What HATO's do if they see dangerous driving...
Discussion
On another forum...
link
Question is, how do they define dangerous driving? If someone passes them at 90 (which would feel pretty damn fast to them sitting at 50mph
), would that be enough to warrant a call to the police? And could their word stand up in court?
So...good thing or bad thing? Personally, I'm doing about 150 miles a day on a motorway commute at the moment and I think they do a great job attending accidents and breakdowns, but I wouldn't want to see them taking on an enforcement role.
a HATO said:
My colleagues and I patrol 24/7 and if we see any dangerous driving we radio full details to the police for them to deal, because we have no powers of enforcement
link
Question is, how do they define dangerous driving? If someone passes them at 90 (which would feel pretty damn fast to them sitting at 50mph
), would that be enough to warrant a call to the police? And could their word stand up in court? So...good thing or bad thing? Personally, I'm doing about 150 miles a day on a motorway commute at the moment and I think they do a great job attending accidents and breakdowns, but I wouldn't want to see them taking on an enforcement role.
Edited by ad551 on Saturday 12th May 22:36
.......... send NOIP to Reg keeper of offending vehicle,take detailed statements from the HATO's, have driver interviewed when traced, submit file to CPS who may or may not authorise prosecution.
No different to you making a complaint of bad driving.
What is the betting more credence will be given to their evidence than Joe Public because they are out and about in traffic daily in their job.
We have had one successful prosecution with HATO as witness, watch out the die has been cast more will follow.
dvd
No different to you making a complaint of bad driving.
What is the betting more credence will be given to their evidence than Joe Public because they are out and about in traffic daily in their job.
We have had one successful prosecution with HATO as witness, watch out the die has been cast more will follow.
dvd
Lots of people spend big hours on the road too, how come they wouldn't be able to use that bolster their credibility? Are HATOs highly trained in judging driving standards. I know a bloke down the pub who'll get red in the face and look like he's having a stroke explaining whatever case of "bad driving" he'd seen today.
DVD, on a barely related subject, what would you do if you saw someone negotiating a roundabout trying to find a bit of inside wheel grip, and raising a little smoke through the turn in doing so?
SM
DVD, on a barely related subject, what would you do if you saw someone negotiating a roundabout trying to find a bit of inside wheel grip, and raising a little smoke through the turn in doing so?
SM
supermono said:
DVD, on a barely related subject, what would you do if you saw someone negotiating a roundabout trying to find a bit of inside wheel grip, and raising a little smoke through the turn in doing so?
SM
SM
If it was me I'd refer them to this thread. www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=390249
>>>>>>DVD, on a barely related subject, what would you do if you saw someone negotiating a roundabout trying to find a bit of inside wheel grip, and raising a little smoke through the turn in doing so? <<<<
Now bugger all other than think what a twit. Ah the joys of retirement.
Years ago different matter. To me that aint normal practice by a prudent careful driver other than by accident, possibly too fast into said Rbt or a divvy that has nicked the vehicle, or has little or no driving experience. So a pull would be warranted to see why.
Dependant on that as to action:
(1) Thanks Sir, please watch in future.or
(2) More formal words or
(3) Report for summons, or
(4) Cautioned : Your nicked get in the motor.
Question to you now. How long is a piece a string?
......and if you are on a fishing trip I aint swallowing any bait.
Arrrternoon
dvd
Now bugger all other than think what a twit. Ah the joys of retirement.
Years ago different matter. To me that aint normal practice by a prudent careful driver other than by accident, possibly too fast into said Rbt or a divvy that has nicked the vehicle, or has little or no driving experience. So a pull would be warranted to see why.
Dependant on that as to action:
(1) Thanks Sir, please watch in future.or
(2) More formal words or
(3) Report for summons, or
(4) Cautioned : Your nicked get in the motor.
Question to you now. How long is a piece a string?
......and if you are on a fishing trip I aint swallowing any bait.
Arrrternoon
dvd
ad551 said:
Question is, how do they define dangerous driving? If someone passes them at 90 (which would feel pretty damn fast to them sitting at 50mph ), would that be enough to warrant a call to the police? And could their word stand up in court?
), would that be enough to warrant a call to the police? And could their word stand up in court?I think they are embellishing their activites slightly.
For a start, they don't radio the police. They talk to the HATO control room which (currently) has a Police Liaison Officer in it and he/she might listen.
I know Police have been dispatched to LGVs wandering all over the hard shoulder to lane 2 which have been called in by HATOs.
Speeding? Dangerous driving? No more authority than any MoP.
I have a dim view of them after this one incident.
I was driving to Peterborough from St Helens over easter weekend. Traffic on the M6 was moving at about 5mph and there was a blue Astra at the side of the road and an old couple standing by it. I pulled up in front of them about 20 feet away and then asked if they were ok. Partly as they were obviously not having a picnic and partly to save myself from boredom.
They had rang their son as they had a flat tyre and couldn't change it, so I offered to do it for them. I was just refitting the wheel when one of the patrol cars came up, told me to leave the car alone and ushered me to the side where he gave me a good talking down to. Apparently I should leave things like that to the professionals, I could cause an accident due to where I parked the van etc. I quite liked the fact he said leave it to the professionals as I was in my Rolls Royce overalls and a whacking great Rolls Royce van at the time.
I muttered a bit and then drove off.
I think the idea of them is great, i'd certainly want a patrol car there if my Mum for example had a flat tyre, was in distress. I do think they attract those who seek power though, a necessary evil possibly.
With regards to them giving details of dangerous driving, that is a bit crap, if they were used as a witness then fine but they are no judge on what is dangerous or not.
Dave!
I was driving to Peterborough from St Helens over easter weekend. Traffic on the M6 was moving at about 5mph and there was a blue Astra at the side of the road and an old couple standing by it. I pulled up in front of them about 20 feet away and then asked if they were ok. Partly as they were obviously not having a picnic and partly to save myself from boredom.
They had rang their son as they had a flat tyre and couldn't change it, so I offered to do it for them. I was just refitting the wheel when one of the patrol cars came up, told me to leave the car alone and ushered me to the side where he gave me a good talking down to. Apparently I should leave things like that to the professionals, I could cause an accident due to where I parked the van etc. I quite liked the fact he said leave it to the professionals as I was in my Rolls Royce overalls and a whacking great Rolls Royce van at the time.
I muttered a bit and then drove off.
I think the idea of them is great, i'd certainly want a patrol car there if my Mum for example had a flat tyre, was in distress. I do think they attract those who seek power though, a necessary evil possibly.
With regards to them giving details of dangerous driving, that is a bit crap, if they were used as a witness then fine but they are no judge on what is dangerous or not.
Dave!
Howitzer, why they said to "leave it to the professionals" was probably because by parking your vehicle in front of the broken down one, your veh was now also a potential hazard. A "professional" recovery agent would have parked behind said vehicle, with all beacons flashing.
The HATO's are instructed to move on any vehicle not directly involved in the breakdown/RTC.
Those are the HA rules, although with hinsight, depending on how far into the wheel change you were, would've normally made the decision if you would be left to complete it. From reading your post, I would suggest that you'd only just started to do it.
All respect to you for stopping in the first place though.
As for dangerous driving etc, if they see anything blatently dangerous, ie. weaving from lane to lane (usually HGV's) towing in lane 3 etc, but not speeding, they call it in to the RCC, and the RCC calls up the police force that covers the area, give the details etc. then it's up to that police force if anything is done about it.
This is just the same as any MOP that calls up on the ERT (emergency roadside telephone) exactly the same would happen with their information.
The HATO is only a witness, a credible witness though, and if it came to court, their statement would carry a little more weight due to being "proffesional drivers" as would a driving instructor, HGV driver etc.
The HATO's are instructed to move on any vehicle not directly involved in the breakdown/RTC.
Those are the HA rules, although with hinsight, depending on how far into the wheel change you were, would've normally made the decision if you would be left to complete it. From reading your post, I would suggest that you'd only just started to do it.
All respect to you for stopping in the first place though.
As for dangerous driving etc, if they see anything blatently dangerous, ie. weaving from lane to lane (usually HGV's) towing in lane 3 etc, but not speeding, they call it in to the RCC, and the RCC calls up the police force that covers the area, give the details etc. then it's up to that police force if anything is done about it.
This is just the same as any MOP that calls up on the ERT (emergency roadside telephone) exactly the same would happen with their information.
The HATO is only a witness, a credible witness though, and if it came to court, their statement would carry a little more weight due to being "proffesional drivers" as would a driving instructor, HGV driver etc.
Edited by gafferjim on Sunday 13th May 16:59
Howitzer said:
...I was just refitting the wheel when one of the patrol cars came up, told me to leave the car alone and ushered me to the side where he gave me a good talking down to.
The first concern is the safety of everybody.
Some of them don't have the best communications skills though....
Traffic travelling at 5mph tops, 2 elderly people out in the sun, a car blocking the hard shoulder and someone getting the vehicle moving?
I would of presumed that the best attribute for one of these patrol people would be common sense, obviously I should of just watched and dawdled past giving no help.
I'll step off my soapbox as i could rant for hours haha
Dave!
I would of presumed that the best attribute for one of these patrol people would be common sense, obviously I should of just watched and dawdled past giving no help.
I'll step off my soapbox as i could rant for hours haha
Dave!
gafferjim said:
The HATO is only a witness, a credible witness though, and if it came to court, their statement would carry a little more weight due to being "proffesional drivers" as would a driving instructor, HGV driver etc.
Edited by gafferjim on Sunday 13th May 16:59
Would you define "professional driver".Is it number of miles driven,extra qualifications,or something else?
gafferjim said:
A person who drives for a living, as opposed to pleasure.
Not my definition, but I think you'll find that's how the powers that be look at things.
Not my definition, but I think you'll find that's how the powers that be look at things.
I'm a computer engineer and do approx 50,000 miles per year.Where on he scale of professional drivers would I be do you think?
ad551 said:
On another forum...
link
Question is, how do they define dangerous driving? If someone passes them at 90 (which would feel pretty damn fast to them sitting at 50mph), would that be enough to warrant a call to the police? And could their word stand up in court?
So...good thing or bad thing? Personally, I'm doing about 150 miles a day on a motorway commute at the moment and I think they do a great job attending accidents and breakdowns, but I wouldn't want to see them taking on an enforcement role.
a HATO said:
My colleagues and I patrol 24/7 and if we see any dangerous driving we radio full details to the police for them to deal, because we have no powers of enforcement
link
Question is, how do they define dangerous driving? If someone passes them at 90 (which would feel pretty damn fast to them sitting at 50mph
), would that be enough to warrant a call to the police? And could their word stand up in court? So...good thing or bad thing? Personally, I'm doing about 150 miles a day on a motorway commute at the moment and I think they do a great job attending accidents and breakdowns, but I wouldn't want to see them taking on an enforcement role.
Edited by ad551 on Saturday 12th May 22:36
Ill post this here, as its not worthy of a separate thread, but earlier today, down my cul-de-sac was a HATO truck with two 'officers' talking sternly to one of my neighbours!
I live about 2-3mins from a motorway junction, so I was wondering what they were doing. From the body language, it did look like he was getting a ticking off from the 'officers' and the body language was very much the "I am the relaxed all powerful one, so listen, chum.".
I have never seen them off a motorway before, but this is a strange development! Are they allowed to do this?
justinp1 said:
Ill post this here, as its not worthy of a separate thread, but earlier today, down my cul-de-sac was a HATO truck with two 'officers' talking sternly to one of my neighbours!
I live about 2-3mins from a motorway junction, so I was wondering what they were doing. From the body language, it did look like he was getting a ticking off from the 'officers' and the body language was very much the "I am the relaxed all powerful one, so listen, chum.".
I have never seen them off a motorway before, but this is a strange development! Are they allowed to do this?
A: It is difficult from body language to tell what they someone is REALLY saying
B: They may have know each other
C: Yes they are "allowed" off the motorway - makes it difficult to get around the network
D: Assuming they were ticking someone off - No. Regardless. Do tell more! What was the area?
Sgt Bilko said:
justinp1 said:
Ill post this here, as its not worthy of a separate thread, but earlier today, down my cul-de-sac was a HATO truck with two 'officers' talking sternly to one of my neighbours!
I live about 2-3mins from a motorway junction, so I was wondering what they were doing. From the body language, it did look like he was getting a ticking off from the 'officers' and the body language was very much the "I am the relaxed all powerful one, so listen, chum.".
I have never seen them off a motorway before, but this is a strange development! Are they allowed to do this?
A: It is difficult from body language to tell what they someone is REALLY saying
B: They may have know each other
C: Yes they are "allowed" off the motorway - makes it difficult to get around the network
D: Assuming they were ticking someone off - No. Regardless. Do tell more! What was the area?
7% of communication is the actual words said.
38% the way they're said (intonation etc)
55% body language & facial expressions etc.
Sgt Bilko said:
justinp1 said:
Ill post this here, as its not worthy of a separate thread, but earlier today, down my cul-de-sac was a HATO truck with two 'officers' talking sternly to one of my neighbours!
I live about 2-3mins from a motorway junction, so I was wondering what they were doing. From the body language, it did look like he was getting a ticking off from the 'officers' and the body language was very much the "I am the relaxed all powerful one, so listen, chum.".
I have never seen them off a motorway before, but this is a strange development! Are they allowed to do this?
A: It is difficult from body language to tell what they someone is REALLY saying
B: They may have know each other
C: Yes they are "allowed" off the motorway - makes it difficult to get around the network
D: Assuming they were ticking someone off - No. Regardless. Do tell more! What was the area?
I am a pretty good judge of body language, I dont want to boast but I did study it at quite a high level at uni!
Their demeanour was very standoffish yet 'in control' by using forced 'I'm relaxed, you are not...' positions, with the neighbour quite meak whilst the officer was gesticulating, and the conversation ended with the neighbour shaking hands with both officers before they left, so I am sure that they didnt know eachother and the handshake was meant toward a marginally friendly 'understanding' at the end of the conversation.
I live just off the M62 near Warrington, and to get there from the motorway it is a residential area, not a 'cut through' if that makes sense, and my house is right at the end of a cul-de-sac of that road, so I am sure that they were there 'specifically' for some reason!
vonhosen said:
Sgt Bilko said:
justinp1 said:
Ill post this here, as its not worthy of a separate thread, but earlier today, down my cul-de-sac was a HATO truck with two 'officers' talking sternly to one of my neighbours!
I live about 2-3mins from a motorway junction, so I was wondering what they were doing. From the body language, it did look like he was getting a ticking off from the 'officers' and the body language was very much the "I am the relaxed all powerful one, so listen, chum.".
I have never seen them off a motorway before, but this is a strange development! Are they allowed to do this?
A: It is difficult from body language to tell what they someone is REALLY saying
B: They may have know each other
C: Yes they are "allowed" off the motorway - makes it difficult to get around the network
D: Assuming they were ticking someone off - No. Regardless. Do tell more! What was the area?
7% of communication is the actual words said.
38% the way they're said (intonation etc)
55% body language & facial expressions etc.
I thank you Von, further to my post just above which has crossed, you have made by point exactly!
I am 95% sure it was a ticking off, and am just very interested to find out the story of exactlt what it was for!
Methinks maybe a late cut across over to the slip-road, or by the way they were gesticulating, the particular junction splits in such a way where the most inside lane becomes the 'exit lane' with the further 3 lanes continuing to be the motorway.
This 'slip lane' for some reason is about 1.5 miles long, and it is very tempting if you are in it to undertake the lorries moving at 55-60mph who are technically in lane 2.
Maybe a wild guess, I dunno!
Added to that there is a slightly earlier unofficial 'cut through' which i have seen police cars use through a service station which saves going 200 yards up the slip road and back down after a roundabout on a hairpin bend, so it would have been pretty easy to cut through and follow a couple of cars behind around the next couple of roundabouts to where I live which it not more than a mile away.
My interest in this is actualy whether they had the authority to do this!
Edited by justinp1 on Monday 14th May 00:16
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