ow why am I not surprised at this.......
Discussion
ATG said:
Oh look! A sensationalist article reporting a non-story.
Whether its a story or not is dependent on the facts behind every case. If Police Officers are being treated more leniently than non-police drivers then it is a story.Police Officers being better trained than the rest of us in theory have less excuses for exceeding the speed limit other than when operationally required to do so. In most cases it seems that Police Officers are able to seek to have potential NIP quashed before it is issued.
It may be this approach is correct and obviously we do not want to waste police officers time attending court to state they were on operational duties at the time. However it does seem that there are an extraordinarly high ratio of police drivers which are let off, and the figures are higher in some forces than others which would seem odd.
I don't see the ratio as being 'extraordinarily' high. Police speed legitimately for a significant proportion of their driving duties. They cover zillions of miles a year. They are going to be caught in speed traps all the time.
The exemptions are much broader than 'emergency response' which means it is very unlikely a Police officer will speed whilst on duty and not have a valid reason that will scupper a prosecution.
The exemptions are much broader than 'emergency response' which means it is very unlikely a Police officer will speed whilst on duty and not have a valid reason that will scupper a prosecution.
dickymint said:
Perhaps so few officers are prosecuted, because so few are actually shown to be breaking the law when traveling at speeds in excess of the limit, as they were using a lawful exemption when doing so.If any emergency vehicle is on a genuine shout the F
k the cameras and boot it BUT with Blues and 2s on.
If not then they should get the same treatment as any other driver, there is no room for hypocracy.
I was listening to the radio earlier when a " spokesman" said it was difficult to identify the driover of the police car on many occasions as it would intail trying to find who was driving what car on any given day and records just do not exist.
WHY?
Every other company, organisation and individual is expected to know, keep records and or take all reasonable steps to find out who was driving any given vehicle on any given day and legally obliged to shop them.
What are the Police any different?
k the cameras and boot it BUT with Blues and 2s on.If not then they should get the same treatment as any other driver, there is no room for hypocracy.
I was listening to the radio earlier when a " spokesman" said it was difficult to identify the driover of the police car on many occasions as it would intail trying to find who was driving what car on any given day and records just do not exist.
WHY?
Every other company, organisation and individual is expected to know, keep records and or take all reasonable steps to find out who was driving any given vehicle on any given day and legally obliged to shop them.
What are the Police any different?
I don't know how many times I have said it but here goes again.
1. You don't go to all urgent shouts with blues and twos on ( for obvious reasons)
2. Vehicle may be plain car and not have them fitted.
3. Exemption does not have to be an 'emergency'. Bit tricky to define anyway.
AS I say 10 an hour spread over the country seems quite low to me.
1. You don't go to all urgent shouts with blues and twos on ( for obvious reasons)
2. Vehicle may be plain car and not have them fitted.
3. Exemption does not have to be an 'emergency'. Bit tricky to define anyway.
AS I say 10 an hour spread over the country seems quite low to me.
Chrispy Porker said:
I don't know how many times I have said it but here goes again.
1. You don't go to all urgent shouts with blues and twos on ( for obvious reasons)
2. Vehicle may be plain car and not have them fitted.
3. Exemption does not have to be an 'emergency'. Bit tricky to define anyway.
AS I say 10 an hour spread over the country seems quite low to me.
I'll remember that next time I get to 12 points.1. You don't go to all urgent shouts with blues and twos on ( for obvious reasons)
2. Vehicle may be plain car and not have them fitted.
3. Exemption does not have to be an 'emergency'. Bit tricky to define anyway.
AS I say 10 an hour spread over the country seems quite low to me.
" 4 times in 3 years and 180,000 miles seems quite low to me"
That'll get me off, I'm sure!
Chrispy Porker said:
I don't know how many times I have said it but here goes again.
1. You don't go to all urgent shouts with blues and twos on ( for obvious reasons)
2. Vehicle may be plain car and not have them fitted
.
I thought that the whole point to speed limits was road safety yet you now condone unmarked cars and car no sirens or lights to alert other driver, diving through areas where the KSI rate is so high as to warrant a Camera at excessive speed?1. You don't go to all urgent shouts with blues and twos on ( for obvious reasons)
2. Vehicle may be plain car and not have them fitted
.
Chrispy Porker said:
3. Exemption does not have to be an 'emergency'. Bit tricky to define anyway.
So what other justification is there for a police car to brake the law they so strongly uphold with the rest of us? Take-away getting cold?
Corry about to start?
odyssey2200 said:
Chrispy Porker said:
I don't know how many times I have said it but here goes again.
1. You don't go to all urgent shouts with blues and twos on ( for obvious reasons)
2. Vehicle may be plain car and not have them fitted
.
I thought that the whole point to speed limits was road safety yet you now condone unmarked cars and car no sirens or lights to alert other driver, diving through areas where the KSI rate is so high as to warrant a Camera at excessive speed?1. You don't go to all urgent shouts with blues and twos on ( for obvious reasons)
2. Vehicle may be plain car and not have them fitted
.
Chrispy Porker said:
3. Exemption does not have to be an 'emergency'. Bit tricky to define anyway.
So what other justification is there for a police car to brake the law they so strongly uphold with the rest of us? Take-away getting cold?
Corry about to start?
Answer to second question: Define 'emergency'. Again I am paraphrasing the law not just making it up as I go along.Don't forget until the police get to a job they don't know what the real situation is.
Another point: using a legitimate exemption is not, by definition, breaking the law.
Emergency should be defined and a clear permission give with each job.
Decided upon by someone at the call center who took the call, not by the driver who can and will abuse his discretion.
No othere driver has the right to excercise such discretion, many have tried and paid the price.
If a police car is speeding in an area already defined as a black spot to the extent that this is used as justification for a piggy, sorry camera then the potential damger should warrent B&2s.
Or are you saying you are happy to endanger the lifes of members of the public just so laong as you get your fix and a nick?
Decided upon by someone at the call center who took the call, not by the driver who can and will abuse his discretion.
No othere driver has the right to excercise such discretion, many have tried and paid the price.
If a police car is speeding in an area already defined as a black spot to the extent that this is used as justification for a piggy, sorry camera then the potential damger should warrent B&2s.
Or are you saying you are happy to endanger the lifes of members of the public just so laong as you get your fix and a nick?
So If an unmarked, or silent car goes past a camera at 40 in a 30, at 0400 am when the streets are deserted, to get to a report of burglars on that should result in a prosecution for the driver?
I think your idea of how policing operates in the real world is a bit odd if you don't mind me saying.
When I did response work sometimes we went to dozens of grade 1 calls in a shift. I am sure the current response cars are busier than we were. And yet only just over 10 activations an hour in the whole country.? (52 forces)
Why not find a real issue to worry about.?
I think your idea of how policing operates in the real world is a bit odd if you don't mind me saying.
When I did response work sometimes we went to dozens of grade 1 calls in a shift. I am sure the current response cars are busier than we were. And yet only just over 10 activations an hour in the whole country.? (52 forces)
Why not find a real issue to worry about.?
Edited by Chrispy Porker on Tuesday 29th May 18:34
odyssey2200 said:
Emergency should be defined and a clear permission give with each job.
Decided upon by someone at the call center who took the call, not by the driver who can and will abuse his discretion.
No othere driver has the right to excercise such discretion, many have tried and paid the price.
If a police car is speeding in an area already defined as a black spot to the extent that this is used as justification for a piggy, sorry camera then the potential damger should warrent B&2s.
Or are you saying you are happy to endanger the lifes of members of the public just so laong as you get your fix and a nick?
Odyssey, from your posts it appears that you don't really understand the multitude of reasons that police have for exceeding the speed limit in order to police effectively. Think through your control room idea for more than a few moments.Decided upon by someone at the call center who took the call, not by the driver who can and will abuse his discretion.
No othere driver has the right to excercise such discretion, many have tried and paid the price.
If a police car is speeding in an area already defined as a black spot to the extent that this is used as justification for a piggy, sorry camera then the potential damger should warrent B&2s.
Or are you saying you are happy to endanger the lifes of members of the public just so laong as you get your fix and a nick?
Frankly you appear to have the attitiude, I can't speed therefore the police shouldn't either.
NCC1701 said:
odyssey2200 said:
Emergency should be defined and a clear permission give with each job.
Decided upon by someone at the call center who took the call, not by the driver who can and will abuse his discretion.
No othere driver has the right to excercise such discretion, many have tried and paid the price.
If a police car is speeding in an area already defined as a black spot to the extent that this is used as justification for a piggy, sorry camera then the potential damger should warrent B&2s.
Or are you saying you are happy to endanger the lifes of members of the public just so laong as you get your fix and a nick?
The law is the law and should apply for all.Decided upon by someone at the call center who took the call, not by the driver who can and will abuse his discretion.
No othere driver has the right to excercise such discretion, many have tried and paid the price.
If a police car is speeding in an area already defined as a black spot to the extent that this is used as justification for a piggy, sorry camera then the potential damger should warrent B&2s.
Or are you saying you are happy to endanger the lifes of members of the public just so laong as you get your fix and a nick?
Perhaps you could enlighten me as to a few of the justifications for ploice speeding when not on a shout?
Odyssey, from your posts it appears that you don't really understand the multitude of reasons that police have for exceeding the speed limit in order to police effectively. Think through your control room idea for more than a few moments.
Frankly you appear to have the attitiude, I can't speed therefore the police shouldn't either.
vonhosen said:
dickymint said:
Perhaps so few officers are prosecuted, because so few are actually shown to be breaking the law when traveling at speeds in excess of the limit, as they were using a lawful exemption when doing so.
Ach! "Testing a car"
Ach! Getting a takeaway.. getting pinged on the way .. but Lo! A gift horse from "management" - an "emergency"
Quick thinking cap =
muppet police officer said:
"can use this one to wiggle my way outa this fine
Doh! It too far away so I'll go get me spare ribs after all. What a sweet result for me und sour one for them Moppets"
Ja - but they proesecuted the ambulance driver who was transporting a donated organ of limited shelf life Doh! It too far away so I'll go get me spare ribs after all. What a sweet result for me und sour one for them Moppets"
He only let off when public at large got really cross about it. They realised this would have killed the golden goose at this point. Shame - should have gone to court und be seen for the cash cow farce it really ist 
But let us get one thing straight. In urban area - it take anything up to 8 minutes for an ambulance to reach you. (Less if in town centre und you get the Fast Response Team on their bicycles
) But if you live in rural area like us - we are looking at at least 20 - 40 minutes for an ambulance to arrive. That ist a long time in an emergency und why it ist sometimes quicker to drive the injured or ill person to the hospital yourself as you can halve the time. Bear in mind that this time to reach you ist doubled as they have to drive the return journey
(Air ambulance? Cumbria shares with other areas in North West und ist really strapped for cash - to extent that Steviebabes even considered using part of his fine funds to help it stay in the air more - und I would not really argue with him over that one to be honest as ist better use of the money than yet more scams )) My point in typing up all that?
I will be selfish. I had bad incident once. I was lucky to survive that. I was blessed on recovery by two pregnancies which were not planned - but not so easy as I make out to go through. I was classed as "high risk" throughout them. Am Roman Catholic und a medical researcher - termination was no option. Who am I to deny life anyway?But Mad Doc had some worries about me. You see - because of what happened - I do have some bother with breathing on serious exercise. Ist why I cannot compete in ski-ing or skating anymore. I still enjoy these sports - but at a leisurely pace. Likewise cycling und walking. So long as I can "take five" - fine.
Only giving birth requires a lot of stamina, pushing und breathing correctly whilst doing so. He worry in case things go wrong which they can do. No one actually knows till it happen.
So - he phone all services to let them know we are on the way. He drive on his green light und he drive at a fairly brisk but safe pace. Fortunately no vans or cams en route
But what if there had been?
Or what if baby seem "imminent" but turn out to be false alarm? Und he decide to go home again?I would bet a magistrate would not be as gullible with such a genuinely mitigating circumstance as with a policeman ordering takeaway - hearing shout by chance on radio - milks it - und then goes for his meal after all.
Now it ist not Bib bashing und we have already discussed these cases to the death of exhaustion in the past - but it ist mud which sticks in the mind of many Public Joes und Josephines.
I will make it very plain that the Tony Recs/silvery mikes/porky tasty scratchings/ geminis/ vons/ gones und Dibbles have greater integrity than these misfits to blue serge uniforms complete with funny hats to offer to pregnant ladies in distress
But you know this minority of idiots who flout the laws und stick two fingers up to the public let you all down - badly.
I have zero problems with genuine calls und always - ALWAYS - create a space which does not compromise my own or any one else's safety when I hear und see a police car obviously on a call - und even when they do not use blues und twos - I still assist their overtakes as they may be "on stealth to catch a criminal without being "obvious about it"
I do have issues with the Miltons und the Chinese takeway BiB und the one who hit a pedestrian .. ran.. resprayed his car.. tried to blame his girlfriend who very sensibly dobbed him in to his bosses. Alas - pee-cee silliness prevented them from sacking him - but no one wanted to be his partner on a shift thereafter und I hear from family BiB in that force that he quietly resign
Wrong 'uns undermine any profession und these weeds should be rooted out relentlessly
So von Liebchen - have not that many issues - only those to do with justice for all und police enforce the law. They are not above this law und "testing cars" or just speeding for no reason but hiding behind some "excuse" ist a
Durham cop was pinged by a Cleveland Gatso when he was travelling in that area to take a witness statement. Durham Cops contested this. Court did not agree with them on that occasion.
It was not an "emergency" even though on "police business" For record - they did not provide ping records. But like N Yorks - they cannot as they have no fixed Gatsos as such
Off-duty cops copped by on duty cops would be a different FOI request
probably Am trying to be fair here. But von - you must admit that a uniform does not make one perfect und the bloke on the Vine prog did meet Paulie half way too
I have given birth to five very sassy children und adopted two very precious children - am proud of these children: they cause headaches but are deep down quite nice (have to say that cos the three eldest do post on here as drivers
now ) odyssey2200 said:
Emergency should be defined and a clear permission give with each job.
So is that definition based on the information given, or the information "known" at the time the call goes through to the call centre? Or would it be a better idea to let the driver use their skills, training and local knowledge?odyssey2200 said:
Decided upon by someone at the call center who took the call
So you'll happily have the decision on the driving made by someone who may be many miles away, who may not hold a driving licence, and is most probably a civilian employee, without the discipline issues that officers have when or if it goes wrong?odyssey2200 said:
not by the driver who can and will abuse his discretion.
What "facts" are you basing that on, exactly?odyssey2200 said:
No other driver has the right to excercise such discretion, many have tried and paid the price.
Fire brigade and ambulance drivers have similar EXEMPTIONS in law.odyssey2200 said:
If a police car is speeding in an area already defined as a black spot to the extent that this is used as justification for a piggy, sorry camera then the potential damger should warrent B&2s.
So now you're saying you think all GATSOs are a good idea, are you?odyssey2200 said:
Or are you saying you are happy to endanger the lifes of members of the public just so laong as you get your fix and a nick?
Get. A. Grip. Stop insulting the BiB on here.Yes, I am sure there are Police (and also Fire/Ambulance) who have set off cameras and got away with it when they should have been prosecuted. I am equally sure that this is a very very samll number.
vonhosen said:
dickymint said:
Perhaps so few officers are prosecuted, because so few are actually shown to be breaking the law when traveling at speeds in excess of the limit, as they were using a lawful exemption when doing so.You might as well say 'Do as we say, not as we do'.
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