attitude test is concerned, the BiB failed BIG TIME. There is no excuse for that use of language against a motorist, especially after he was accepting the ticket. Anyway, should have been dealt with by using a bit of discretion, and a severe talking to.

AND, on the issue of the drunk mate, they should have been thanking him for making sure he got home safely. Left to his own devices he could have caused trouble, which the BiB would then have had to deal with, wasting time and causing paperwork.

Unfortunately, he'll probably just have to pay up, (might be worth a visit to peepipoo), but I think he should complain big time about the apalling attitude of the BiB.

[justinp1]

andmole said:

Come on guys, have some sympathy, I bet most of us have at some point in our motoring careers gone through a pedestrian crossing at red, by accident, late at night, when no one was around.

As far as failing the attitude test is concerned, the BiB failed BIG TIME. There is no excuse for that use of language against a motorist, especially after he was accepting the ticket. Anyway, should have been dealt with by using a bit of discretion, and a severe talking to.

AND, on the issue of the drunk mate, they should have been thanking him for making sure he got home safely. Left to his own devices he could have caused trouble, which the BiB would then have had to deal with, wasting time and causing paperwork.

Unfortunately, he'll probably just have to pay up, (might be worth a visit to peepipoo), but I think he should complain big time about the apalling attitude of the BiB.

Sorry, have to disagree with this!

The OP has admitted being a new driver and driving through a town centre at chucking out time and drove through a crossing without even noticing there were lights let alone a drunkard waiting to cross, or crossing.

When he is stopped by the police he is admittedly cheeky and says this is the cause of the police office reacting in this way.

How or why exactly should the OP escape a ticket!?

In recounting the story the OP is more concerned by the effect to 'half of his allowance' than any potential consequences and now is looking for away to 'get off' without a ticket based solely upon the reaction he got from the police officer which he admitted he entirely provoked.

The OP doesnt need anyone else supporting his actions, he needs to take responsibility for his own before he loses his licence for one other similar offence or he is involved in an accident.

[andmole]

justinp1 said:

andmole said:

Come on guys, have some sympathy, I bet most of us have at some point in our motoring careers gone through a pedestrian crossing at red, by accident, late at night, when no one was around.

As far as failing the attitude test is concerned, the BiB failed BIG TIME. There is no excuse for that use of language against a motorist, especially after he was accepting the ticket. Anyway, should have been dealt with by using a bit of discretion, and a severe talking to.

AND, on the issue of the drunk mate, they should have been thanking him for making sure he got home safely. Left to his own devices he could have caused trouble, which the BiB would then have had to deal with, wasting time and causing paperwork.

Unfortunately, he'll probably just have to pay up, (might be worth a visit to peepipoo), but I think he should complain big time about the apalling attitude of the BiB.

Sorry, have to disagree with this!

The OP has admitted being a new driver and driving through a town centre at chucking out time and drove through a crossing without even noticing there were lights let alone a drunkard waiting to cross, or crossing.

When he is stopped by the police he is admittedly cheeky and says this is the cause of the police office reacting in this way.

How or why exactly should the OP escape a ticket!?

In recounting the story the OP is more concerned by the effect to 'half of his allowance' than any potential consequences and now is looking for away to 'get off' without a ticket based solely upon the reaction he got from the police officer which he admitted he entirely provoked.

The OP doesnt need anyone else supporting his actions, he needs to take responsibility for his own before he loses his licence for one other similar offence or he is involved in an accident.

The BiB overreacted, probably so did the OP.

You haven't answered the point about the swearing by the BiB, (what would the reaction have been if the OP had used that language?).

You have ignored the point that he might have been helping the BiB by keeping the drunk off the streets.

You haven't said anything about my implication "there but for the grace of God go I"

Is this how we encourage young drivers to respect the rule of law and the BiB?

There are 2 approaches to a situation like this:

1. Let's use discretion, no one was hurt, the lad is obviously distracted by his drunk mate, at least he'll get home safely without causing any more bother, a firm word should do the trick.

2. Let's have im, we need a few more tickets this month, and while we're at it lets try to wind him up so he can get into real bother.

And perhaps he should go back and make sure the crossing was working properly, I have seen them with not all lights working before.

[wideload]

I just want to try and defend myself for a second. I was 100% compliant until the time the ticket was actually being written and there was nothing i could do to escape it. I never once rose my voice or acted even the slightest bit agressively unitl this time, however the male police officer there was, for lack of a better word, larey and argumentative from the off. It was only after the ticket was given that i started being, admitedly a little out of order, but nothing that offensive, for example not saying the engine size of the car, when asked if it was manual replying see for yourself, telling them to look up the registered keeper's name on their database (my mum) when they asked and just asking the sort of questions you would ask a referee in a game of football when they have just given a bad decision.

Will it be 3 points with this £60 fine or less/more. Will this affect my insurance? And is it worth asking for evidence that i actually did this before i admit to it, aka a polite letter handed in at the police station saying words to the effect of if you can prove that i went through the light i will pay the fine but if you cant i wont.

[Mattt]

andmole said:

Come on guys, have some sympathy, I bet most of us have at some point in our motoring careers gone through a pedestrian crossing at red, by accident, late at night, when no one was around.

As far as failing the attitude test is concerned, the BiB failed BIG TIME. There is no excuse for that use of language against a motorist, especially after he was accepting the ticket. Anyway, should have been dealt with by using a bit of discretion, and a severe talking to.

AND, on the issue of the drunk mate, they should have been thanking him for making sure he got home safely. Left to his own devices he could have caused trouble, which the BiB would then have had to deal with, wasting time and causing paperwork.

Unfortunately, he'll probably just have to pay up, (might be worth a visit to peepipoo), but I think he should complain big time about the apalling attitude of the BiB.

I agree with Justin!

Although I forgot this was PH, whereby the Police are always in the wrong and you can act as judge, jury and executioner based on a 1 sided account of a series of events.

For the record, from time to time I may exceed speed limits where safe to do so, but have NEVER skipped a clear red light.

You also don't know what kind of cheek was given out, however that doesn't excuse the unprofessional behaviour of the BiB in question.

You could go down the route of complaining, but I would take it on the chin - otherwise you may find yourself with no leniency in future when you may really need it.

[Mattt]

andmole said:

You have ignored the point that he might have been helping the BiB by keeping the drunk off the streets.

Sorry that's bollox, since when did the Police become solely responsible for people being unable to control themselves?

All I need to do is pick up drunk people at night, and I can chuck the rule book out the window?

Edited by Mattt on Sunday 18th March 11:31

[WildCat]

wideload said:

On friday night i was collecting some friends from the pub and taking them home. I was driving though the town centre. Opposite the police station and rialway station there is a pedestrian crossing being watched by some police people.

So you saw the police und the pelican. Perhaps the police were waiting to cross.

wideload said:

On approach to this crossing my friend (a bit worse for wear is jumping around in the front seat of the car, i dont see any lights or even what colour they are on.

It would be a distraction I think I would have pulled over und asked the policemen if they would not mind being awful sweeties und just take him into a cell to sober up!

Ist always a problem for you young English in particular .. that you are never taught how much ist enough to drink und to know when you have enough.. und ist ridiculous to think a good night out ist the one you cannot remember but probably behaved appallingly und cringingly badly - making lives of others including those poor police und medics who regularly suffer drunken und even drugged up abuse.

wideload said:

I then see the two policemen running down the road yelling at me to stop immediately. I do so. I then get out and informed that i went through a red light. I appologise and then get literally yelled at by the police. I cooperate fully. They one then goes away to the police station and gets a book of tickets, whilst i am bricking it thinking that half of my allowance has just gone. When i stop begging them to let me off the ticket and resign myself to it, i do make some slightly 'cheeky' remarks. The policeman then responds and tells me to f**k off. Are the police allowed to swear at you? (I am only 17)

It depend on the level of your cheek Liebchen Am surprised they did not breathalyse you given state of your passenger. I would not expect officer to swear.. though as respect beget respect und probably more professional to ignore the cheeky "insult" made in frustration perhaps .. but to make some inoffensive put down of the sort Mama und Papa make to tell you to pipe down und grow up a bit

wideload said:

Is there any way form me to get off of this ticket as i really can't afford the points. Do they need the engine size of the car on the form as i didn't tell them that and is there anyway that it can be dismissed due to improper conduct?

Any help appreciated

They would have recorded all detail as relevant to the offence und driver und his car in case you decide to fight in court

You went through a red pelican just as officers were about to cross this road. You were unfortunate that your drunken passenger decided to play up und distract.

Chalk to experience. Cease being his taxi service und club together for proper taxi.


Make it plain to all your passengers that you are "King of the car" und have firm rules whilst driving und if they distract or misbehave in any way .. you will dump them from your car und they make their own way home.

Und drive like a saint - re-learn your COAST und learn positively from this experience

[puffpuff]

Bit daft in my view, getting lippy with the BiB after being stopped on a Friday night with a pissed up mate in the front seat; especially if you're a 17 year old student who's just been spotted jumping a red light.

With all the other late night crap the BiB have to deal with, I'm sure a smart-arse driver is something they can do without. Some of the questions they ask are not because they want to know the answer but to determine if you may be under the influence of drink and/or drugs.

If you want to play games with them fine, but consider the consequences.

Edited by puffpuff on Sunday 18th March 11:44

[justinp1]

wideload said:

I just want to try and defend myself for a second. I was 100% compliant until the time the ticket was actually being written and there was nothing i could do to escape it. I never once rose my voice or acted even the slightest bit agressively unitl this time, however the male police officer there was, for lack of a better word, larey and argumentative from the off. It was only after the ticket was given that i started being, admitedly a little out of order, but nothing that offensive, for example not saying the engine size of the car, when asked if it was manual replying see for yourself, telling them to look up the registered keeper's name on their database (my mum) when they asked and just asking the sort of questions you would ask a referee in a game of football when they have just given a bad decision.

Will it be 3 points with this £60 fine or less/more. Will this affect my insurance? And is it worth asking for evidence that i actually did this before i admit to it, aka a polite letter handed in at the police station saying words to the effect of if you can prove that i went through the light i will pay the fine but if you cant i wont.

To be honest then, you have been pulled over and after you thought you were going to get a ticket, you attitude changed and you:

Refused to tell him the engine size of the car,
Told him to 'see for yourself' when asked whether it was a manual,
When they asked if you were the keeper, you refused to tell them and told them to find out for yourself

Ironically, at that stage the information he was asking could have been used to fill out a 'producer'. This means that if you are polite he can still change his mind and just ask you to bring your insurance details to a police station to be checked...

But he needs the information he asked for to do that!

As to what punishment you will get, it depends if you will be reported for the incident, but due to your attitude to the officer means you can pretty much guarantee that! That will be 3 points and £60 as you say.

I would suggest that if in the example you give that this is the attitude you give to football referees, you are tempting them to send you off. If you do it to something as important to a police officer then dont be surprised when they throw the book at you too!

[Mattt]

wideload said:

I just want to try and defend myself for a second. I was 100% compliant until the time the ticket was actually being written and there was nothing i could do to escape it. I never once rose my voice or acted even the slightest bit agressively unitl this time, however the male police officer there was, for lack of a better word, larey and argumentative from the off. It was only after the ticket was given that i started being, admitedly a little out of order, but nothing that offensive, for example not saying the engine size of the car, when asked if it was manual replying see for yourself, telling them to look up the registered keeper's name on their database (my mum) when they asked and just asking the sort of questions you would ask a referee in a game of football when they have just given a bad decision.

Will it be 3 points with this £60 fine or less/more. Will this affect my insurance? And is it worth asking for evidence that i actually did this before i admit to it, aka a polite letter handed in at the police station saying words to the effect of if you can prove that i went through the light i will pay the fine but if you cant i wont.

It will affect your insurance, more than a SP30 would yes - please just accept it for your own sake.

[justinp1]

andmole said:

justinp1 said:

andmole said:

Come on guys, have some sympathy, I bet most of us have at some point in our motoring careers gone through a pedestrian crossing at red, by accident, late at night, when no one was around.

As far as failing the attitude test is concerned, the BiB failed BIG TIME. There is no excuse for that use of language against a motorist, especially after he was accepting the ticket. Anyway, should have been dealt with by using a bit of discretion, and a severe talking to.

AND, on the issue of the drunk mate, they should have been thanking him for making sure he got home safely. Left to his own devices he could have caused trouble, which the BiB would then have had to deal with, wasting time and causing paperwork.

Unfortunately, he'll probably just have to pay up, (might be worth a visit to peepipoo), but I think he should complain big time about the apalling attitude of the BiB.

Sorry, have to disagree with this!

The OP has admitted being a new driver and driving through a town centre at chucking out time and drove through a crossing without even noticing there were lights let alone a drunkard waiting to cross, or crossing.

When he is stopped by the police he is admittedly cheeky and says this is the cause of the police office reacting in this way.

How or why exactly should the OP escape a ticket!?

In recounting the story the OP is more concerned by the effect to 'half of his allowance' than any potential consequences and now is looking for away to 'get off' without a ticket based solely upon the reaction he got from the police officer which he admitted he entirely provoked.

The OP doesnt need anyone else supporting his actions, he needs to take responsibility for his own before he loses his licence for one other similar offence or he is involved in an accident.

The BiB overreacted, probably so did the OP.

You haven't answered the point about the swearing by the BiB, (what would the reaction have been if the OP had used that language?).

You have ignored the point that he might have been helping the BiB by keeping the drunk off the streets.

You haven't said anything about my implication "there but for the grace of God go I"

Is this how we encourage young drivers to respect the rule of law and the BiB?

There are 2 approaches to a situation like this:

1. Let's use discretion, no one was hurt, the lad is obviously distracted by his drunk mate, at least he'll get home safely without causing any more bother, a firm word should do the trick.

2. Let's have im, we need a few more tickets this month, and while we're at it lets try to wind him up so he can get into real bother.

And perhaps he should go back and make sure the crossing was working properly, I have seen them with not all lights working before.

Or,

Perhaps the officer pulled the guy over and thought it was serious enough to have a stern word. He doesnt have his insurance details on him so he starts to fill out a producer. In doing that that OP is deliberately frustrating and obstructive to at least three questions. So he throws the book at him.

As honourable as it is keeping a drunk off the streets, that does not excuse driving like that - in the same way I do not expect leniency if I get nabbed on my way to work as I am keeping someone off the dole!

A lesson was learnt here all round. After a few more hours of dealing with thugs and drunks and violence the police officer may forget the incident... but if the worst he committed that night is in a break from all that was to tell a cheeky **** to 'Eff off' then he hasnt done too bad.

[WildCat]

wideload said:

I just want to try and defend myself for a second. I was 100% compliant until the time the ticket was actually being written and there was nothing i could do to escape it. I never once rose my voice or acted even the slightest bit agressively unitl this time, however the male police officer there was, for lack of a better word, larey and argumentative from the off.

He was probably about to cross when you drove through the light ..

Also you are young.. perhaps a little "stereoptyping" on his part.

wideload said:

It was only after the ticket was given that i started being, admitedly a little out of order, but nothing that offensive, for example not saying the engine size of the car, when asked if it was manual replying see for yourself, telling them to look up the registered keeper's name on their database (my mum) when they asked and just asking the sort of questions you would ask a referee in a game of football when they have just given a bad decision.

He was simply getting the data to check that you were legally entitled to drive. Ist not your fault that other young men fail to insure or TWOC cars .. but he has to do his job und make sure you are nice young man that you are in more normal und less threatening (to you) circumstances. In such circumstances .. you just answer straightforward question with straightforward answer as in "yes... ist a manual petrol car.. no ist not my car .. but my Mama's but I am nominated driver on her policy und "she will be hopping mad with me over this"

Mad Doc und self once had to produce docs in North Wales when a young BiB stopped us in them Moggies we drive (Not the big cat Jags.. but those cute Morris 1000s). He asked us "How fast does it go!" (we were doing 27 mph each at the time ) .. to which we replied with a laugh - " dunno really - as fast as we might want to drive 'em on a motorway " ) He laughed ..but asked us to take documents relating to these two old dears to station. I think he just wanted a nosey around a dead cool car though .. mine ist the soft top hunk version

wideload said:

Will it be 3 points with this £60 fine or less/more. Will this affect my insurance? And is it worth asking for evidence that i actually did this before i admit to it, aka a polite letter handed in at the police station saying words to the effect of if you can prove that i went through the light i will pay the fine but if you cant i wont.

I think fixed penalty of £60 plus 3 points. Sadly as young driver it might lead to a loading on renewal . but you can start shopping around now so that you can start to save up for any increase und get the best deal available to you. Read the small prints to ascertain which ist best deal though und discuss properly with your parents especially if they are helping you with your finances.

I think if one officer und perhaps more saw you go through the red light .. then they can prove this was the case.

You were temporarily distracted .. und unfortunately at a pelican crossing. You were lucky that no one on crossing at time.

Chalk to experience und tell your friends that you will not put up with drunken behaviour which compromises your safety und driving licence if passenger in your car. If they cannot respect your rules .. then they do not get free taxi service in your car.. at expense of YOUR running costs.

Far better to club together to share a taxi.. with driver more used to ferrying drunks home. who will turf out at first signs of trouble too.

[Parrot of Doom]

wideload said:

"Oh, I wasn't watching where I was driving, I got pulled, the copper wouldn't let me off so I started being a cheeky and uncooperative, the copper then told me to off!"

Get over yourself. You were a cheeky sod, the copper verbally slapped a bit of sense into you, and now you're whinging about it as though hes infringed your human rights.

Next time, pay attention and look where you're driving. If you make a mistake and get pulled, don't give any attitude. Next time, try a bit of "Yes constable, no constable, I'm sorry constable, honestly I don't know mate", etc. Maybe if you do that, you'll get let off with a warning.

[BigBob]

wideload said:

....... and just asking the sort of questions you would ask a referee in a game of football when they have just given a bad decision.

May I suggest that in future you talk to Police Officers more the way you would talk to a RUGBY referree.

Get stroppy with them and it's a Yellow or Red Card and you're out of the game.

Same principle with the police - get stroppy with them again and you'll be off the road.




BB

[Slaav]

I can also recommend the 'rugby' approach. Funny how the OP used the football referee as a kind of defence.... The way I see people talking to refs in oik ball, I am surprised the OP wasnt locked up and given a discreet slap!

[Bing o]

Wayne Rooney said:

off ref - eh ref - off - you ing wanker - ing look ref, for s sake you ing wanker

Ronan O'Gara said:

I am terribly sorry for gouging my opponent Sir

I see what you mean!!

[Phone_monkey]

I've always found the humble approach works best in all cases. Anyway, the event has passed now, you'll get the points and it WILL hike your insurance up. I would take Wildcat's advice, drive like a saint and next time your mate gets that hammered just stick him in the back (make sure he is belted up too) or tell him to get a cab. Live and learn, at least you didn't actually hit anyone, which would have landed you in a world of ****