Legal bods - would any of you mind PM me offline for advice?
Discussion
Regarding my hire car dispute...
Not having much luck over here, trying to understand what i can do to dispute the excess charge for damage to a car that i did not cause (and where there is a grey area that it was caused whilst i had the car too...). I have tried to speak to some solicitors here, but the big firms just say "sorry, sums of money involved aren't worth our legal costs..." and the smaller firms or those offering free legal advice are either too busy with no near appointments or have not yet called me back.
I was hoping if i emailed one of you offline with exactly what happened as i saw it, whether you could advise the next move. Even if you can advise on the contents of a strongly worded letter that would be a start. I don't want to just lay over and take this, but i also don't want to just end up on a slagging match on the phone with the company either...
Thanks in advance...
~PHIL
Not having much luck over here, trying to understand what i can do to dispute the excess charge for damage to a car that i did not cause (and where there is a grey area that it was caused whilst i had the car too...). I have tried to speak to some solicitors here, but the big firms just say "sorry, sums of money involved aren't worth our legal costs..." and the smaller firms or those offering free legal advice are either too busy with no near appointments or have not yet called me back.
I was hoping if i emailed one of you offline with exactly what happened as i saw it, whether you could advise the next move. Even if you can advise on the contents of a strongly worded letter that would be a start. I don't want to just lay over and take this, but i also don't want to just end up on a slagging match on the phone with the company either...
Thanks in advance...
~PHIL
Edited by Buffalo on Friday 13th April 23:24
I am not sure what the exact legal situation is in Aus, but I gather it is pretty similar to the UK.
Put it this way - if solicitors wont entertain legal action due to their costs, then it is also unlikely that the hire company will take you to court too!
But even if you do, a solicitor wont help you much. Court *can* be sucessfully negotiated by laymen. If it were taken to court, then you would give evidence that the car was handed back and they checked it themselves and said it was fine.
There is no legal obligation for this process to be in writing - unless in their T&Cs it says that you are only discharged of your duties when you receive written documentation... a possibility.
The fact is you have completed your side of the deal, it is their fault for not seeing the mark *even if* it were there when you handed the car back, in the same way if a mark were on the car which was not discovered in the pre-hire check was found during the hire - you would have been liable. They cant have it both ways!
The dent could have been caused any number of ways after your hire, perhaps one of hte young car cleaners put the bucket on top of the car whilst he was washing it!!!
Call their bluff and ask them to take you to court. You have been clear in your position, and in the outside chance they will, you also have a very strong case. I would put it as at least a 90% chance you will never have to pay a penny.
Put it this way - if solicitors wont entertain legal action due to their costs, then it is also unlikely that the hire company will take you to court too!
But even if you do, a solicitor wont help you much. Court *can* be sucessfully negotiated by laymen. If it were taken to court, then you would give evidence that the car was handed back and they checked it themselves and said it was fine.
There is no legal obligation for this process to be in writing - unless in their T&Cs it says that you are only discharged of your duties when you receive written documentation... a possibility.
The fact is you have completed your side of the deal, it is their fault for not seeing the mark *even if* it were there when you handed the car back, in the same way if a mark were on the car which was not discovered in the pre-hire check was found during the hire - you would have been liable. They cant have it both ways!
The dent could have been caused any number of ways after your hire, perhaps one of hte young car cleaners put the bucket on top of the car whilst he was washing it!!!
Call their bluff and ask them to take you to court. You have been clear in your position, and in the outside chance they will, you also have a very strong case. I would put it as at least a 90% chance you will never have to pay a penny.
But they have already removed a sum of money from my CC for the damage. They are "offering" to reimburse me the difference of this sum if i give approval for one of their quotes of repair to go ahead. In my opinion if i agree to this it is an admission of guilt.
The CC company weren't much help at having the sum removed - although my partner spoke to them, not me (card in her name)...
If they had not removed the money, i figured there is enough doubt for me to have some chance in court and i would have ventured that straight away. We'd be on even playing fields with mutual "grey areas". At the moment though, it seems to me that they hold the upper hand because they have my money... This is the bit i can't see a way through. I need some way of forcing them on the back foot.
The CC company weren't much help at having the sum removed - although my partner spoke to them, not me (card in her name)...
If they had not removed the money, i figured there is enough doubt for me to have some chance in court and i would have ventured that straight away. We'd be on even playing fields with mutual "grey areas". At the moment though, it seems to me that they hold the upper hand because they have my money... This is the bit i can't see a way through. I need some way of forcing them on the back foot.
Buffalo said:
But they have already removed a sum of money from my CC for the damage. They are "offering" to reimburse me the difference of this sum if i give approval for one of their quotes of repair to go ahead. In my opinion if i agree to this it is an admission of guilt.
The CC company weren't much help at having the sum removed - although my partner spoke to them, not me (card in her name)...
If they had not removed the money, i figured there is enough doubt for me to have some chance in court and i would have ventured that straight away. We'd be on even playing fields with mutual "grey areas". At the moment though, it seems to me that they hold the upper hand because they have my money... This is the bit i can't see a way through. I need some way of forcing them on the back foot.
The CC company weren't much help at having the sum removed - although my partner spoke to them, not me (card in her name)...
If they had not removed the money, i figured there is enough doubt for me to have some chance in court and i would have ventured that straight away. We'd be on even playing fields with mutual "grey areas". At the moment though, it seems to me that they hold the upper hand because they have my money... This is the bit i can't see a way through. I need some way of forcing them on the back foot.
Ahhh sorry,
I just remembered the bit from your thread where you had contacted the credit card company.
You are right though, the money is the leverage. You are also right that accepting their claim may also be seen as an admission of guilt, but also after the work is done, they know full well that they are fine and you will most likely accept that you wont get the money back.
To get them on the back foot I would put your situation in writing firstly so that there is proof of your postion and how it is explained to them. This will help you if things get legal. I would state that the car was checked and accepted back in perfect condition, and you regard that deductions from you account are unlawful after this point and that you will be taking the issue up with your card company and/or taking *them* to court for your money back.
I would also ask for photos of the suposed damage.
That may solve it, if not I would be pressing the card company for the money, not one of the minions as they dont know what they are talking about apart from they want to covert their companies arse so they wont help.
In the UK credit companies are joinly responsible for anything bought on credit under the Consumer Credit Act, this may be an avenue in order to force them to give your money back, that would be my way forward, getting the money back is the key. If need be, report it as fraud - which in effect it is if they have accepted the car back already - your contract ended there. After that point they are taking unauthorised sums from your card.
Thanks - this is sort of the line i wanted going to take, i just felt i needed some sort of "legal" clarification as to whether it was a valid manner. I will speak to the CC fraud people myself to clarify their stance.
Thanks again!
Feel a bit more foccussed now and will attempt a draft to the hire company...
Thanks again!
Feel a bit more foccussed now and will attempt a draft to the hire company...I’m not sure that the contract really ends at return of the car since there can be other later reasons for charging additional sums to the card e.g. parking tickets. The acceptance of the car on its return appears to be a cut off point for that aspect of the hire and I would personally focus on that, but there may be something in the small print about this. I’m no lawyer.
herewego said:
I’m not sure that the contract really ends at return of the car since there can be other later reasons for charging additional sums to the card e.g. parking tickets. The acceptance of the car on its return appears to be a cut off point for that aspect of the hire and I would personally focus on that, but there may be something in the small print about this. I’m no lawyer.
This is probably correct - however those things (speeding tickets, parking tickets, etc) can all be proven that they occurred during a person's hire of teh vehicle. The damage that this car has received, i don't think can be proved to have been in my hire of the vehicle. At least that is the line i am going to pursue. I'll see how it goes...
Buffalo said:
herewego said:
I’m not sure that the contract really ends at return of the car since there can be other later reasons for charging additional sums to the card e.g. parking tickets. The acceptance of the car on its return appears to be a cut off point for that aspect of the hire and I would personally focus on that, but there may be something in the small print about this. I’m no lawyer.
This is probably correct - however those things (speeding tickets, parking tickets, etc) can all be proven that they occurred during a person's hire of teh vehicle. The damage that this car has received, i don't think can be proved to have been in my hire of the vehicle. At least that is the line i am going to pursue. I'll see how it goes...
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff