how bad have i been?
Discussion
Right, dangerous driving, and DCaA asidide, i'm wondering how naughty i have been recently...
I'll set the scene: mid afternoon with good visability, i find myself driving along an a road in northumberland, there are two cars in my immediate vicinity, a swb shogun directly in front, and then in front of that, a red corsa (the colour isn't important, but i thought you'd all like to know :P)... mr corsa is doing around 30 mph, with the shogun sat 10 meters behind... the road straightens, and its clear etc etc, so, i gpo through the whole mirros and blind spots, signal, and then move out to overtake (i hadn't put my foot down at this point, as i was double checking the road was clear...) As i close with the shogun, it suddenly (without signal) pulls out, followed by a large black cloud, however by this point i'd alredy commited, and seeing as he was going barely faster than the corsa, and the road was nice and wide, i drove round the outside (3 abrest)... In hindsight, yes it was rash, and not the best idea, and most likely the result of youthful exuberance.. but, which laws did i break? is it illegal to overtake a vehicle that's allredy overtaking? (as much as he did cut me up...)
TiA
hd
I'll set the scene: mid afternoon with good visability, i find myself driving along an a road in northumberland, there are two cars in my immediate vicinity, a swb shogun directly in front, and then in front of that, a red corsa (the colour isn't important, but i thought you'd all like to know :P)... mr corsa is doing around 30 mph, with the shogun sat 10 meters behind... the road straightens, and its clear etc etc, so, i gpo through the whole mirros and blind spots, signal, and then move out to overtake (i hadn't put my foot down at this point, as i was double checking the road was clear...) As i close with the shogun, it suddenly (without signal) pulls out, followed by a large black cloud, however by this point i'd alredy commited, and seeing as he was going barely faster than the corsa, and the road was nice and wide, i drove round the outside (3 abrest)... In hindsight, yes it was rash, and not the best idea, and most likely the result of youthful exuberance.. but, which laws did i break? is it illegal to overtake a vehicle that's allredy overtaking? (as much as he did cut me up...)
TiA
hd
I've done this on the A41 between Wolves and Chester. If you are already overtaking and the choice is a) panic brake b) move further over and accelerate even harder to avoid a collision then I think b is usually better.
As long as your indicator was on before the person in front then technically you have 'priority' although that's hardly a plus point when you are dead.
I have chosen to overtake 2 cars which were side by side on a wide road on purpose knowing that the car overtaking is taking too long, and I've just blasted past both. I suspect this is wrong.
This proves the risk of overtaking more than one car or even one car in a queue of cars. My dad puts his horn on as he pulls out to warn of his attack, and I did the same as a motorcyclist, but maybe we should all do it. If I'm going to overtake 2 or 3 cars I often put my full beam on.
Anyway, assume the worst and you can't go far wrong.
As long as your indicator was on before the person in front then technically you have 'priority' although that's hardly a plus point when you are dead.
I have chosen to overtake 2 cars which were side by side on a wide road on purpose knowing that the car overtaking is taking too long, and I've just blasted past both. I suspect this is wrong.
This proves the risk of overtaking more than one car or even one car in a queue of cars. My dad puts his horn on as he pulls out to warn of his attack, and I did the same as a motorcyclist, but maybe we should all do it. If I'm going to overtake 2 or 3 cars I often put my full beam on.
Anyway, assume the worst and you can't go far wrong.
Similar happened to me except I was already alongside the vehicle as it pulled out.
This was despite sitting in contact position for a couple of seconds incase he wanted to pull out and a sustained sounding of the horn as he was pulling out.
I opted for the continue to overtake option too as I didn't fancy hitting the brakes given that it was downhill and I was having to pull to the right slightly.
Hard one to judge.
How much notice did you give that you intended to overtake?
Could you have eased back safely?
Was it dangerous being 3 abreast at that point of road.
Not having a go, just some of the thoughts I ran through after it happened to me.
This was despite sitting in contact position for a couple of seconds incase he wanted to pull out and a sustained sounding of the horn as he was pulling out.
I opted for the continue to overtake option too as I didn't fancy hitting the brakes given that it was downhill and I was having to pull to the right slightly.
Hard one to judge.
How much notice did you give that you intended to overtake?
Could you have eased back safely?
Was it dangerous being 3 abreast at that point of road.
Not having a go, just some of the thoughts I ran through after it happened to me.
Except for in situations with double white lines etc, AFAIK there is nothing illegal about overtaking three abreast.
In fact the old road layout on a-roads, sadly all but gone now, had 3 lanes with no priorities! You can still see this on a short stretch of the A39 just south of Minehead (lovely road...)
In fact the old road layout on a-roads, sadly all but gone now, had 3 lanes with no priorities! You can still see this on a short stretch of the A39 just south of Minehead (lovely road...)
KB_S1 said:
Hard one to judge.
How much notice did you give that you intended to overtake? -Plenty
Could you have eased back safely? -ease back? no, but i could have anchored on safely
Was it dangerous being 3 abreast at that point of road. - not particularly
Not having a go, just some of the thoughts I ran through after it happened to me.
i know it was t
ttish, i was just wondering how legal it was... (saying that, a copper would have just done me for dangerous, i imagine)carrotchomper said:
Except for in situations with double white lines etc, AFAIK there is nothing illegal about overtaking three abreast.
In fact the old road layout on a-roads, sadly all but gone now, had 3 lanes with no priorities! You can still see this on a short stretch of the A39 just south of Minehead (lovely road...)
In fact the old road layout on a-roads, sadly all but gone now, had 3 lanes with no priorities! You can still see this on a short stretch of the A39 just south of Minehead (lovely road...)
There's a bit like that just going out of Langley off to Datchet alongside the M4. Crazy set up.
hairydave said:
KB_S1 said:
Hard one to judge.
How much notice did you give that you intended to overtake? -Plenty
Could you have eased back safely? -ease back? no, but i could have anchored on safely
Was it dangerous being 3 abreast at that point of road. - not particularly
Not having a go, just some of the thoughts I ran through after it happened to me.
i know it was t
ttish, i was just wondering how legal it was... (saying that, a copper would have just done me for dangerous, i imagine)From what you say it's the Shogun that was t
ttish, and you were left with a splitsecond choice to emergency brake (bearing in mind the Shogun *might* have spotted you and braked at the same instant - so your higher speed means you may have collected him) or get past the dangerous fool in what sounds like the safer option. I firmly believe that in those crucial moments where some imbecile puts you in a dangerous position, committing to the manouvre is the only way to go. Sure as eggs if you abort, the other person will as well and then you've both run out of wriggle room. Bang.
If BiB would rather pull you for overtaking correctly and with consideration only to be presented with a dangerous situation by a tosser, than pull the tosser, it's a bad day.
jacko lah said:
As long as your indicator was on before the person in front then technically you have 'priority' although that's hardly a plus point when you are dead.
I don't think this is right at all. If you are established in lane, however, then you might have a claim to priority. However, absolute priority is not clear at all, at I think it's a case of both keep clear until you are alongside.
I don't think that either of the other cars were actually inconvenienced by the manoeuvre, so the test has to be whether the driving fell below the standard.
I like to think about that in two ways:-
- do you think that you'd have failed a driving test for doing that?
- do you think a police driver on a blue-light run should be prosecuted for doing it?
I wouldn't advise it, but I don't see that it's necessarily illegal.
IMO sometimes it does happen and as already said you have a split second choice to make......but perhaps you should have considered this as a risk before commencing your manouver...that said you assess the risk, believe that the shogun is an observant driver and start to execute the manouver.....the risk becomes a reality the shogun is a tw@t and have 2 options;
1) Brake and pull back in - what if the shogun who has already proven themselves to be unobservant and unable to review what's going on around them suddenly realises their previous error and brakes to pull back in....you've got nowhere to go
or 2) accellerate out of danger whilst putting no other road users into danger..thus removing the risk as there's nothing anyone (barring the Corsa suddenly deciding to turn right) can do to put you at risk again..
So onto the question.....is it illegal/what would the police do;
> If traffic or sensible other then hopefully they will have witnessed the whole sequence and then shoudl pull the shogun driver for driving without due consideration..(or whatever the official wording is these days)
> If standard plod (ie not sensible police officer in road and driving incidents) and being that you were in a TVR then they'd probably assume you were being reckless and that the Shogun was a perfectly reasonable driver even though they were wearing slippers, flat cap, smoking jacket, driving gloves and puffing on their pipe)
So no help at all really am I??
1) Brake and pull back in - what if the shogun who has already proven themselves to be unobservant and unable to review what's going on around them suddenly realises their previous error and brakes to pull back in....you've got nowhere to go
or 2) accellerate out of danger whilst putting no other road users into danger..thus removing the risk as there's nothing anyone (barring the Corsa suddenly deciding to turn right) can do to put you at risk again..
So onto the question.....is it illegal/what would the police do;
> If traffic or sensible other then hopefully they will have witnessed the whole sequence and then shoudl pull the shogun driver for driving without due consideration..(or whatever the official wording is these days)
> If standard plod (ie not sensible police officer in road and driving incidents) and being that you were in a TVR then they'd probably assume you were being reckless and that the Shogun was a perfectly reasonable driver even though they were wearing slippers, flat cap, smoking jacket, driving gloves and puffing on their pipe)
So no help at all really am I??
SplatSpeed said:
might is right don't you know
It certainly is in my experience, I live in the Suffolk Countryside which means that LandRovers/BMW X5s/Shoguns/Troopers etc. all appear to have right of way, under all circumstances including when the stationary car in on their side of the road and I am already half way past it.. Not to mention that they have the right of way over my side of the road when on blind bends, they are able/entitled to just run over the white lines and try and crash into my front quarter.
marcellus said:
and being that you were in a TVR then they'd probably assume you were being reckless and that the Shogun was a perfectly reasonable driver
TVR?
it was a civic, but i would imiagine that sympathy wouldn't lie with the driver of the giant bumblebee...
and yes, thank god for vtec!
nice to know that i was sort of legal too! thanks guys!
carrotchomper said:
Except for in situations with double white lines etc, AFAIK there is nothing illegal about overtaking three abreast.
In fact the old road layout on a-roads, sadly all but gone now, had 3 lanes with no priorities! You can still see this on a short stretch of the A39 just south of Minehead (lovely road...)
In fact the old road layout on a-roads, sadly all but gone now, had 3 lanes with no priorities! You can still see this on a short stretch of the A39 just south of Minehead (lovely road...)
Where visibility is good 3-laners are great.
I hate when they put solid lines in as at Soutra on the A68.
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