Flashed by a red light camera not red?
Discussion
Filtered to the front of a small queue of traffic to a set of traffic lights (T-Junction - plenty of visibility) on the motorbike. Light turns from red to amber, and the cars beside me start to move off. To avoid being squashed, I accelerate a bit faster than they do into the junction.
I think I was then flashed by the red light camera, although I was about a second into the amber colour. (Vehicles from other direction were stopped for a few seconds before lights turned to amber, although I know I should have waited for green technically)
Should I expect a NIP?
I think I was then flashed by the red light camera, although I was about a second into the amber colour. (Vehicles from other direction were stopped for a few seconds before lights turned to amber, although I know I should have waited for green technically)
Should I expect a NIP?
As I said, I accelerated a split second after it turned to amber.
I thought these red light cameras only operated when the light was red, not amber.
Most people start accelerating when it turns amber, I just happened to be a bit quicker (but still way in the speed limit) than the cars either side of me - Just.
I'll keep my fingers crossed, 14 days - right?
I thought these red light cameras only operated when the light was red, not amber.
Most people start accelerating when it turns amber, I just happened to be a bit quicker (but still way in the speed limit) than the cars either side of me - Just.
I'll keep my fingers crossed, 14 days - right?
MKH9130 said:
As I said, I accelerated a split second after it turned to amber.
I thought these red light cameras only operated when the light was red, not amber.
Most people start accelerating when it turns amber, I just happened to be a bit quicker (but still way in the speed limit) than the cars either side of me - Just.
I'll keep my fingers crossed, 14 days - right?
I thought these red light cameras only operated when the light was red, not amber.
Most people start accelerating when it turns amber, I just happened to be a bit quicker (but still way in the speed limit) than the cars either side of me - Just.
I'll keep my fingers crossed, 14 days - right?
Don't forget it's RED AND AMBER. This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber. Took it to court and ended up with a TS10 (3 pts) and £90. The beak at the time said she doubted it was showing Red & Amber and said there was reasonable doubt to beieve my story... Harsh i thought but hey.
Edited to say that the pre-court report stated light was on Red.
Edited by eltax91 on Wednesday 25th April 13:38
pdV6 said:
eltax91 said:
This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber.
I don't see the problem. The red light was on (irrespective of the amber light) therefore you jumped a red light. End of.
If his situation was the same as mine, then technically you are right of course.
But where there is clear visability and traffic from the opposing side of the junction have quite clearly stopped and have been for several seconds - when the light turns red & amber 1 second before green, surely a TS10 would be a bit overkill seeing as Insurance companies regard them a lot more seriously than a simple SP30?
MKH9130 said:
pdV6 said:
eltax91 said:
This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber.
I don't see the problem. The red light was on (irrespective of the amber light) therefore you jumped a red light. End of.
If his situation was the same as mine, then technically you are right of course.
But where there is clear visability and traffic from the opposing side of the junction have quite clearly stopped and have been for several seconds - when the light turns red & amber 1 second before green, surely a TS10 would be a bit overkill seeing as Insurance companies regard them a lot more seriously than a simple SP30?
Maybe, but its another one of those absolute offences; either you jumped a red or you didn't. "By how much" doesn't come into it I'm afraid.
pdV6 said:
MKH9130 said:
pdV6 said:
eltax91 said:
This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber.
I don't see the problem. The red light was on (irrespective of the amber light) therefore you jumped a red light. End of.
If his situation was the same as mine, then technically you are right of course.
But where there is clear visability and traffic from the opposing side of the junction have quite clearly stopped and have been for several seconds - when the light turns red & amber 1 second before green, surely a TS10 would be a bit overkill seeing as Insurance companies regard them a lot more seriously than a simple SP30?
Maybe, but its another one of those absolute offences; either you jumped a red or you didn't. "By how much" doesn't come into it I'm afraid.
Yes indeed. I'll be waiting for baited breath for the next 3 weeks but if I do get an NIP I'll just accept it. Such is life.
MKH9130 said:
pdV6 said:
MKH9130 said:
pdV6 said:
eltax91 said:
This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber.
I don't see the problem. The red light was on (irrespective of the amber light) therefore you jumped a red light. End of.
If his situation was the same as mine, then technically you are right of course.
But where there is clear visability and traffic from the opposing side of the junction have quite clearly stopped and have been for several seconds - when the light turns red & amber 1 second before green, surely a TS10 would be a bit overkill seeing as Insurance companies regard them a lot more seriously than a simple SP30?
Maybe, but its another one of those absolute offences; either you jumped a red or you didn't. "By how much" doesn't come into it I'm afraid.
Yes indeed. I'll be waiting for baited breath for the next 3 weeks but if I do get an NIP I'll just accept it. Such is life.
Yep, if you get one then it's a case of just accept it i'm afraid! Although, with the significant increase in insurance i would recommend that you delay as much as possible. For example, i rejected the claim's of the camera, and it took, in total, nearly 14 months from the incident to me actually getting convicted. Which was back dated until the date of offence. Luckily it meant i got two insurance premiums paid during the delay. Once i got convicted, called the insurance company and told them i had a TS10, it didn't affect my premium until renewal. (Was norwich Union at the time)
eltax91 said:
MKH9130 said:
pdV6 said:
MKH9130 said:
pdV6 said:
eltax91 said:
This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber.
I don't see the problem. The red light was on (irrespective of the amber light) therefore you jumped a red light. End of.
If his situation was the same as mine, then technically you are right of course.
But where there is clear visability and traffic from the opposing side of the junction have quite clearly stopped and have been for several seconds - when the light turns red & amber 1 second before green, surely a TS10 would be a bit overkill seeing as Insurance companies regard them a lot more seriously than a simple SP30?
Maybe, but its another one of those absolute offences; either you jumped a red or you didn't. "By how much" doesn't come into it I'm afraid.
Yes indeed. I'll be waiting for baited breath for the next 3 weeks but if I do get an NIP I'll just accept it. Such is life.
Yep, if you get one then it's a case of just accept it i'm afraid! Although, with the significant increase in insurance i would recommend that you delay as much as possible. For example, i rejected the claim's of the camera, and it took, in total, nearly 14 months from the incident to me actually getting convicted. Which was back dated until the date of offence. Luckily it meant i got two insurance premiums paid during the delay. Once i got convicted, called the insurance company and told them i had a TS10, it didn't affect my premium until renewal. (Was norwich Union at the time)
Or plead guilty at the earliest opportunity and have the 3 points OFF your licence sooner ?
pdV6 said:
eltax91 said:
This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber.
I don't see the problem. The red light was on (irrespective of the amber light) therefore you jumped a red light. End of.
I disagree. Red+Amber to me says that the lights in the other direction are already red, and so this says to me 'pull away when ready' - I understand completely that it might not be the offical defintion but I defy anybody to say they wait until it's gone fully green before engaging gear and pulling away. If I'd jumped an amber before it went red then I'd take it on the chin, but not the other way.
nobleguy said:
pdV6 said:
eltax91 said:
This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber.
I don't see the problem. The red light was on (irrespective of the amber light) therefore you jumped a red light. End of.
I disagree. Red+Amber to me says that the lights in the other direction are already red, and so this says to me 'pull away when ready' - I understand completely that it might not be the offical defintion but I defy anybody to say they wait until it's gone fully green before engaging gear and pulling away. If I'd jumped an amber before it went red then I'd take it on the chin, but not the other way.
Red = Stop
Amber = Stop
Green = Go
MKH9130 said:
pdV6 said:
eltax91 said:
This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber.
I don't see the problem. The red light was on (irrespective of the amber light) therefore you jumped a red light. End of.
If his situation was the same as mine, then technically you are right of course.
But where there is clear visability and traffic from the opposing side of the junction have quite clearly stopped and have been for several seconds - when the light turns red & amber 1 second before green, surely a TS10 would be a bit overkill seeing as Insurance companies regard them a lot more seriously than a simple SP30?
Look, there's no point in bringing logic into all this :sigh:. It might not have been dangerous, indeed it may have improved your own safety, but that's not what these things are about. Once laws are enforced by automation, logic recedes into the background.
The camera will of course also catch those dangerous drivers who speed through the red light in mid-phase causing havoc and even death to others, but such drivers are likely to be uninsured, unlicenced and untraceable. People like you (us) are far more likely to be successfully prosecuted for such minor technical but non-safety-related infringements as you describe. Doesn't it sound a bit like speed cameras? Odd that they're run by the partnerships as well, isn't it?
One day perhaps someone will write the story of how the police stood by and allowed groups of unelected activists to destroy public trust in them. Until then, the police continue the line that partnerships have their full support. Is this only because of the overtime, or are there some who genuinely believe it (apart from Brunstrom of course)?
Edited by Peter Ward on Wednesday 25th April 17:02
It doesn’t matter whether the offence is recorded by BiB or camera. BiB would report it just the same.
I was taken by surprise the other day by a roadworks traffic light that appeared in red in front of me when I hadn’t even noticed the lights were there. I had to reverse back to the “wait here” sign and thought I must have nodded off. After a while the light jumped to green and I realised the amber bulb was out. On my approach it must have been on amber when I came around the corner and then changed to red as I passed the “wait here” board.
Clearly we need the amber before red, but do we need the red and amber before green?
I was taken by surprise the other day by a roadworks traffic light that appeared in red in front of me when I hadn’t even noticed the lights were there. I had to reverse back to the “wait here” sign and thought I must have nodded off. After a while the light jumped to green and I realised the amber bulb was out. On my approach it must have been on amber when I came around the corner and then changed to red as I passed the “wait here” board.
Clearly we need the amber before red, but do we need the red and amber before green?
eltax91 said:
Don't forget it's RED AND AMBER. This happened to me and i got a NIP. The NIP said jumping a Red Light, where i KNOW it was on Red & Amber. Took it to court and ended up with a TS10 (3 pts) and £90. The beak at the time said she doubted it was showing Red & Amber and said there was reasonable doubt to beieve my story... Harsh i thought but hey.
Edited to say that the pre-court report stated light was on Red.
Hmmm...
I was flashed from the front by a faulty camera.
When I phoned the ticket office, they told me not to worry because the photo would show which light(s) were on...
So what's going on here, then...?
nobleguy said:
I disagree. Red+Amber to me says that the lights in the other direction are already red, and so this says to me 'pull away when ready'
Whilst the second part of this might be true (for you), the first part is not true - always. Foe example the lights on the big roundabout in front of 5102 in Bristol used to be slightly out of kilter. The amber is there for errors such as that and errors by drivers in going through the amber very late at the other end.
If both sets of traffic cross the line when on amber/amber & red then they can still collide. Since it is legal to cross on amber at the end of the green (and many do it on red) you are both illegal and very dangerous to jump the red and amber.
Have I ever done it, yes. Do I do it consistently, no
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