Private Members Bill to Outlaw Motorcycle Racing?
Discussion
Apologies for the long post.
Pointed out on another forum. If this article is accurate, anyone with any interst in track or off road bikes / cars / vehicles might need to write to their MP sharpish:
www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...t/mfbike17.xml
A bill currently before Parliament could have a devastating effect on motorcycling, as Frank Melling reports
We all know that well-intentioned actions can sometimes bring unintended results. But few events in motoring history would be as spectacular as the potential fall-out from The Off-Road Vehicles Registration Bill proposed by MP Graham Stringer (Labour, Manchester Blackley).
Motorbike
Wipe out: to combat the anti-social use of mini-motos by making it an offence to own any bike without a number plate would criminalise bike racers and enthusiasts
That Mr Stringer's basic idea was harmless enough is beyond dispute. Annoyed by feckless youths irritating his constituents on mini-moto bikes, he felt that if all these tiny motorcycles had to carry number plates then the police could arrest the miscreants and the nuisance would stop.
Many thought that he was being naive at best. The bikes were already being ridden illegally, and simply adding a rear number plate wasn't going to help. It was a shallow and simplistic proposal, but it was harmless enough, so no one took much notice.
As always, however, the devil was in the detail. Or, in this case, the lack of detail. The Bill is drafted in such a way that it covers all motorcycles. In simple terms, it insists that every motorcycle should comply with the Road Traffic Act (RTA).
There is absolutely no exemption, and the DVLA in Swansea insists that a registration mark can only be issued to an RTA-compliant vehicle. So whether it is Valentino Rossi's 2007 MotoGP Yamaha or a classic racer, an Edwardian museum exhibit or a gold-plated custom show bike, the proposals mean it will have to be fitted with number plates and made RTA-compliant or face confiscation and destruction.
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The police already have such powers, although they are rarely used. But Mr Stringer's Bill would make it a criminal offence even to possess an unregistered motorcycle, of any type or description, under any circumstances. Even if the bike were an objet d'art in your bedroom, it would have to be registered.
The Bill as it stands would therefore kill British motorcycle racing at a stroke. It is impossible to make most racing bikes RTA-compliant (consider the aerodynamic consequences of fitting a number plate to a 200mph MotoGP machine) and it would be an offence to race any that was not registered. Custom and classic events would be equally devastated and museums would be liable to prosecution if they displayed any bike that did not carry a DVLA registration. What's more, the Bill makes no mention of compensation for confiscation. One can only imagine the reaction of someone who has a £100,000 racing bike in the garage if the authorities try to remove it.
The political parties are in disarray about what to do with this ill-conceived and poorly thought-out piece of legislation. Mr Stringer himself seems confused and bemused by the reaction. His response to my questions was to ask whether I was "pig ignorant" about parliamentary procedure, then terminate the conversation.
Alistair Carmichael, the Lib Dem spokesman on transport and MP for Orkney and Shetland, was willing to listen but equally confused. This is particularly worrying because the Lib Dems are the main supporters of the Bill. Mr Carmichael feels that a system of exemptions would be the way forward. This is topsy-turvy, given that the exemptions would have to cover everything except illegally used mini-motos.
On March 2 the Bill was passed by a large majority at second reading, and only when I repeatedly pressed the Conservatives this week did transport spokesman Chris Grayling declare that they would oppose it at third reading: "It is certainly far too wide-ranging," he said, "and while there is a case for strong action against mini-motos, this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut." The Department for Transport also claims to oppose the Bill but refuses to say why, and none of the other parties bothered to respond. Such complacency is disappointing, given that the future of an industry is at stake. Is it any wonder we end up with bad laws?
The best way forward is surely to scrap the Bill entirely. It is an ill-conceived, simplistic piece of legislation that does not deserve to reach the statute books. Is a yob illegally using a mini-moto really going to add a number plate so that he can more easily be prosecuted? Will his long-suffering neighbours rest easier in the knowledge that museum-bound Edwardian tricycles are being road-registered? One wonders what planet our politicians inhabit.
If the Bill cannot be stopped altogether, then Telegraph Motoring wishes to suggest a simple amendment, viz: "All vehicles used in a place to which the public have free and open access must be RTA compliant and carry a registration plate, unless they are participating in an Approved Event." An Approved Event is a licensed motorsport event - car or bike - and already covered under current legislation.
You might look at this amendment and say, with a degree of justification, that it merely reiterates current law. Yet if such an amendment is not included in the Bill, the future of motorcycle sport in Britain looks bleak at best, with a maze of bureaucratic red tape for racers, custom bike builders and museum owners. At worst, the five-page Bill would wipe out motorcycling as we know it.
I would add one final comment. Those in the car community who think that this affects only bikes and is therefore not their problem should be very careful. Once motorcycle sport has been destroyed, how long do you think it will be before four-wheeled motorsport is targeted? If the Bill were to include quad bikes, which are also capable of causing a nuisance on the wrong hands, then cars, karts and the like might eventually end up in exactly the same position as motorcycles.
Mr Stringer's Bill is now entering the committee stage. Please write now to your MP at The House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA, and ask him or her to oppose it, for the sake of justice and common sense.
Pointed out on another forum. If this article is accurate, anyone with any interst in track or off road bikes / cars / vehicles might need to write to their MP sharpish:
www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...t/mfbike17.xml
A bill currently before Parliament could have a devastating effect on motorcycling, as Frank Melling reports
We all know that well-intentioned actions can sometimes bring unintended results. But few events in motoring history would be as spectacular as the potential fall-out from The Off-Road Vehicles Registration Bill proposed by MP Graham Stringer (Labour, Manchester Blackley).
Motorbike
Wipe out: to combat the anti-social use of mini-motos by making it an offence to own any bike without a number plate would criminalise bike racers and enthusiasts
That Mr Stringer's basic idea was harmless enough is beyond dispute. Annoyed by feckless youths irritating his constituents on mini-moto bikes, he felt that if all these tiny motorcycles had to carry number plates then the police could arrest the miscreants and the nuisance would stop.
Many thought that he was being naive at best. The bikes were already being ridden illegally, and simply adding a rear number plate wasn't going to help. It was a shallow and simplistic proposal, but it was harmless enough, so no one took much notice.
As always, however, the devil was in the detail. Or, in this case, the lack of detail. The Bill is drafted in such a way that it covers all motorcycles. In simple terms, it insists that every motorcycle should comply with the Road Traffic Act (RTA).
There is absolutely no exemption, and the DVLA in Swansea insists that a registration mark can only be issued to an RTA-compliant vehicle. So whether it is Valentino Rossi's 2007 MotoGP Yamaha or a classic racer, an Edwardian museum exhibit or a gold-plated custom show bike, the proposals mean it will have to be fitted with number plates and made RTA-compliant or face confiscation and destruction.
advertisement
The police already have such powers, although they are rarely used. But Mr Stringer's Bill would make it a criminal offence even to possess an unregistered motorcycle, of any type or description, under any circumstances. Even if the bike were an objet d'art in your bedroom, it would have to be registered.
The Bill as it stands would therefore kill British motorcycle racing at a stroke. It is impossible to make most racing bikes RTA-compliant (consider the aerodynamic consequences of fitting a number plate to a 200mph MotoGP machine) and it would be an offence to race any that was not registered. Custom and classic events would be equally devastated and museums would be liable to prosecution if they displayed any bike that did not carry a DVLA registration. What's more, the Bill makes no mention of compensation for confiscation. One can only imagine the reaction of someone who has a £100,000 racing bike in the garage if the authorities try to remove it.
The political parties are in disarray about what to do with this ill-conceived and poorly thought-out piece of legislation. Mr Stringer himself seems confused and bemused by the reaction. His response to my questions was to ask whether I was "pig ignorant" about parliamentary procedure, then terminate the conversation.
Alistair Carmichael, the Lib Dem spokesman on transport and MP for Orkney and Shetland, was willing to listen but equally confused. This is particularly worrying because the Lib Dems are the main supporters of the Bill. Mr Carmichael feels that a system of exemptions would be the way forward. This is topsy-turvy, given that the exemptions would have to cover everything except illegally used mini-motos.
On March 2 the Bill was passed by a large majority at second reading, and only when I repeatedly pressed the Conservatives this week did transport spokesman Chris Grayling declare that they would oppose it at third reading: "It is certainly far too wide-ranging," he said, "and while there is a case for strong action against mini-motos, this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut." The Department for Transport also claims to oppose the Bill but refuses to say why, and none of the other parties bothered to respond. Such complacency is disappointing, given that the future of an industry is at stake. Is it any wonder we end up with bad laws?
The best way forward is surely to scrap the Bill entirely. It is an ill-conceived, simplistic piece of legislation that does not deserve to reach the statute books. Is a yob illegally using a mini-moto really going to add a number plate so that he can more easily be prosecuted? Will his long-suffering neighbours rest easier in the knowledge that museum-bound Edwardian tricycles are being road-registered? One wonders what planet our politicians inhabit.
If the Bill cannot be stopped altogether, then Telegraph Motoring wishes to suggest a simple amendment, viz: "All vehicles used in a place to which the public have free and open access must be RTA compliant and carry a registration plate, unless they are participating in an Approved Event." An Approved Event is a licensed motorsport event - car or bike - and already covered under current legislation.
You might look at this amendment and say, with a degree of justification, that it merely reiterates current law. Yet if such an amendment is not included in the Bill, the future of motorcycle sport in Britain looks bleak at best, with a maze of bureaucratic red tape for racers, custom bike builders and museum owners. At worst, the five-page Bill would wipe out motorcycling as we know it.
I would add one final comment. Those in the car community who think that this affects only bikes and is therefore not their problem should be very careful. Once motorcycle sport has been destroyed, how long do you think it will be before four-wheeled motorsport is targeted? If the Bill were to include quad bikes, which are also capable of causing a nuisance on the wrong hands, then cars, karts and the like might eventually end up in exactly the same position as motorcycles.
Mr Stringer's Bill is now entering the committee stage. Please write now to your MP at The House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA, and ask him or her to oppose it, for the sake of justice and common sense.
eliminator said:
Done mine as well. What is scary is that it's got as far as it has.
Based on a tiny minority of criminal scum doing something antisocial, a whole swathe of perfectly legal and responsible people are now at risk of having to comply with unnecessary and draconian legislation.
Imagine if every drinker in the country had to register with the authorities to have a quick pint or a nip of whisky, based on the fact that teenagers buy cans of lager illegally and make noise or violence on the street corner.
Welcome to modern Britain
Parrot of Doom said:
If this silly law gets past the Lords (which I doubt), I think the police would just ignore it anyway.
Doubt if they would - some might until they were instructed to go all out and enforce it.
We're told often enough the police don't decide which laws to enforce. There have been many examples in the past of badly drafted legislation being used for purposes for which it was never intended once either politician's or Senior Officers realised what a weapon they had.
BB
Once upon a time in this country you could trust the police to interpret the law as given and apply it in a sensible way in a given situation.
This being the case laws like this would probably be a bit nanny state but good intentioned, and probably workable.
But in this day and age where it seems like the police use little discretion in interpreting any law then yes its a problem. I will write as well.
This being the case laws like this would probably be a bit nanny state but good intentioned, and probably workable.
But in this day and age where it seems like the police use little discretion in interpreting any law then yes its a problem. I will write as well.
Just sent this to my MP, we'll see what his responce will be....
Dear Tony Cunningham,
The Off-Road Vehicles Registration Bill proposed by MP Graham Stringer
(Labour, Manchester Blackley).
This has got to be the most mis-thought out Bill ever put before the
House.
Its like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
The police already have powers to confiscate these illegally
ridden mini motos and if the right honourable gentleman thinks this
Bill will stop youngsters from riding them by forcing them to register
them and put a registration plate on he is living in cloud cuckoo land.
All the Bill will do is cause major problems from law abiding citizens
like myself who own and have owned for many years off road motorcycles.
My classic racer which is a track racing bike is nor designed for road
use but under this new Bill I will have to get it road legal and mot'd
to get a registration number then apply for a SORN. This is for a
dedicated off road bike!! I also take it all the costs incurred to
achieve this will be at my expense.
I also have a trials bike and motocross bike, both dedicated off road
bikes and making these road legal would be nigh on impossible and
totally unnecessary. Why should 99.99% of law abiding citizens get
penalised for a small mindless minority who will not obey the current
law, so are not likely to comply to the new proposed one.
I would like to also point out that if this Bill was, heaven forbid, to
go through unchecked we in the UK can kiss goodbye to every major and
minor motorcycle event. Moto GP, World Superbikes etc etc will not
come to this country! All British Motorcycle racing as it currently
run will cease to exist.
I hope you can look into it and talk some common sense into Mr Stringer
because this is not the right way to tackle the problem.
Dear Tony Cunningham,
The Off-Road Vehicles Registration Bill proposed by MP Graham Stringer
(Labour, Manchester Blackley).
This has got to be the most mis-thought out Bill ever put before the
House.
Its like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
The police already have powers to confiscate these illegally
ridden mini motos and if the right honourable gentleman thinks this
Bill will stop youngsters from riding them by forcing them to register
them and put a registration plate on he is living in cloud cuckoo land.
All the Bill will do is cause major problems from law abiding citizens
like myself who own and have owned for many years off road motorcycles.
My classic racer which is a track racing bike is nor designed for road
use but under this new Bill I will have to get it road legal and mot'd
to get a registration number then apply for a SORN. This is for a
dedicated off road bike!! I also take it all the costs incurred to
achieve this will be at my expense.
I also have a trials bike and motocross bike, both dedicated off road
bikes and making these road legal would be nigh on impossible and
totally unnecessary. Why should 99.99% of law abiding citizens get
penalised for a small mindless minority who will not obey the current
law, so are not likely to comply to the new proposed one.
I would like to also point out that if this Bill was, heaven forbid, to
go through unchecked we in the UK can kiss goodbye to every major and
minor motorcycle event. Moto GP, World Superbikes etc etc will not
come to this country! All British Motorcycle racing as it currently
run will cease to exist.
I hope you can look into it and talk some common sense into Mr Stringer
because this is not the right way to tackle the problem.
I'd almost be tempted to allow the Government to pass the law as it has been drafted.
It's bad law alright. If Parliament passed it onto the statute books, then
a) Motorcycle racing would continue just as it does now
b) The Police would never bother to start arresting riders at events - can you imagine them trying?
c) This current Parliament would be (once again) exposed as the bunch of collective imbeciles that they are, and the law would be repealed very quickly following a very public drubbing in the press.
Bring it on, I say...
p.s. I loved the bit in the article where Alastair Carmichael (Lib Dem, Transport) became "confused" when the objection to the law was discussed with him. What kind of retards do we have at Westminster?
It's bad law alright. If Parliament passed it onto the statute books, then
a) Motorcycle racing would continue just as it does now
b) The Police would never bother to start arresting riders at events - can you imagine them trying?
c) This current Parliament would be (once again) exposed as the bunch of collective imbeciles that they are, and the law would be repealed very quickly following a very public drubbing in the press.
Bring it on, I say...
p.s. I loved the bit in the article where Alastair Carmichael (Lib Dem, Transport) became "confused" when the objection to the law was discussed with him. What kind of retards do we have at Westminster?
Edited by corozin on Saturday 24th March 01:01
Reading the OP it appears that DVLA can only issue a registration mark to a RTA compliant vehicle. This seems to have escaped the attention of the proposer as the full text of the proposed Act ( www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmbills/021/2007021.pdf ) makes no mention of RTA compliance, simply that off road motorcycles and quads would need to be registered. The fact that DVLA don't think they can might cause a problem (although I can't see what difference RTA compliance would make, if they have a manufacturers name and frame number surely that would be enough?).
Adding a clause exempting vehicles used at organised events would still have serious consequences. I used to race motorcross and it was a regular occurance for a group of us to practice on days when there was no organised event. This was either on a piece of privately owned land with the landowners consent or on a piece of land that was used for organised events but at a time when no event had been organised. Under no circumstances would either of these be allowable under such an exemption.
Also, when does a non-RTA compliant quadbike become an off road trials special for instance?
Adding a clause exempting vehicles used at organised events would still have serious consequences. I used to race motorcross and it was a regular occurance for a group of us to practice on days when there was no organised event. This was either on a piece of privately owned land with the landowners consent or on a piece of land that was used for organised events but at a time when no event had been organised. Under no circumstances would either of these be allowable under such an exemption.
Also, when does a non-RTA compliant quadbike become an off road trials special for instance?
From Today's Telegraph ...
Motorcycle bill roars on towards disaster
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 24/03/2007
A week might be a long time in politics but it seems to be an incredibly short time in which to persuade politicians that they are making a huge mistake, writes Frank Melling
Last week, Telegraph Motoring reported on Graham Stringer's Off-Road Vehicles Registration Bill, which is supposed to curb the illegal use of mini-motos but is so ill-conceived that motorcycles of any description would have to carry number plates and comply with the Road Traffic Act.
At a stroke, the bill would destroy the British motorcycle-racing industry, decimate museums, kill off custom and classic bike shows and, as a by-product, render farmers liable to prosecution for using agricultural quad bikes. Not a bad morning's work for a backbench politician.
As demonstrated by the online reader responses to our report (see www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring), a huge outcry has greeted this shallow, inept proposal, yet there has been no apology or promise to rectify the errors that it contains. Despite a number of requests, the Department for Transport (DfT) still refuses to reveal what it will do to save the British motorcycle industry, saying: "This whole thing [Mr Stringer's Bill] is to be looked at in the committee stage and we wouldn't want to comment further on its effects and any possible amendments until then." The Liberal Democrats, the arch supporters of Mr Stringer's Bill, have adopted the same position. In fact, the situation now looks even worse. The DfT does not have a definition of non-type-approved quad bikes, so it is possible that leisure and even racing karts could be classified as quads by careless lawmakers or zealous police officers. Some military vehicles will also fall under the remit of the bill.
Reading through the speeches from the most recent debate (go to www.theyworkforyou.com, click on March 2 and look for the Off Road Vehicles Registration Bill), MPs' lack of basic technical knowledge is shocking. Mr Stringer also offered the ludicrous opinion that "Many of those vehicles initially used by responsible farmers or organised racers end up being used by irresponsible people".
By all means add your comments to those at the bottom of last week's article or sign the online petition at www.petitions.pm.gov.uk, but above all please write now to your MP at The House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA or send an email (try www.writetothem.com) and ask him or her to oppose the bill. We can no longer assume that common sense will prevail.
Motorcycle bill roars on towards disaster
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 24/03/2007
A week might be a long time in politics but it seems to be an incredibly short time in which to persuade politicians that they are making a huge mistake, writes Frank Melling
Last week, Telegraph Motoring reported on Graham Stringer's Off-Road Vehicles Registration Bill, which is supposed to curb the illegal use of mini-motos but is so ill-conceived that motorcycles of any description would have to carry number plates and comply with the Road Traffic Act.
At a stroke, the bill would destroy the British motorcycle-racing industry, decimate museums, kill off custom and classic bike shows and, as a by-product, render farmers liable to prosecution for using agricultural quad bikes. Not a bad morning's work for a backbench politician.
As demonstrated by the online reader responses to our report (see www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring), a huge outcry has greeted this shallow, inept proposal, yet there has been no apology or promise to rectify the errors that it contains. Despite a number of requests, the Department for Transport (DfT) still refuses to reveal what it will do to save the British motorcycle industry, saying: "This whole thing [Mr Stringer's Bill] is to be looked at in the committee stage and we wouldn't want to comment further on its effects and any possible amendments until then." The Liberal Democrats, the arch supporters of Mr Stringer's Bill, have adopted the same position. In fact, the situation now looks even worse. The DfT does not have a definition of non-type-approved quad bikes, so it is possible that leisure and even racing karts could be classified as quads by careless lawmakers or zealous police officers. Some military vehicles will also fall under the remit of the bill.
Reading through the speeches from the most recent debate (go to www.theyworkforyou.com, click on March 2 and look for the Off Road Vehicles Registration Bill), MPs' lack of basic technical knowledge is shocking. Mr Stringer also offered the ludicrous opinion that "Many of those vehicles initially used by responsible farmers or organised racers end up being used by irresponsible people".
By all means add your comments to those at the bottom of last week's article or sign the online petition at www.petitions.pm.gov.uk, but above all please write now to your MP at The House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA or send an email (try www.writetothem.com) and ask him or her to oppose the bill. We can no longer assume that common sense will prevail.
eliminator said:
Got a reply from my MP yesterday.
He says it's not likely to become law due to other business in the current session, at least not without Government support.
He says it's not likely to become law due to other business in the current session, at least not without Government support.
How long did it take for them to get back to you? I'm wondering when I should be chasing my MP for a response...
Storm in a teacup. Private member's bills like this never get anywhere near the statute books. The reason it is a pile of crap is because it is drafted by one bloke in isolation. If this had been a government proposal, DoT civil servants would have worked on it and it wouldn't have made such an obvious error.
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