Discussion
We've all seen the small numbers of buses actually using bus lanes when we're sitting in a jam, but have you noticed that most of them are almost empty?
I wonder if there are any statistics held by bus companies detailing the average number of passengers on their buses? I'd love to get hold of those figures under FOI.
When some lentilist starts banging on about how great buses/bus lanes are I always explain how they're wasting road that has a more desperate need -- ie 500 cars even with 1 or 2 people would make better use of that road than the single bus with three passengers that rumbles through in a cloud of smoke every 45 minutes.
Has anyone looked into this? I mean, imagine how peed off Johnny Motorist would be if he knew that 50% of many road miles were being used exclusively by 0.01% of the travellers?
SM
I wonder if there are any statistics held by bus companies detailing the average number of passengers on their buses? I'd love to get hold of those figures under FOI.
When some lentilist starts banging on about how great buses/bus lanes are I always explain how they're wasting road that has a more desperate need -- ie 500 cars even with 1 or 2 people would make better use of that road than the single bus with three passengers that rumbles through in a cloud of smoke every 45 minutes.
Has anyone looked into this? I mean, imagine how peed off Johnny Motorist would be if he knew that 50% of many road miles were being used exclusively by 0.01% of the travellers?
SM
Words fail me sometimes when I read some of the posts on this site.
Firstly, I don't know where you live but in London the buses are generally full a lot of the time. Secondly, buses are more efficient (and I'm not talking strictly about fuel) than cars. If you've got 50 people in a bus that is 15 metres long and 5 tons in weight then this is substantially less than 50 cars in a line of traffic. They use (per head of each passenger mile travelled) less fuel than cars do, which has to be good. Take into account the space they save and I don't see how anyone could possibly have any complaints.
Personally, I'm in favour of bus lanes as they do two very good things: 1) they hack off car drivers who think they are a waste of a lane, and 2) allow me to travel along in my pushbike (at about 20mph+) in my own personal lane, and I love it: almost as much as I love 'undertaking' all the gridlocked cars in the, ahem, fast lane.
Firstly, I don't know where you live but in London the buses are generally full a lot of the time. Secondly, buses are more efficient (and I'm not talking strictly about fuel) than cars. If you've got 50 people in a bus that is 15 metres long and 5 tons in weight then this is substantially less than 50 cars in a line of traffic. They use (per head of each passenger mile travelled) less fuel than cars do, which has to be good. Take into account the space they save and I don't see how anyone could possibly have any complaints.
Personally, I'm in favour of bus lanes as they do two very good things: 1) they hack off car drivers who think they are a waste of a lane, and 2) allow me to travel along in my pushbike (at about 20mph+) in my own personal lane, and I love it: almost as much as I love 'undertaking' all the gridlocked cars in the, ahem, fast lane.
DeMolay said:
Personally, I'm in favour of bus lanes as they do two very good things: 1) they hack off car drivers who think they are a waste of a lane, and 2) allow me to travel along in my pushbike (at about 20mph+) in my own personal lane, and I love it: almost as much as I love 'undertaking' all the gridlocked cars in the, ahem, fast lane.
I like to hear a balanced argument where the pros and cons for everyone impacted are weighed up using logical arguments. 
DeMolay said:
how anyone could possibly have any complaints.
Personally, I'm in favour of bus lanes as they do two very good things: 1) they hack off car drivers who think they are a waste of a lane, and 2) allow me to travel along in my pushbike (at about 20mph+) in my own personal lane, and I love it: almost as much as I love 'undertaking' all the gridlocked cars in the, ahem, fast lane.
Whilst I like to watch the cyclists getting wet through and cold in the rain while I sit in my warm, dry car....Personally, I'm in favour of bus lanes as they do two very good things: 1) they hack off car drivers who think they are a waste of a lane, and 2) allow me to travel along in my pushbike (at about 20mph+) in my own personal lane, and I love it: almost as much as I love 'undertaking' all the gridlocked cars in the, ahem, fast lane.
DeMolay said:
Words fail me sometimes when I read some of the posts on this site.
Firstly, I don't know where you live but in London the buses are generally full a lot of the time.
No they are not. I drive to and from work every day at around 8 in the morning and between 8 and 10 in the evening. In the mornings, some buses are full, some are empty. In the evenings, I don't care because the bus lanes don't operate.Firstly, I don't know where you live but in London the buses are generally full a lot of the time.
My route is Highgate to City down Holloway Road.
DeMolay said:
Words fail me sometimes when I read some of the posts on this site.
Firstly, I don't know where you live but in London the buses are generally full a lot of the time. Secondly, buses are more efficient (and I'm not talking strictly about fuel) than cars. If you've got 50 people in a bus that is 15 metres long and 5 tons in weight then this is substantially less than 50 cars in a line of traffic. They use (per head of each passenger mile travelled) less fuel than cars do, which has to be good. Take into account the space they save and I don't see how anyone could possibly have any complaints.
Personally, I'm in favour of bus lanes as they do two very good things: 1) they hack off car drivers who think they are a waste of a lane, and 2) allow me to travel along in my pushbike (at about 20mph+) in my own personal lane, and I love it: almost as much as I love 'undertaking' all the gridlocked cars in the, ahem, fast lane.
and in there, you have shown your ignorance.Firstly, I don't know where you live but in London the buses are generally full a lot of the time. Secondly, buses are more efficient (and I'm not talking strictly about fuel) than cars. If you've got 50 people in a bus that is 15 metres long and 5 tons in weight then this is substantially less than 50 cars in a line of traffic. They use (per head of each passenger mile travelled) less fuel than cars do, which has to be good. Take into account the space they save and I don't see how anyone could possibly have any complaints.
Personally, I'm in favour of bus lanes as they do two very good things: 1) they hack off car drivers who think they are a waste of a lane, and 2) allow me to travel along in my pushbike (at about 20mph+) in my own personal lane, and I love it: almost as much as I love 'undertaking' all the gridlocked cars in the, ahem, fast lane.
The country is much bigger than its capital city sir
DeMolay said:
Secondly, buses are more efficient (and I'm not talking strictly about fuel) than cars. If you've got 50 people in a bus that is 15 metres long and 5 tons in weight then this is substantially less than 50 cars in a line of traffic. They use (per head of each passenger mile travelled) less fuel than cars do, which has to be good. Take into account the space they save and I don't see how anyone could possibly have any complaints.
Erm, try NOT making up statistics to suit your own biased opinions:-1) A 50-person bus DOES NOT way 5 tonnes. It weighs between 10 and 15 tonnes, fully-loaded.
2) Your average bus (outside of London), during the course of a day, has a passenger loading of at best 50% and on some (rural) routes 20%.
Conclusion 1: Therefore it is carrying between 10 and 25 people while weighing 8-12x the weight of your average car. Thus your average car journey would only need to carry between 1.5 and 2 people to have the same gross-weight-per-passenger profile (which is one of the key factors in efficiency)
3) Further, it travels a set route, which may not be the most direct route for most passengers. Therefore it travels further than a car needs to, further reducing it's efficiency.
4) About half the buses around our way are >10 years old, meaning they're using very old (and smoky) diesel engines, which are far more polluting than a modern engine. Hardly any buses are <2 years old and would have particulate filters.
Conclusion 2: Buses are slower, noisier, more time-inefficient, probably more fuel-inefficient per passenger-journey, yet they are pitched as 'green' transport!!! If it was a brand-new bus on a high-demand route, then yes it probably is. On average, no it's not.
DeMolay said:
TTwiggy said:
<...> just a couple of window lickers on board.
Personal insults are not allowed on this forum I believe. However, that comment is unacceptable. You, sir, are a troglodyte and your attitude is nothing short of contemptible.
DeMolay said:
Personally, I'm in favour of bus lanes as they do two very good things: 1) they hack off car drivers who think they are a waste of a lane, and 2) allow me to travel along in my pushbike (at about 20mph+) in my own personal lane, and I love it: almost as much as I love 'undertaking' all the gridlocked cars in the, ahem, fast lane.
Sir - I believe you're on the wrong forum. This is where people who are interested in all things cars have debates about them and all that affects them. You may want to visit hereDeMolay said:
TTwiggy said:
<...> just a couple of window lickers on board.
Personal insults are not allowed on this forum I believe. However, that comment is unacceptable. You, sir, are a troglodyte and your attitude is nothing short of contemptible.
point two - why, exactly, are you on a car forum?
Edited by TTwiggy on Thursday 14th June 14:30
In case my 'window licker' comment has offended, let me explain...
My girlfriend (who is a proffesional woman - she works as an architect) has to get on two buses every day. This is because she lives in SE London, and works in SW London. We southerners never got the tube links that the north did, so the only was of getting from one side to the other is by bus.
The catalogue of abuse, threats of violence and poor service she has endured in 18 months would make a very long list, so sorry, but 'window licker' is the LEAST offensive term I could come up with for some of the 'people' found on the big red things...
My girlfriend (who is a proffesional woman - she works as an architect) has to get on two buses every day. This is because she lives in SE London, and works in SW London. We southerners never got the tube links that the north did, so the only was of getting from one side to the other is by bus.
The catalogue of abuse, threats of violence and poor service she has endured in 18 months would make a very long list, so sorry, but 'window licker' is the LEAST offensive term I could come up with for some of the 'people' found on the big red things...
supermono said:
I'd love to get hold of those figures under FOI.
Good luck. I have worked in the industry and I can tell you they have no idea what so ever how many people are on their buses. Yes you can get the revenue information from the ticket machines (when drivers use them) but it wont count bus passes, weekly/monthly/annual tickets etc.
One or two buses dotted around the country have IR beams, pads on the steps and suspension monitors but they are woefully inaccurate & expensive.
The sad fact is LAs spend millions in subsidy's in a de-regulated market where they have absolutely no idea the value they are getting for it.
Same goes for trains and come to think of it, roads!
TTwiggy said:
In case my 'window licker' comment has offended, let me explain...
My girlfriend (who is a proffesional woman - she works as an architect) has to get on two buses every day. This is because she lives in SE London, and works in SW London. We southerners never got the tube links that the north did, so the only was of getting from one side to the other is by bus.
The catalogue of abuse, threats of violence and poor service she has endured in 18 months would make a very long list, so sorry, but 'window licker' is the LEAST offensive term I could come up with for some of the 'people' found on the big red things...
Perhaps your understanding of the term and DeMolay's understanding of the term differ somewhat. Google it if you are in doubt...My girlfriend (who is a proffesional woman - she works as an architect) has to get on two buses every day. This is because she lives in SE London, and works in SW London. We southerners never got the tube links that the north did, so the only was of getting from one side to the other is by bus.
The catalogue of abuse, threats of violence and poor service she has endured in 18 months would make a very long list, so sorry, but 'window licker' is the LEAST offensive term I could come up with for some of the 'people' found on the big red things...
Personally, I think it was an inappropriate choice of words to describe people who have threatened, abused and intimidated your girlfriend.. Chavs, thugs, yobs, even vermin would have been far better suited..
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