John Brignell numberwatch comments on the police and CPS

[Peter Ward]

I thought we might want to discuss this: www.numberwatch.co.uk/2007%20April.htm

John Brignell is the maintainer of an excellent website that takes a critical look at the misuse of statistics and other "junk science" such as global warming.

A few days ago his rotavator was stolen from his allotment shed. The link above, at "Just another couple of weeks in Blair’s Britain", describes his experience when reporting the crime. The subsequent addition, at "Police action!", describe his response at receiving a useless letter and flyer for the Criminal Justice System.

His comment on there being "more snoopers looking in my dustbin than there are police on the streets" is understandable. You will note that his concerns are not with the BiBs but with the system.

[nobleguy]

I thought it was a good analogy with the GDR sign - it's becoming like that.
Oh no, I can hear the thought police coming....time for 're-education'.

[chrispy porker]

So he reported a crime and got a standard letter.
So what?
Another lot of fuss about nothing if you ask me. I don't know who this chap is but he sounds a bit as if he has One Foot in the Grave.

[justinp1]

Its a good blog I think...

It is indeed a sad view of our govermental procedures that although it is now completely understood by all parties including insurers that small (and sometimes larger) thefts do not have the police manpower to investigate them.

However, there does seem to be the manpower to gather statistics of ethnicity of those who are reporting thefts and presumably a department - or indeed an expensive consultancy to create statistics to be reeled out in another budget grab/ justification / political psudoscientific scoring point.

By a strange co-incidence one of my friends from school is now working at the PR department of the Office of Statistics...

I am not sure if she is aware of the direct simile with the protagonist of 1984, or indeed that was supposed to be a vision of Orwellian distopia... not a reality of Blair's Britain...

[Peter Ward]

chrispy porker said:

So he reported a crime and got a standard letter.
So what?
Another lot of fuss about nothing if you ask me. I don't know who this chap is but he sounds a bit as if he has One Foot in the Grave.

That's not like you, CP. Look at what he's saying. He reported a crime and all he got was a standard letter, including a flyer telling him about victim support -- a charity staffed by volunteers.

Imagine if you bought a new car, and then it broke. You call the dealer to get it fixed, and all they do is give you a reference number that allows you to claim a new one if you're properly insured. You then get a flyer telling you how you can call someone else to get some counselling.

Not an exact parallel, but there are still people in this country who think that the police are there to catch robbers rather than to fill in forms so that they don't have time to catch robbers.

Only this weekend I talked to a friend and learned about her son whose car keys were stolen, along with 3 others' who lived in the same house. The next night they immobilised all cars and set a watch. When the thieves returned they immediately called the police so they could catch them red-handed -- and the police weren't interested.

There is a problem with a system that gives the impression that it treats theft as unimportant.

[chrispy porker]

Peter Ward said:

chrispy porker said:

So he reported a crime and got a standard letter.
So what?
Another lot of fuss about nothing if you ask me. I don't know who this chap is but he sounds a bit as if he has One Foot in the Grave.

That's not like you, CP. Look at what he's saying. He reported a crime and all he got was a standard letter, including a flyer telling him about victim support -- a charity staffed by volunteers.

Imagine if you bought a new car, and then it broke. You call the dealer to get it fixed, and all they do is give you a reference number that allows you to claim a new one if you're properly insured. You then get a flyer telling you how you can call someone else to get some counselling.

Not an exact parallel, but there are still people in this country who think that the police are there to catch robbers rather than to fill in forms so that they don't have time to catch robbers.

Only this weekend I talked to a friend and learned about her son whose car keys were stolen, along with 3 others' who lived in the same house. The next night they immobilised all cars and set a watch. When the thieves returned they immediately called the police so they could catch them red-handed -- and the police weren't interested.

There is a problem with a system that gives the impression that it treats theft as unimportant.

So we know his theft is not being investigated do we?
How?

[Cooperman]

A friend who lives in this vilage had a new car stolen. It was a rather unusual one, so he kept a lookout for it on the various car sales web sites. A few weeks later a similar vehicle turned up with a mobile phone number about 75 miles away. The guy phoned for details and was told that he could see it a t a place mid-way between the two locations.The description was EXACTLY as the stolen vehicle, so he informed the old bill, who said that thyey were too busy to attend at the now-arranged meeting in a pub car park. It was not until my friend said that he and several of his large friends would, therefore, deal with the matter that the police agreed to attend and, subsequently caught the culprits, who admitted to other offences.

[fluffnik]

Peter Ward said:

Look at what he's saying. He reported a crime and all he got was a standard letter, including a flyer telling him about victim support -- a charity staffed by volunteers.

...and funded by extortion.

[fluffnik]

nobleguy said:

I thought it was a good analogy with the GDR sign - it's becoming like that.

[Gerry Breen]

Cooperman said:

A friend who lives in this vilage had a new car stolen. It was a rather unusual one, so he kept a lookout for it on the various car sales web sites. A few weeks later a similar vehicle turned up with a mobile phone number about 75 miles away. The guy phoned for details and was told that he could see it a t a place mid-way between the two locations.The description was EXACTLY as the stolen vehicle, so he informed the old bill, who said that thyey were too busy to attend at the now-arranged meeting in a pub car park. It was not until my friend said that he and several of his large friends would, therefore, deal with the matter that the police agreed to attend and, subsequently caught the culprits, who admitted to other offences.

Maybe thats the way forward, make the system work for the silent majority, deal with any crime by fighting fire with fire, play like the scrotes do only much harder, much much harder. Honest it was self defence officer, he said he had a gun, thats why I cut his head off.

[chrispy porker]

well I think he sounds like a professional moaner - A glass half empty sort, who would have moaned more if he had not had a letter.
As an aside I wonder what steps he took to safeguard his rotovator against theft, and whether he has registered it, or retained the engine/serial number.
I do not know the answer, but I could hazard a guess.
Still as long as he's got something to moan about on his website, he'll be happy in a perverse sort of way so good luck to him.

[randlemarcus]

chrispy porker said:

As an aside I wonder what steps he took to safeguard his rotovator against theft, and whether he has registered it, or retained the engine/serial number.
I do not know the answer, but I could hazard a guess.

Dont have an issue with the unbolded bits, as they would presumably form evidence to convict the scrotes, but the bit in bold is saying, in so many words, that it was his fault for owning something that a pikey b'stard might fancy helping himself to. This and the Home Office mantra of its all your fault really really annoy me. Why isnt it the fault of the person who thinks that they are entitled to help themselves to whatever they want, without fear of consequences?

[chrispy porker]

Not at all.
It is common sense to take care of your possessions.
A rotovator is worth quite a lot of money, if it was mine I would make it hard for someone to steal it.
Sadly some people do not take care of their property.

[streaky]

chrispy porker said:

Not at all.
It is common sense to take care of your possessions.
A rotovator is worth quite a lot of money, if it was mine I would make it hard for someone to steal it.
Sadly some people do not take care of their property.

Too many people leave valuable garden machinery and furniture unsecured. Most garden sheds are easy to bust open. How many PHers have garden machinery in a shed that has the door secured with a simple hsap and staple and a cheap padlock, and has none of the machinery inside chained and padlocked (either together or to a reinforced point)? Mine are. How many have valuable garden table and chairs that they leave out under a simple cover. Mine are 'chained' together with motorcycle security chains and a strong padlock. Nothing will prevent the determined thief, but most garden thefts are committed by the sort of crook who will take the easier option of nicking your neighbour's unsecured tools, etc., than spend time and make noise trying to steal your secured items - Streaky

[chrispy porker]

streaky said:

chrispy porker said:

Not at all.
It is common sense to take care of your possessions.
A rotovator is worth quite a lot of money, if it was mine I would make it hard for someone to steal it.
Sadly some people do not take care of their property.

Too many people leave valuable garden machinery and furniture unsecured. Most garden sheds are easy to bust open. How many PHers have garden machinery in a shed that has the door secured with a simple hsap and staple and a cheap padlock, and has none of the machinery inside chained and padlocked (either together or to a reinforced point)? Mine are. How many have valuable garden table and chairs that they leave out under a simple cover. Mine are 'chained' together with motorcycle security chains and a strong padlock. Nothing will prevent the determined thief, but most garden thefts are committed by the sort of crook who will take the easier option of nicking your neighbour's unsecured tools, etc., than spend time and make noise trying to steal your secured items - Streaky

Agreed.
But some people seem to think that sort of advice is blaming the loser when something gets stolen. Quite Bizarre.

[rs1952]

chrispy porker said:

So he reported a crime and got a standard letter.
So what?
Another lot of fuss about nothing if you ask me. I don't know who this chap is but he sounds a bit as if he has One Foot in the Grave.

There is a point that is being lost on this thread, and that is that this sort of thing happens time and time again. Having a pop at the guy in question in post after post is a bit like shooting the messenger.

Here are some personal examples:

1. I was mugged in 2002. The police did admittedly send a BiB round, but no action was ever taken and the guy was never caught. I did, however, get an offer of counselling

2. My place was burgled by a pretty inept burglar. SOCO came round, took prints etc but nobody ever ended up before a court.

3. My ex-wife was harassed by a bunch of kids (teenagers) who tried to break into the house when they thought I wasn’t there. I located the barstewards less than 100 yards away, and told the police where they were. They wouldn’t even send a car round to “have a word with them”, let alone anything else.

4. I woke up one morning to find a case of criminal damage to my car that was parked in my drive (somebody had tried to prise open the drivers window and had shattered it). I rang the local nick – the crime desk was an answerphone Not happy, I took myself off to the local nick to be told “What’s it got to do with us? Here’s a crime number for your insurance company. Good morning”

Four personal examples, and I don’t give a fk if I’m considered a professional moaner (which I ain’t) by serving BiB on here, or have “one foot in the grave,” or any other “put downer” that anybody might like to think of. I’m just pied off with lack of police action on ordinary low level day to day crime, and this I suspect is a problem all over the country.

Now, how interested would the police be, I wonder, if I happened to be caught doing 85 on the M4 through Wiltshire, or the M6 over Shap? No – I lie – I don’t wonder – I know exactly how interested they would be, and you do too.

Rant over.

[chrispy porker]

If you read Mr Brignell's site he moans about everything, not just the Police. That is what his site is for. Ergo he is a professional moaner in my opinion.

[rs1952]

chrispy porker said:

If you read Mr Brignell's site he moans about everything, not just the Police. That is what his site is for. Ergo he is a professional moaner in my opinion.

Mr Bignell may (or may not) well be a professional moaner, but in truth (as I see it, and referring back to Peter's original post) that is not the point - yet another example of shooting the messenger.

The facts appear increasingly to be that the police do not give a toss about some, indeed most, types of low level day to day crime, and will generally not do anything about it and/ or try to distance themselves from it.

On the other hand, low level crime committed by people who would normally call themselves law abiding, but can be easily identified by a number plate, find themselves very interesting indeed to the authorities!

CP, you know as well as I do that this is going on all over the country, and it is damaging the relationship between the police and Joe Public, possibly irrevocably. If it goes on, things are certainly not going to get any better. Rather than castigate this geezer as a "professional moaner," why can't we (ie the country as a whole) see the issue for what it really is and do something about it before its too late?

[nobleguy]

fluffnik said:

nobleguy said:

I thought it was a good analogy with the GDR sign - it's becoming like that.

Give it a couple of years....

rs1952 said:

chrispy porker said:

If you read Mr Brignell's site he moans about everything, not just the Police. That is what his site is for. Ergo he is a professional moaner in my opinion.

Mr Bignell may (or may not) well be a professional moaner, but in truth (as I see it, and referring back to Peter's original post) that is not the point - yet another example of shooting the messenger.

The facts appear increasingly to be that the police do not give a toss about some, indeed most, types of low level day to day crime, and will generally not do anything about it and/ or try to distance themselves from it.

On the other hand, low level crime committed by people who would normally call themselves law abiding, but can be easily identified by a number plate, find themselves very interesting indeed to the authorities!

CP, you know as well as I do that this is going on all over the country, and it is damaging the relationship between the police and Joe Public, possibly irrevocably. If it goes on, things are certainly not going to get any better. Rather than castigate this geezer as a "professional moaner," why can't we (ie the country as a whole) see the issue for what it really is and do something about it before its too late?

From a purely personal view, it is already too late. In my limited experiences of the law I've foud them to be as good as useless. Every single time.

Edited by nobleguy on Wednesday 18th April 15:52

[Raify]

chrispy porker said:

If you read Mr Brignell's site he moans about everything, not just the Police. That is what his site is for. Ergo he is a professional moaner in my opinion.

It would be an incredibly boring blog if he wrote about his "adequate service whilst buying my bread this morning." Look at P&P, almost all the threads are rants & moans, it's just the nature of internet forums. It doesn't mean that eveyone here is muttering "I don't believe it" under their breath.