UK roads no longer the safest in Europe........
Discussion
http://www.dailymail.co.uk:80/pages/live/articles/...
The UK no longer has the safest roads in Europe, according to a new report.
The country has lost its top ranking position in the European road safety league as progress on reducing the number of road deaths has been slower than in other countries.
The UK now has a higher number of road deaths per million population than the Netherlands and Sweden, according to the European Transport Safety Council's (ETSC) first Road Safety PIN Report.
The report's findings were released at a conference on UK road safety organised by the ETSC and Loughborough University's Vehicle Safety Research Centre (VSRC).
The report shows that between 2001 and 2005 there was a 7 per cent reduction in the number of road deaths in the UK compared to a 25 per cent reduction in Sweden and the Netherlands and a 35 per cent drop in France.
However while the number of drink-driving related deaths has remained high over the past decade, the average driving speed has dropped by 9 per cent on urban roads.
There has been a 3 per cent reduction in the average speed on roads with a 70mph speed-limit but roads where the top speed is 60mph have seen an 9 per cent increase in the average speed of vehicles.
Only in France, Belgium and Switzerland have speeds been cut on all types of road in recent years.
In 2005, 90% of people sitting in the front seats of cars and vans in the UK wore seatbelts but the proportion people wearing seatbelts in the front seats of vehicles in France, Germany and Malta was even higher.
Professor Richard Allsop, ETSC Board Member and Chairman of the PIN Programme, said: "Much road safety policy and practice in the UK is good, but these comparisons with our fellow-Europeans come as a wake-up call to anyone tempted to acquiesce in present levels of death and injury on our roads - perhaps especially those concerned with priorities for law-enforcement."
Professor Pete Thomas, from VSRC, said: "The UK has been a leader in road and vehicle safety for many years helping to set the standard for Europe.
"Progress in reducing road deaths has slowed and the UK has to develop more innovative solutions and apply them."
Robert Gifford, executive director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety, said: "This objective analysis of the performance of the UK reminds us of how much more progress we need to make.
"We used to claim that we had the safest roads in Europe. That claim is no longer matched in reality. The UK clearly needs to do much more to reclaim its position at the top of the EU road safety league."
Road Safety Minister Stephen Ladyman said Britain has some of the safest roads in the world.
He said: "Indeed when assessed on the basis of fatalities per passenger kilometre, which I believe is the best indicator to use when drawing a comparison as it takes into account both the number of fatalities and level of passenger mobility, Britain is second only to Sweden.
"We have been congratulated by the ETSC for reducing overall speeds on urban roads and continually improving seatbelt wearing rates.
"Alongside this, we have already met our target of halving the number of children killed or seriously injured by 2010."
The UK no longer has the safest roads in Europe, according to a new report.
The country has lost its top ranking position in the European road safety league as progress on reducing the number of road deaths has been slower than in other countries.
The UK now has a higher number of road deaths per million population than the Netherlands and Sweden, according to the European Transport Safety Council's (ETSC) first Road Safety PIN Report.
The report's findings were released at a conference on UK road safety organised by the ETSC and Loughborough University's Vehicle Safety Research Centre (VSRC).
The report shows that between 2001 and 2005 there was a 7 per cent reduction in the number of road deaths in the UK compared to a 25 per cent reduction in Sweden and the Netherlands and a 35 per cent drop in France.
However while the number of drink-driving related deaths has remained high over the past decade, the average driving speed has dropped by 9 per cent on urban roads.
There has been a 3 per cent reduction in the average speed on roads with a 70mph speed-limit but roads where the top speed is 60mph have seen an 9 per cent increase in the average speed of vehicles.
Only in France, Belgium and Switzerland have speeds been cut on all types of road in recent years.
In 2005, 90% of people sitting in the front seats of cars and vans in the UK wore seatbelts but the proportion people wearing seatbelts in the front seats of vehicles in France, Germany and Malta was even higher.
Professor Richard Allsop, ETSC Board Member and Chairman of the PIN Programme, said: "Much road safety policy and practice in the UK is good, but these comparisons with our fellow-Europeans come as a wake-up call to anyone tempted to acquiesce in present levels of death and injury on our roads - perhaps especially those concerned with priorities for law-enforcement."
Professor Pete Thomas, from VSRC, said: "The UK has been a leader in road and vehicle safety for many years helping to set the standard for Europe.
"Progress in reducing road deaths has slowed and the UK has to develop more innovative solutions and apply them."
Robert Gifford, executive director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety, said: "This objective analysis of the performance of the UK reminds us of how much more progress we need to make.
"We used to claim that we had the safest roads in Europe. That claim is no longer matched in reality. The UK clearly needs to do much more to reclaim its position at the top of the EU road safety league."
Road Safety Minister Stephen Ladyman said Britain has some of the safest roads in the world.
He said: "Indeed when assessed on the basis of fatalities per passenger kilometre, which I believe is the best indicator to use when drawing a comparison as it takes into account both the number of fatalities and level of passenger mobility, Britain is second only to Sweden.
"We have been congratulated by the ETSC for reducing overall speeds on urban roads and continually improving seatbelt wearing rates.
"Alongside this, we have already met our target of halving the number of children killed or seriously injured by 2010."
To compare the UK to Sweden is a nonsense. In Sweden there is 10% the population of the UK and hell of a lot more space! It's probably 20 times less dense. I love driving there. If Sweden had the same "density" as The UK there would be MANY more deaths per million than what they currently have.
srebbe64 said:
To compare the UK to Sweden is a nonsense. In Sweden there is 10% the population of the UK and hell of a lot more space! It's probably 20 times less dense. I love driving there. If Sweden had the same "density" as The UK there would be MANY more deaths per million than what they currently have.
Not sure if I understood right, but how does the accident *rate* compare between the two countrys.?I would expect a congested country to have more accidents but of less severity 'cos the speeds involved would be lower. I reckon I'd expect the death rate of sweden to be higher because of all that space - ie I believe that single vehicle accidents often tend to be more severe than collisions between vehicles.
Not the least bit surprised about these findings though. Speed cameras have been a complete and total disaster. I'd get rid of every one if I could and insist on proper policing instead.
FishFace said:
I'd be interested to see what measures France and Sweden have taken to get such decreases.
I'd also be interested to see what affect improved safety in cars has had, too.
France has cracked down on speeding big time in the past 2-3 years. Hidden traps, cameras everything. They empty your pockets at every opportunity. I'm surprissed there hasnt been an uprising to be honest. I guess all the farmers can't exceed the speed limit in their tractors. People now drive visibly more slowly in France, especially in villages/towns.I'd also be interested to see what affect improved safety in cars has had, too.
srebbe64 said:
To compare the UK to Sweden is a nonsense. In Sweden there is 10% the population of the UK and hell of a lot more space! It's probably 20 times less dense. I love driving there. If Sweden had the same "density" as The UK there would be MANY more deaths per million than what they currently have.
But using your argument then comparing with the NL should be the opposite, they have a very tightly squeezed together population centre where the majority of peope live (Utrecht/Rotterdam/Amersfoort triangle).Unfortunately, the NL is gatso central. Again they've made speeding a social disease. Hence all the slow Dutch drivers you have to negotiate out there.
Also, I suspect Belgium may have improved as there are more people who have taken a proper driving test each year (years ago it used to be a lot easier to pass your test in Belgium).
FishFace said:
I'd also be interested to see what affect improved safety in cars has had, too.
Yes, this could prove interesting, average cars become more sophisticated and powerful reducing your impression of speed, and increased safety (ABS, TC, Airbags etc) make you feel more secure, so you might travel faster, so you will probably travel faster but survive more accidents?It depends on how it's measured really, if it's measured as fatals or hospital attendances (for ins claims)
Targarama said:
FishFace said:
I'd be interested to see what measures France and Sweden have taken to get such decreases.
I'd also be interested to see what affect improved safety in cars has had, too.
France has cracked down on speeding big time in the past 2-3 years. Hidden traps, cameras everything. They empty your pockets at every opportunity. I'm surprissed there hasnt been an uprising to be honest. I guess all the farmers can't exceed the speed limit in their tractors. People now drive visibly more slowly in France, especially in villages/towns.I'd also be interested to see what affect improved safety in cars has had, too.
50km/h speed limits are rigorously enforced in urban areas, particularly at the edges (the speed limit starts at the sign giving the town name). The main difference is that the speed traps are manned by police who pull you over, bollock you and fine you immediately - as my friend found out last week!!
Comparing the rate at which, say, France is improving relative to the UK's rate is virtually meaningless. The rates at which you improve depends to a lrage extent on how badly you're doing to start with. Given that France's accident rate is still worse than ours, you'd expect them to be able to improve more quickly.
Comparing our performance (i.e. the absolute level of risk) to that of other countries is no bad thing if it is done intelligently, i.e. with due regard to the geographical and population differences. I would guess that Sweden and Scotland probably have similar population distributions, so that might be a reasonable comparisson, but Sweden has very much harsher winters with very short days and then very long days in the summer. It is quite normal for Swedes to swap between studded winter tyres and normal road tyres through the seasons and a fair number of crashes are caused by driving into elk. I'm sure we can learn something by looking at the measures the Swedes take and how effective they are, but simplistic comparissons are not likely to be very useful.
It also seems daft to assume that the UK ought to aspire to be the safest in Europe ... the only sensible ambition is for us to be as safe as it is reasonably possible to be; who cares what the neighbours are doing?
Comparing our performance (i.e. the absolute level of risk) to that of other countries is no bad thing if it is done intelligently, i.e. with due regard to the geographical and population differences. I would guess that Sweden and Scotland probably have similar population distributions, so that might be a reasonable comparisson, but Sweden has very much harsher winters with very short days and then very long days in the summer. It is quite normal for Swedes to swap between studded winter tyres and normal road tyres through the seasons and a fair number of crashes are caused by driving into elk. I'm sure we can learn something by looking at the measures the Swedes take and how effective they are, but simplistic comparissons are not likely to be very useful.
It also seems daft to assume that the UK ought to aspire to be the safest in Europe ... the only sensible ambition is for us to be as safe as it is reasonably possible to be; who cares what the neighbours are doing?
catso said:
The UK no longer has the safest roads in Europe, according to a new report....
"We used to claim that we had the safest roads in Europe. That claim is no longer matched in reality. The UK clearly needs to do much more to reclaim its position at the top of the EU road safety league."
Road Safety Minister Stephen Ladyman said Britain has some of the safest roads in the world.
He said: "Indeed when assessed on the basis of fatalities per passenger kilometre... Britain is second only to Sweden.
Report: Britain is not top in road safety in Europe"We used to claim that we had the safest roads in Europe. That claim is no longer matched in reality. The UK clearly needs to do much more to reclaim its position at the top of the EU road safety league."
Road Safety Minister Stephen Ladyman said Britain has some of the safest roads in the world.
He said: "Indeed when assessed on the basis of fatalities per passenger kilometre... Britain is second only to Sweden.
Ladyman: Not true, Britain is second to Sweden
QED
I don't like the sound of "innovative solutions" though.
I hate it when there are two parallel threads on the same subject, apologies for cross posting what I said over there was,
I do a lot of miles in Scandinavia, one way or another.
Sweden is cited as much safer roads per million of population and having made big improvements.
Some general observations.
Sweden population density is very low compared to UK. Likewise the roads have a low traffic density. It's possible to drive for extended times at night on main beam simply because there is no other traffic. Likewise cruise control can be engaged for long periods and not disengaged simply because there is nobody about.
On the other hand the adverse weather must have a negative effect, so all in all I'm not sure to what extent the two countries are directly comparable.
What is noticeable is the different attitude to road safety from the authorities.
eg Speed limits are by and large quite similar to UK, Sweden is in the process of reviewing the limits and actually is going to raise them.
Re. Blackspots or roads with high collision rates, the attitude is to engineer the problem out. eg SC road with high risk due to inappropriate overtaking then they build the EU project 2+1 DC with alternating central reserve. This would be a perfect solution for the infamous Stocksbridge bypass in S Yorks for example.
If the engineering solution involves a bypass or a new motorway then, blood and stomach pills, they build it. They do have the benefit of land and density of development on their side admittedly.
Yes they have scameras, not many mobiles though I watched a major operation a few weeks back on the motorway out from Stockholm towards the archipelago which was nicely positioned just after a change in the limit from 110 to 90. However they were not nabbing the 110'ers who had just failed to peg back to the lower limit, but those who were well illegal at 140 plus, and not that safe actually considering traffic density and hazards. But essentially, at least as I see it, there is not the out and out war on the motorist that there is here.
Just to repeat, if the limit is wroong and too low, they have the balls to say so and up the limit.
However I do note an increase in the lentilist speed kills lobby creeping into their media.
FiF
I do a lot of miles in Scandinavia, one way or another.
Sweden is cited as much safer roads per million of population and having made big improvements.
Some general observations.
Sweden population density is very low compared to UK. Likewise the roads have a low traffic density. It's possible to drive for extended times at night on main beam simply because there is no other traffic. Likewise cruise control can be engaged for long periods and not disengaged simply because there is nobody about.
On the other hand the adverse weather must have a negative effect, so all in all I'm not sure to what extent the two countries are directly comparable.
What is noticeable is the different attitude to road safety from the authorities.
eg Speed limits are by and large quite similar to UK, Sweden is in the process of reviewing the limits and actually is going to raise them.
Re. Blackspots or roads with high collision rates, the attitude is to engineer the problem out. eg SC road with high risk due to inappropriate overtaking then they build the EU project 2+1 DC with alternating central reserve. This would be a perfect solution for the infamous Stocksbridge bypass in S Yorks for example.
If the engineering solution involves a bypass or a new motorway then, blood and stomach pills, they build it. They do have the benefit of land and density of development on their side admittedly.
Yes they have scameras, not many mobiles though I watched a major operation a few weeks back on the motorway out from Stockholm towards the archipelago which was nicely positioned just after a change in the limit from 110 to 90. However they were not nabbing the 110'ers who had just failed to peg back to the lower limit, but those who were well illegal at 140 plus, and not that safe actually considering traffic density and hazards. But essentially, at least as I see it, there is not the out and out war on the motorist that there is here.
Just to repeat, if the limit is wroong and too low, they have the balls to say so and up the limit.
However I do note an increase in the lentilist speed kills lobby creeping into their media.
FiF
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/new...
This article has a small chart showing comparitive numbers of cameras to accidents per capita, sort of thing like.
I think it shows that the more the cameras, the more the accidents, though I think we know that already.
This article has a small chart showing comparitive numbers of cameras to accidents per capita, sort of thing like.
I think it shows that the more the cameras, the more the accidents, though I think we know that already.
Heebeegeetee said:
I think it shows that the more the cameras, the more the accidents, though I think we know that already.
I think it shows that the UK has the most cameras and the third best safety record. Only the sparsely populated Nordic countries are better, the Netherlands also have lots of cameras. The other countries that have fewer cameras have worse death rates. Interesting stuff.
spnracing said:
Heebeegeetee said:
I think it shows that the more the cameras, the more the accidents, though I think we know that already.
I think it shows that the UK has the most cameras and the third best safety record. Only the sparsely populated Nordic countries are better, the Netherlands also have lots of cameras. The other countries that have fewer cameras have worse death rates. Interesting stuff.
Heebeegeetee said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/new...
This article has a small chart showing comparitive numbers of cameras to accidents per capita, sort of thing like.
I think it shows that the more the cameras, the more the accidents, though I think we know that already.
Some super responses to this Daily Mail article:This article has a small chart showing comparitive numbers of cameras to accidents per capita, sort of thing like.
I think it shows that the more the cameras, the more the accidents, though I think we know that already.
Don Graham said:
We need more, in our villages. The speed limit seems only to apply to 'someone else' less 'important' than the speeder, who usually has a 'phone firmly clamped to the ear. If I had my way, they would not only be fined, but lose their car and phone to the crusher. This would greatly reduce the quantity of 4x4s around here, which usually only go off road to park on the pavement at school in/out time.
Bob Roberts said:
Britain's busy roads are helping fuel our booming economy. Comparing our roads with those of Sweden and Norway are unhelpful. Cameras help reduce road deaths - child deaths especially. As a driver I welcome speed cameras. It's easy - you see a camera, you reduce your speed. Unfortunately some drivers are too lazy to do even that.
However, there's some thoughtful ones as well:Brian Edmonds said:
Forward facing cameras target taxed and insured motorcars, whereas the more dangerous vehicles such as those driven by intoxicated drivers, the uninsured and motorbikes are ignored. As long as the speed camera is used as an ineffective substitute for traffic policing, the inherent injustice dispensed by the camera becomes another motoring tax rather than a positive contribution to road safety.
John said:
They won't change people's attitudes to driving by putting revenue earning cameras everywhere. The cameras are understandably perceived as a cynical way of extracting huge sums of money from drivers, albeit speeding ones, rather than a genuine effort to improve safety.
I've been a driving instructor for 20 years, and I can assure you that most people, despite all our efforts to train, educate, warn, and motivate, simply do not take the whole business of driving a car seriously enough, until they have an accident themselves. Personally I don't think we'll ever change people's attitudes.
I've been a driving instructor for 20 years, and I can assure you that most people, despite all our efforts to train, educate, warn, and motivate, simply do not take the whole business of driving a car seriously enough, until they have an accident themselves. Personally I don't think we'll ever change people's attitudes.
Frank said:
Get the untaxed uninsured and disqualified drivers off the road. Speed cameras have their place, but they can't stop drunks driving.
If only the government respected the views of the population more, we might have laws based on consent rather than imposition of nanny knows best.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff