I'm contesting a parking ticket - 1 year on
Discussion
Hi guys,
I thought i'd share this with you, since I am contesting a parking ticket after I paid it 1 year ago. I obviously do not know what the outcome will be, especially after such a long time, but in light of what I have recently discovered, it is the principal behind it that is the driving force behind me to contest.
I will be 100% honest (so please don't assume otherwise) when writing this post!
During May last year I went shopping. During my rounds of the town, I went into the local Argos to buy some heavy weight lifting equipment (some dumbells, weights etc etc - quite a bit of gear).
On collecting the equipment, I moved my car from where it was previously parked (legally), into a loading bay behind the Argos store.
On returning to the car (some 30 seconds later - I forgot my receipt), a traffic warden had already put a ticket on it!
I spoke to her, who informed me that my car was the "wrong type of vehicle" to be using a loading bay. I argued that I was picking up heavy weight lifting gear, but she wouldnt have any of it, but said that if my car was an estate car, I would have "probably been ok".
At the time, although suprised that a vehicle had to be of a certain "type" to use a loading bay (...to Load!), I assumed she was right and paid the fine.
However, I have recently found out that nothing states that the loading bay can not be used by anyone, and it is the action of "loading" (or rather lack of) that constitutes an offence, and this includes a "reasonable time" allowance for collecting "goods". It is also worth mentioning that the taxation class is PLG - Private/Light Goods.
As a result, I have sent off the following letter and am awaiting a response. I would welcome your comments!:
Dear Sir/Madam,
On 05/06/2006 I received a parking ticket whilst loading my car in the designated loading bay, West Avenue, Clacton on Sea.
I spoke to the traffic warden at the time, making it clear that I was loading my car with heavy weight lifting equipment that I had previously bought from the Argos store shortly before, and that I had moved my car into the loading bay simply just to collect it.
I was told by the traffic warden that I had the “wrong type” of vehicle to use a loading bay - I will point out that the taxation class of my vehicle is PLG, therefore I am entitled to carry Light Goods. Also, it has recently come to my attention that the Parking Adjudicator has examined loading with respect to parking enforcement in the decisions reported as Jane Packer Flowers and Others on 19/07/97.
It is quite clear from the decision in “Jane Packer Flowers and Others” that private cars are capable of loading for these purposes, and that loading does not have to be of a commercial nature, and that loading includes the period away from the vehicle and that a period of several minutes is not unreasonable. (Details of this case can be found here: www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/LOADADJ.pdf )
Also, I quote, “It is sometimes said (e.g. in the Parking Attendants Handbook) that shopping is not goods. This is an oversimplification. Certainly a person buying small items is not covered (Sprake - v - Tester ) …However, the fact that goods could be described as "shopping" does not prevent the exemption applying if the other criteria are met - for example, if the goods are heavy and bulky their actual transfer to a vehicle would be "loading" under the examples given in Sprake - v - tester. And if a motorist for example brings his car round to pick up the goods once a purchase has been made” as in this case “…that would also be a "collection" provided the goods warranted the use of a vehicle (Richards - v McKnight).”
Taking this information into account, I would like to bring to your attention that the ticket was issued unfairly and not warranted, and on this basis request a full refund. (Copy of digital Receipt below).
I look forward to your response.
Yours sincerely,
G.Allen.
I thought i'd share this with you, since I am contesting a parking ticket after I paid it 1 year ago. I obviously do not know what the outcome will be, especially after such a long time, but in light of what I have recently discovered, it is the principal behind it that is the driving force behind me to contest.
I will be 100% honest (so please don't assume otherwise) when writing this post!
During May last year I went shopping. During my rounds of the town, I went into the local Argos to buy some heavy weight lifting equipment (some dumbells, weights etc etc - quite a bit of gear).
On collecting the equipment, I moved my car from where it was previously parked (legally), into a loading bay behind the Argos store.
On returning to the car (some 30 seconds later - I forgot my receipt), a traffic warden had already put a ticket on it!
I spoke to her, who informed me that my car was the "wrong type of vehicle" to be using a loading bay. I argued that I was picking up heavy weight lifting gear, but she wouldnt have any of it, but said that if my car was an estate car, I would have "probably been ok".
At the time, although suprised that a vehicle had to be of a certain "type" to use a loading bay (...to Load!), I assumed she was right and paid the fine.
However, I have recently found out that nothing states that the loading bay can not be used by anyone, and it is the action of "loading" (or rather lack of) that constitutes an offence, and this includes a "reasonable time" allowance for collecting "goods". It is also worth mentioning that the taxation class is PLG - Private/Light Goods.
As a result, I have sent off the following letter and am awaiting a response. I would welcome your comments!:
Dear Sir/Madam,
On 05/06/2006 I received a parking ticket whilst loading my car in the designated loading bay, West Avenue, Clacton on Sea.
I spoke to the traffic warden at the time, making it clear that I was loading my car with heavy weight lifting equipment that I had previously bought from the Argos store shortly before, and that I had moved my car into the loading bay simply just to collect it.
I was told by the traffic warden that I had the “wrong type” of vehicle to use a loading bay - I will point out that the taxation class of my vehicle is PLG, therefore I am entitled to carry Light Goods. Also, it has recently come to my attention that the Parking Adjudicator has examined loading with respect to parking enforcement in the decisions reported as Jane Packer Flowers and Others on 19/07/97.
It is quite clear from the decision in “Jane Packer Flowers and Others” that private cars are capable of loading for these purposes, and that loading does not have to be of a commercial nature, and that loading includes the period away from the vehicle and that a period of several minutes is not unreasonable. (Details of this case can be found here: www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/LOADADJ.pdf )
Also, I quote, “It is sometimes said (e.g. in the Parking Attendants Handbook) that shopping is not goods. This is an oversimplification. Certainly a person buying small items is not covered (Sprake - v - Tester ) …However, the fact that goods could be described as "shopping" does not prevent the exemption applying if the other criteria are met - for example, if the goods are heavy and bulky their actual transfer to a vehicle would be "loading" under the examples given in Sprake - v - tester. And if a motorist for example brings his car round to pick up the goods once a purchase has been made” as in this case “…that would also be a "collection" provided the goods warranted the use of a vehicle (Richards - v McKnight).”
Taking this information into account, I would like to bring to your attention that the ticket was issued unfairly and not warranted, and on this basis request a full refund. (Copy of digital Receipt below).
I look forward to your response.
Yours sincerely,
G.Allen.
Edited by Gallen (BPH) on Tuesday 22 May 14:47
Gallen said:
Hi guys,
I thought i'd share this with you, since I am contesting a parking ticket after I paid it 1 year ago.
I thought i'd share this with you, since I am contesting a parking ticket after I paid it 1 year ago.
I would have been more inclined to have researched it at the time, and certainly would have put it down to experience now..
Edited by carrotchomper on Tuesday 22 May 15:13
Not aware of any time limit in lodging an appeal but there could be and the fact that it has taken 1 year and initially the PCN was accepted and paid could weight heavy.
My first port of call would have been to see the Traffic Order to see what it said about which vehicles could or could not use the bay (if any). I doubt it would contain such a prohibition.
dvd
My first port of call would have been to see the Traffic Order to see what it said about which vehicles could or could not use the bay (if any). I doubt it would contain such a prohibition.
dvd
I agree with your comments regarding the Time gap - but it's the principal of it that annoys and concerns me, and I do think that the time is irrelivant if the ticket was unjust!
Just to add, at the time it happened, I was in the process of splitting up with my long term girlfreind (mid life crisis, hence the weights maybe?!!!) so I had more pressing things to mind, which is why I didnt look into the details - I also assumed the Traffic warden was "right" and I was "wrong", which apparantly is not the case!
Just to add, at the time it happened, I was in the process of splitting up with my long term girlfreind (mid life crisis, hence the weights maybe?!!!) so I had more pressing things to mind, which is why I didnt look into the details - I also assumed the Traffic warden was "right" and I was "wrong", which apparantly is not the case!
Dwight VanDriver said:
Not aware of any time limit in lodging an appeal but there could be and the fact that it has taken 1 year and initially the PCN was accepted and paid could weight heavy.
Inclined to disagree. Imagine there was HoL decision which showed that a batch of people had been wrongly convicted. They wouldn't be barred from appealing their original conviction.
esselte said:
Well with respect to the time taken to appeal,people have been pardoned years after the event for other offences......
Just to be pedantic, a pardon does not overturn a conviction. It upholds the conviction, but sets aside the punishment.
- Streakykenp said:
Dwight VanDriver said:
Not aware of any time limit in lodging an appeal but there could be and the fact that it has taken 1 year and initially the PCN was accepted and paid could weight heavy.
Inclined to disagree. Imagine there was HoL decision which showed that a batch of people had been wrongly convicted. They wouldn't be barred from appealing their original conviction.esselte said:
Well with respect to the time taken to appeal,people have been pardoned years after the event for other offences......
Just to be pedantic, a pardon does not overturn a conviction. It upholds the conviction, but sets aside the punishment.
Kenp
Question?
Are you not mixing criminal law up with civil law?
Under criminal law there is a statutory bases proceedure right up to the Hourse Of Lords. Under CL there is a right of appeal after a conviction under certain circumstances against conviction.
PCN comes under civil law - (decriminalised parking law) - and as far as I can see there is a clear appeal procedure that starts with non acceptance of the first PCN not after it has been paid and the buck stops at the Parking Adjudicator. Period.
dvd
Question?
Are you not mixing criminal law up with civil law?
Under criminal law there is a statutory bases proceedure right up to the Hourse Of Lords. Under CL there is a right of appeal after a conviction under certain circumstances against conviction.
PCN comes under civil law - (decriminalised parking law) - and as far as I can see there is a clear appeal procedure that starts with non acceptance of the first PCN not after it has been paid and the buck stops at the Parking Adjudicator. Period.
dvd
I successfully appealed a loadingbay parking ticket, and I have a an Alfa GTV which is hardly a goods vehicle... I told them I was loading luggage into my car from my flat and the car had been there for less than the 15 minutes stated on the sign (I live on the street of the loading bay, and this is where my car is registered) The car had been parked there overnight, (it is ok to park there till 7am, I got the ticket at 7.50am) After the second letter of the appeal stage they gave up and I paid nothing.
Hello,
It appears you challenged the issue of the PCN verbally with the attendant but that wont count as a formal challenge.
When you recieve the 'Notice to Owner' you have 28 days to formally challenge the decision.
If the challenge is rejected you have 28 days to lodge an appeal with NPAS(PATAS in London).
As you don't appear to have challenged the PCN within 28 days you will not be able to do so now. Neither will you be able to appeal to NPAS. (You can only appeal against a rejection of your challenge, not the issue itself).
I do like your letter however.
I imagine 'type of vehicle' is a policy decision of the authority. In other words if you're in a car you need to prove to them you were loading. Doesn't mean it has authority and you should never assume because the attendant gives you a feasible explanation that it is correct. But yo know that now!
It appears you challenged the issue of the PCN verbally with the attendant but that wont count as a formal challenge.
When you recieve the 'Notice to Owner' you have 28 days to formally challenge the decision.
If the challenge is rejected you have 28 days to lodge an appeal with NPAS(PATAS in London).
As you don't appear to have challenged the PCN within 28 days you will not be able to do so now. Neither will you be able to appeal to NPAS. (You can only appeal against a rejection of your challenge, not the issue itself).
I do like your letter however.
I imagine 'type of vehicle' is a policy decision of the authority. In other words if you're in a car you need to prove to them you were loading. Doesn't mean it has authority and you should never assume because the attendant gives you a feasible explanation that it is correct. But yo know that now!
Edited by Zeeky on Tuesday 29th May 00:36
Although you don't take an oath when giving evidence at an appeal you could still be prosecuted if you are found to be lying. Lying is always illegal where justice and money are involved.
However, versions of events often conflict in tribunals of fact and the adjudicator accepting one side's story over the other's doesn't mean the other is guilty of lying.
http://archive.thisisdorset.net/2006/6/12/116962.html
However, versions of events often conflict in tribunals of fact and the adjudicator accepting one side's story over the other's doesn't mean the other is guilty of lying.
http://archive.thisisdorset.net/2006/6/12/116962.html
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