"Cameras under spotlight as more drivers exceed limit"
Discussion
That's the headline from the Daily Mail (Puts on flame-proof jacket)
www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=446865&in_page_id=1770
A few interesting statistics are mentioned:
"In 2006, a total of 28 per cent of car drivers exceeded the speed limit on 40mph built-up roads - an increase of 4 per cent on the 2005 level."
"The statistics also showed that 49 per cent of all car drivers exceeded limits on 30mph built-up roads in 2006"
"The average speed recorded for articulated HGVs on [major, non-built-up single carriageway roads] in 2006 was 46mph, just 2mph less than the average speed of cars (48mph), for which the limit on these roads is 60mph."
Are these figures official confirmation that the UK driving population is being overrun by the often-seen "42mph everywhere" brigade clogging up our roads?
Discuss......
www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=446865&in_page_id=1770
A few interesting statistics are mentioned:
"In 2006, a total of 28 per cent of car drivers exceeded the speed limit on 40mph built-up roads - an increase of 4 per cent on the 2005 level."
"The statistics also showed that 49 per cent of all car drivers exceeded limits on 30mph built-up roads in 2006"
"The average speed recorded for articulated HGVs on [major, non-built-up single carriageway roads] in 2006 was 46mph, just 2mph less than the average speed of cars (48mph), for which the limit on these roads is 60mph."
Are these figures official confirmation that the UK driving population is being overrun by the often-seen "42mph everywhere" brigade clogging up our roads?
Discuss......
Far more interesting IMHO
...and why could this be?
Because speed cameras can't adjust for a HGV vs car like a BiB can and so we need more BiB and fewer camera...which will also pick up dangerous driving that is not speed related
Daily Mail said:
The average speed recorded for articulated HGVs on these [NSL] roads in 2006was 46mph, just 2mph less than the average speed of cars (48mph), for which the limit on these roads is 60mph.
The survey also showed a high incidence of speeding by HGVs on 30mph roads in 2006, with 44 per cent of 2-axle HGVs exceeding the speed limit, 15 per cent by more than 5mph. This compares with 46 per cent and 18 per cent respectively in 2005.
The survey also showed a high incidence of speeding by HGVs on 30mph roads in 2006, with 44 per cent of 2-axle HGVs exceeding the speed limit, 15 per cent by more than 5mph. This compares with 46 per cent and 18 per cent respectively in 2005.
...and why could this be?
Because speed cameras can't adjust for a HGV vs car like a BiB can and so we need more BiB and fewer camera...which will also pick up dangerous driving that is not speed related
Actually, some gatso's can tell the difference between cars and hgv's. I didn't know at the time i got caught, nearly three years ago doing 49mph at 4am on the A40 in a 44 tonner. The stretch i got caught on was 60mph for cars (single carriageway) 40mph for hgv's. Atb Derek.
Edited by winnebago nut on Friday 6th April 02:32
As usual with the media, only half the story is told. Consider these points:
Every day, new speed limits are introduced – many of them are inappropriately low.
The police themselves accept that inappropriate speed limits lead to a “lower level of self-compliance” In other words, a 30 limit that “ought” to be 40 or 50 or NSL (I can think of a fair few, especially in Oxfordshire and Somerset) are likely to be ignored by a higher proportion of drivers, who consider themselves to be driving safely according to the prevailing road conditions, not the number that is painted on a bit of tin on a pole by the side of the road.
Hardly surprising that there is an “increase in speeding” then, is it?
Every day, new speed limits are introduced – many of them are inappropriately low.
The police themselves accept that inappropriate speed limits lead to a “lower level of self-compliance” In other words, a 30 limit that “ought” to be 40 or 50 or NSL (I can think of a fair few, especially in Oxfordshire and Somerset) are likely to be ignored by a higher proportion of drivers, who consider themselves to be driving safely according to the prevailing road conditions, not the number that is painted on a bit of tin on a pole by the side of the road.
Hardly surprising that there is an “increase in speeding” then, is it?
Strange ?
Posted this earlier & tells a different story
Who to believe ?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=376377&p=1
We don't seem to have that problem in Dorset ...
www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/bournemouthnews/display.var.1314639.0.speed_camera_fear_is_working.php
Speed camera fear is working
By Joanna Codd
FOR the first time in a decade, more than half of car drivers are keeping to the 30mph speed limit in built-up areas, possibly because they fear being caught by speed cameras.
The Department of Transport has revealed that the proportion of drivers busting the limit fell from 72 per cent in 1996 to 49 per cent last year. Pedestrian deaths were also down by a third, to 671 in 2005.
Cllr Brian Leverett, leader of Poole council, welcomed the news. "It's good news that people are driving within the law, however, there's no room for complacency," he said.
"There are still many roads within the borough of Poole where drivers are dangerously exceeding speed limits.
"Speed in urban areas does remain a concern to many residents. A small percentage of drivers are irresponsible."
A Bournemouth taxi driver, who asked not to be named, said: "My impression is the longer you drive, the more likely it is that you're going to pick up points. Once you've been had for £60, you're going to slow down. I see a lot of speeding in a number of places. If you go at 30mph, it just seems so slow."
Poole motorist Michael Jones, 44, said: "It could be because there's more traffic. You're only as fast as the next traffic queue. I think I've slowed down. I've got a fast car, but I don't feel the need to speed."
The Department of Transport monitored different types of vehicle in free-moving traffic on several types of road, taking measurements away from speed cameras. It found 19 per cent of drivers travelled faster than 35mph in built-up areas, compared to 37 per cent in 1996.
But the proportion travelling more than 10mph above the limit on motorways was down by only two per cent, to 17 per cent.
Three-quarters of HGV drivers broke their 40mph limit on main single carriageway out-of-town roads, where drivers can go at 60mph.
www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/bournemouthnews/display.var.1314639.0.speed_camera_fear_is_working.php
Speed camera fear is working
By Joanna Codd
FOR the first time in a decade, more than half of car drivers are keeping to the 30mph speed limit in built-up areas, possibly because they fear being caught by speed cameras.
The Department of Transport has revealed that the proportion of drivers busting the limit fell from 72 per cent in 1996 to 49 per cent last year. Pedestrian deaths were also down by a third, to 671 in 2005.
Cllr Brian Leverett, leader of Poole council, welcomed the news. "It's good news that people are driving within the law, however, there's no room for complacency," he said.
"There are still many roads within the borough of Poole where drivers are dangerously exceeding speed limits.
"Speed in urban areas does remain a concern to many residents. A small percentage of drivers are irresponsible."
A Bournemouth taxi driver, who asked not to be named, said: "My impression is the longer you drive, the more likely it is that you're going to pick up points. Once you've been had for £60, you're going to slow down. I see a lot of speeding in a number of places. If you go at 30mph, it just seems so slow."
Poole motorist Michael Jones, 44, said: "It could be because there's more traffic. You're only as fast as the next traffic queue. I think I've slowed down. I've got a fast car, but I don't feel the need to speed."
The Department of Transport monitored different types of vehicle in free-moving traffic on several types of road, taking measurements away from speed cameras. It found 19 per cent of drivers travelled faster than 35mph in built-up areas, compared to 37 per cent in 1996.
But the proportion travelling more than 10mph above the limit on motorways was down by only two per cent, to 17 per cent.
Three-quarters of HGV drivers broke their 40mph limit on main single carriageway out-of-town roads, where drivers can go at 60mph.
Here's the Safe Speed PR on the issue sent on Tursday am:
PR467: We're still speeding. DfT is playing 'let's pretend' with our lives.
news: for immediate release
'Vehicle Speeds in Great Britain 2006' [1] published today by Department for
Transport indicates that we're still speeding is huge numbers despite about 15
years of speed cameras.
The dream for speed cameras was that they would change our behaviour. But in
the last 15 years the proportion of car drivers 'speeding' on most road types
has stayed roughly the same.
Examples:
Road type 1994 2006
Motorways 47% 53%
Dual Carriageways 40% 45%
Single Carriageways 10% 10%
30mph speed limit 69% 50%
40mph speed limit 31% 27%
[ 1994 figures from VSGB 1997 [2] ]
The only significant change is in 30mph speed limits, and the largest part of
that change is associated with a change in data gathering technique in 2002.
But the amazing fact that Department for Transport ignore is that despite more
than half of car drivers speeding on most road types, Department for Transport
figures show that only 5% of all injury crashes include ANY SPEEDING VEHILCE
[3].
This 10:1 under-representation of speeding in the injury crash statistics gives
the lie to the whole idea that 'speeding causes crashes'.
Paul Smith, founder of www.safespeed.org.uk, said: "Department for
Transport are playing 'let's pretend' with road safety and with our lives.
Their own figures show that speeding is ten times more commonplace on the roads
than in the crash statistics. That PROVES that there's an awful lot of vehicles
out there exceeding the speed limit in perfect safety."
"Of course the truth is that we are adjusting our speed to suit the conditions.
When the road is clear we go faster. When there are hazards about - and the
risk of crashes increases - we naturally slow down. Adjusting speed to the
conditions underpins the whole of road safety."
"We're still speeding despite 15 years of speed cameras. The reason is simple.
We adjust our speed according to the conditions. It's the essence of road
safety and a behaviour that Department for Transport must encourage, not deny.
"Speed cameras have FAILED to influence behaviour. They have FAILED to make
the roads safer. They have STOLEN life saving resources at every level in our
road safety system and made the roads MORE DANGEROUS. No wonder our 10 Downing
Street petition has already gathered over 20,000 signatures. Every motorist
should sign it today at: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/scrapcam .
"Of course driving like a nutter is dangerous. Everyone knows that. Nutters
might drive fast and cause horrific crashes. But it's not exceeding the speed
limit that causes the crash - it's driving like a nutter. The behaviours - and
the solutions - are entirely different."
<ends>
Notes for editors
=================
[1] VSGB2006:
www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/roadstraffic/speedscongestion/vehiclespeedsgb/statrelease06
[2] VSGB 1997 no longer available from Department for Transport. But you can
download Safe Speed's VSGB archive from:
www.safespeed.org.uk/vsgb.zip
[3] See table 6 in RCGB contrib factors:
www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/casualtiesgbar/coll_roadcasualtiesgreatbritain2/contributoryfactorstoroadacc1802
PR467: We're still speeding. DfT is playing 'let's pretend' with our lives.
news: for immediate release
'Vehicle Speeds in Great Britain 2006' [1] published today by Department for
Transport indicates that we're still speeding is huge numbers despite about 15
years of speed cameras.
The dream for speed cameras was that they would change our behaviour. But in
the last 15 years the proportion of car drivers 'speeding' on most road types
has stayed roughly the same.
Examples:
Road type 1994 2006
Motorways 47% 53%
Dual Carriageways 40% 45%
Single Carriageways 10% 10%
30mph speed limit 69% 50%
40mph speed limit 31% 27%
[ 1994 figures from VSGB 1997 [2] ]
The only significant change is in 30mph speed limits, and the largest part of
that change is associated with a change in data gathering technique in 2002.
But the amazing fact that Department for Transport ignore is that despite more
than half of car drivers speeding on most road types, Department for Transport
figures show that only 5% of all injury crashes include ANY SPEEDING VEHILCE
[3].
This 10:1 under-representation of speeding in the injury crash statistics gives
the lie to the whole idea that 'speeding causes crashes'.
Paul Smith, founder of www.safespeed.org.uk, said: "Department for
Transport are playing 'let's pretend' with road safety and with our lives.
Their own figures show that speeding is ten times more commonplace on the roads
than in the crash statistics. That PROVES that there's an awful lot of vehicles
out there exceeding the speed limit in perfect safety."
"Of course the truth is that we are adjusting our speed to suit the conditions.
When the road is clear we go faster. When there are hazards about - and the
risk of crashes increases - we naturally slow down. Adjusting speed to the
conditions underpins the whole of road safety."
"We're still speeding despite 15 years of speed cameras. The reason is simple.
We adjust our speed according to the conditions. It's the essence of road
safety and a behaviour that Department for Transport must encourage, not deny.
"Speed cameras have FAILED to influence behaviour. They have FAILED to make
the roads safer. They have STOLEN life saving resources at every level in our
road safety system and made the roads MORE DANGEROUS. No wonder our 10 Downing
Street petition has already gathered over 20,000 signatures. Every motorist
should sign it today at: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/scrapcam .
"Of course driving like a nutter is dangerous. Everyone knows that. Nutters
might drive fast and cause horrific crashes. But it's not exceeding the speed
limit that causes the crash - it's driving like a nutter. The behaviours - and
the solutions - are entirely different."
<ends>
Notes for editors
=================
[1] VSGB2006:
www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/roadstraffic/speedscongestion/vehiclespeedsgb/statrelease06
[2] VSGB 1997 no longer available from Department for Transport. But you can
download Safe Speed's VSGB archive from:
www.safespeed.org.uk/vsgb.zip
[3] See table 6 in RCGB contrib factors:
www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/casualtiesgbar/coll_roadcasualtiesgreatbritain2/contributoryfactorstoroadacc1802
KB_S1 said:
I await the cameras on a new road near me.
Used to be single carriageway NSL.
It is now a dual carriageway with 4 very wide lanes, very straight and excellent surface,
Speed limit is now 40!!!
Used to be single carriageway NSL.
It is now a dual carriageway with 4 very wide lanes, very straight and excellent surface,
Speed limit is now 40!!!
Complain to the council!
We need to get pro-active to the extent that councils are deprived of the "popular demand" excuse for stupidly low limits.
Major Bloodnok said:
Times report said:
The improvement in compliance appears to have contributed to a sharp fall in pedestrian deaths, down by a third in the past decade, from 997 in 1996 to 671 in 2005.
All together now...
"Correlation does not equal causation".
ESPECIALLY when the recent trend is actually SLOWER than the previous trend. Pedestrian fatalities fell by 41% in the decade before.
winnebago nut said:
Actually, some gatso's can tell the difference between cars and hgv's. I didn't know at the time i got caught, nearly three years ago doing 49mph at 4am on the A40 in a 44 tonner. The stretch i got caught on was 60mph for cars (single carriageway) 40mph for hgv's. Atb Derek.
Edited by winnebago nut on Friday 6th April 02:32
Driving a HGV in WARWICKSHIRE - be aware that the sleazie smilie camera pratnership set Gatso'S TO DETECT HGV speeds, and enforce the 40 limit on SC roads - or perhaps they realy need the cash.
[quote=who me ?]
Driving a HGV in WARWICKSHIRE - be aware that the sleazie smilie camera pratnership set Gatso'S TO DETECT HGV speeds, and enforce the 40 limit on SC roads - or perhaps they realy need the cash.
[/quote]
Don't be silly, the life-saving SCPs are obviously doing it to improve road safety and save kittens and puppies from dying!
Driving a HGV in WARWICKSHIRE - be aware that the sleazie smilie camera pratnership set Gatso'S TO DETECT HGV speeds, and enforce the 40 limit on SC roads - or perhaps they realy need the cash.
[/quote]
Don't be silly, the life-saving SCPs are obviously doing it to improve road safety and save kittens and puppies from dying!
fluffnik said:
KB_S1 said:
I await the cameras on a new road near me.
Used to be single carriageway NSL.
It is now a dual carriageway with 4 very wide lanes, very straight and excellent surface,
Speed limit is now 40!!!
Used to be single carriageway NSL.
It is now a dual carriageway with 4 very wide lanes, very straight and excellent surface,
Speed limit is now 40!!!
Complain to the council!
We need to get pro-active to the extent that councils are deprived of the "popular demand" excuse for stupidly low limits.
I will do a bit of background research and get some others to submit similar complaints.
Is there any official avenue/procedure for this?
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