Driving with 'no insurance' question
Discussion
Morning all. I've just been woken by my son who's had his car impounded as it appears to the Police he has no insurance. Now I know he does 'cos I pay it!!! However, I think I've figured what has happened and unfortunately technically I think the Police are right!!
A while ago a personalised plate was put on the car, DVLA and co. all informed tax done, new MOT in that plate but...... did the insurance company make the change. Can't be sure as they aren't contactable till Monday.
My question is what should my son expect the police to do when he goes to the Police Station with his documents?? Obviously the insurance certificate will be in the original plate but he has all the legal change documents. I suppose as he has not informed the insurance company of the plate change he is technically uninsured??
Any advice as to the best way to handle this would be greatfully received.
An irritated Dad!!!
A while ago a personalised plate was put on the car, DVLA and co. all informed tax done, new MOT in that plate but...... did the insurance company make the change. Can't be sure as they aren't contactable till Monday.
My question is what should my son expect the police to do when he goes to the Police Station with his documents?? Obviously the insurance certificate will be in the original plate but he has all the legal change documents. I suppose as he has not informed the insurance company of the plate change he is technically uninsured??
Any advice as to the best way to handle this would be greatfully received.
An irritated Dad!!!
Edited by pbsaxman on Monday 18th June 10:57
Edited by pbsaxman on Monday 18th June 10:59
So prodigal son driving car ABC 123 could only produce a Cert/Policy for a vehicle 345XYG which obviously does not cover him and that would show on the Insurance database they use.
So vehicle siezed and son would be given a Notice of Seizure with I presume has much information within it.
Car recovered to Police pound where it will remain for 14 days before any further action relating to its disposal/fate by them.
Now p.d.q. son will have to contact his Insurance company and explain and get the correct VRM put on the Certificate. They may allow the date of validity to run from issue and pre seizure which would assist greatly. If they won't then they may be prepared to issue a letter to state that as far as they are concerned at the time of the seizure they were prepared to consider themselves at risk ( i.e. son insured)
Clutching correct Certificate/Letter and Notice of Seizure, son attends designated Police Station mentioned to reclaim car and produces docs. Plod may well take nfa re using without Insurance (dependant on what Ins Co states) but may well have to pay £105 recovery charge and £12 per day storage which kicks in after first 24 hours.
As there could be a delay in getting proof from Ins Co consider a visit today to Plod with all supporting docs in his possession and explain fully the question that vehicle is Insured rests with proof from Ins.Co which will not be forthcoming for some time and get them to note the visit.
When the matter is sorted and IF the Insurance Co give evidence that the vehicle was Insured at time of seizure then consider lodging an appeal through Chief Constable of force involved to recover recovery and storage fees. Not automatic for all this as fault lies with son
failing to inform Insurance Co.
dvd
So vehicle siezed and son would be given a Notice of Seizure with I presume has much information within it.
Car recovered to Police pound where it will remain for 14 days before any further action relating to its disposal/fate by them.
Now p.d.q. son will have to contact his Insurance company and explain and get the correct VRM put on the Certificate. They may allow the date of validity to run from issue and pre seizure which would assist greatly. If they won't then they may be prepared to issue a letter to state that as far as they are concerned at the time of the seizure they were prepared to consider themselves at risk ( i.e. son insured)
Clutching correct Certificate/Letter and Notice of Seizure, son attends designated Police Station mentioned to reclaim car and produces docs. Plod may well take nfa re using without Insurance (dependant on what Ins Co states) but may well have to pay £105 recovery charge and £12 per day storage which kicks in after first 24 hours.
As there could be a delay in getting proof from Ins Co consider a visit today to Plod with all supporting docs in his possession and explain fully the question that vehicle is Insured rests with proof from Ins.Co which will not be forthcoming for some time and get them to note the visit.
When the matter is sorted and IF the Insurance Co give evidence that the vehicle was Insured at time of seizure then consider lodging an appeal through Chief Constable of force involved to recover recovery and storage fees. Not automatic for all this as fault lies with son
failing to inform Insurance Co.
dvd
I have something similar a couple of years ago (car wasnt impounded though)
I was stopped by the old bill as I pulled up outside my house on a "routine stop" (yeah right!)
I was driving an old golf gti so I prob look like a "likely target" anyway I had managed to stuff up the reg number beautifully, I have incremented one letter or number when filling in the form online which amazingly was for another golf gti of similar age owned my a mr kwok (prob not exact name).
any how, as it happens I was burgled about 3 days prior to this and along with mny laptop all my car docs went missing. the Police man that stopped me were completly unsympathetic to this even though I was able to show them the finger print crap that was still all over my front door.
They reckoned I had no insurance as I couldnt produce a cert, I rang insurance co. the next day to ask for a duplicate cert (at first they were wobbly about one as I mentioned the police needed it, might be best to omit this bit when you speak to them??) anyway got the doc back and then saw the error with the reg number, I got it corrected and a new doc was sent out, I took both to the desk plod along with my producer and he was quite happy as it was just a type-o.
so essentially I had the wrong VRM on my policy (as your son did) and seemed to get away with it.
if you change the reg with your insurers immediatly, have the paperwork to prove the reg change / private plate and the new docs along with old docs proving insurance on both reg's I honestly cant see them having a problem with that when you take it all along to the station.
unless of couse you son gave them a mouthfull when his car was taken from him (couldnt blame him if he did!) and they have decided to nail him whatever way they can....
I was stopped by the old bill as I pulled up outside my house on a "routine stop" (yeah right!)
I was driving an old golf gti so I prob look like a "likely target" anyway I had managed to stuff up the reg number beautifully, I have incremented one letter or number when filling in the form online which amazingly was for another golf gti of similar age owned my a mr kwok (prob not exact name).
any how, as it happens I was burgled about 3 days prior to this and along with mny laptop all my car docs went missing. the Police man that stopped me were completly unsympathetic to this even though I was able to show them the finger print crap that was still all over my front door.
They reckoned I had no insurance as I couldnt produce a cert, I rang insurance co. the next day to ask for a duplicate cert (at first they were wobbly about one as I mentioned the police needed it, might be best to omit this bit when you speak to them??) anyway got the doc back and then saw the error with the reg number, I got it corrected and a new doc was sent out, I took both to the desk plod along with my producer and he was quite happy as it was just a type-o.
so essentially I had the wrong VRM on my policy (as your son did) and seemed to get away with it.
if you change the reg with your insurers immediatly, have the paperwork to prove the reg change / private plate and the new docs along with old docs proving insurance on both reg's I honestly cant see them having a problem with that when you take it all along to the station.
unless of couse you son gave them a mouthfull when his car was taken from him (couldnt blame him if he did!) and they have decided to nail him whatever way they can....
Edited by Kinky on Wednesday 20th June 02:52
All old mot's will have the vin number for the car he is driving and they will show the old reg number and the last one you have when it was changed will have been stamped by the dvla with cherished transfer and the new reg.Hopefully if you take all these and the new certificate to the police station they will accept it was a genuine mistake as you were insured on that car its just you forgot about the plate change.
Dwight VanDriver said:
So prodigal son driving car ABC 123 could only produce a Cert/Policy for a vehicle 345XYG which obviously does not cover him and that would show on the Insurance database they use.
So vehicle siezed and son would be given a Notice of Seizure with I presume has much information within it.
Car recovered to Police pound where it will remain for 14 days before any further action relating to its disposal/fate by them.
Now p.d.q. son will have to contact his Insurance company and explain and get the correct VRM put on the Certificate. They may allow the date of validity to run from issue and pre seizure which would assist greatly. If they won't then they may be prepared to issue a letter to state that as far as they are concerned at the time of the seizure they were prepared to consider themselves at risk ( i.e. son insured)
Clutching correct Certificate/Letter and Notice of Seizure, son attends designated Police Station mentioned to reclaim car and produces docs. Plod may well take nfa re using without Insurance (dependant on what Ins Co states) but may well have to pay £105 recovery charge and £12 per day storage which kicks in after first 24 hours.
As there could be a delay in getting proof from Ins Co consider a visit today to Plod with all supporting docs in his possession and explain fully the question that vehicle is Insured rests with proof from Ins.Co which will not be forthcoming for some time and get them to note the visit.
When the matter is sorted and IF the Insurance Co give evidence that the vehicle was Insured at time of seizure then consider lodging an appeal through Chief Constable of force involved to recover recovery and storage fees. Not automatic for all this as fault lies with son
failing to inform Insurance Co.
dvd
Yeh that pretty much describes it. The insurance cost goes out of his bank account each month by DD so I may take the bank statement as well ( I very kindly do a DD for same cost to him!! Such a generous Dad!!)So vehicle siezed and son would be given a Notice of Seizure with I presume has much information within it.
Car recovered to Police pound where it will remain for 14 days before any further action relating to its disposal/fate by them.
Now p.d.q. son will have to contact his Insurance company and explain and get the correct VRM put on the Certificate. They may allow the date of validity to run from issue and pre seizure which would assist greatly. If they won't then they may be prepared to issue a letter to state that as far as they are concerned at the time of the seizure they were prepared to consider themselves at risk ( i.e. son insured)
Clutching correct Certificate/Letter and Notice of Seizure, son attends designated Police Station mentioned to reclaim car and produces docs. Plod may well take nfa re using without Insurance (dependant on what Ins Co states) but may well have to pay £105 recovery charge and £12 per day storage which kicks in after first 24 hours.
As there could be a delay in getting proof from Ins Co consider a visit today to Plod with all supporting docs in his possession and explain fully the question that vehicle is Insured rests with proof from Ins.Co which will not be forthcoming for some time and get them to note the visit.
When the matter is sorted and IF the Insurance Co give evidence that the vehicle was Insured at time of seizure then consider lodging an appeal through Chief Constable of force involved to recover recovery and storage fees. Not automatic for all this as fault lies with son
failing to inform Insurance Co.
dvd
The annoying thing is the car has etched windows still in the old number but cos he knew he WAS insured he didn't even think of this.
Also he's blaming me
'cos he was returning to his girlfriends after work (0030hrs) to collect my Fathers Day present that he had accidentally left there so otherwise he'd have been at home in bed by the time he was stopped!!Insurance renewal due imminently so it would have been spotted and all in the garden would have been rosy!!!!!
Thanks for the info though it was great and was pretty much as I thought but it's always good to get it confirmed. Impounded car not the immediate problem as in reality the Police actually did what I would want them to do in removing an uninsured car from the road. Just unfortunate that it was sort of insured just incorrectly. Hope the insurance company are understanding and will back date the forms!!
P
Just as a quick update this is now all resolved.
Insurance company had been notified last October but had not actioned notification.
We should have spotted that they hadn't sent a new cert but didn't.
Insco now updated, Police happy, son can now be driven the 70 minutes to where they sent the car, instead of to the local impound where everyone including the local Police and the impounders thought it should have gone, to pay his money to get his P&J back.
I would take DVD's advice and complain but then I'd probably find myself being pulled every time I went near a certain East Yorks town
Thanks to all who posted for your advice
Peter
Insurance company had been notified last October but had not actioned notification.
We should have spotted that they hadn't sent a new cert but didn't.
Insco now updated, Police happy, son can now be driven the 70 minutes to where they sent the car, instead of to the local impound where everyone including the local Police and the impounders thought it should have gone, to pay his money to get his P&J back.
I would take DVD's advice and complain but then I'd probably find myself being pulled every time I went near a certain East Yorks town
Thanks to all who posted for your advice
Peter
davido140 said:
I was driving an old golf gti so I prob look like a "likely target" anyway I had managed to stuff up the reg number beautifully, I have incremented one letter or number when filling in the form online which amazingly was for another golf gti of similar age owned my a mr kwok (prob not exact name).
any how, as it happens I was burgled about 3 days prior to this and along with mny laptop all my car docs went missing. the nob heads that stopped me were completly unsympathetic to this even though I was able to show them the finger print crap that was still all over my front door.
so essentially I had the wrong VRM on my policy (as your son did) and seemed to get away with it.
Essentially, your vehicle was checked and found not to be covered by insurance!any how, as it happens I was burgled about 3 days prior to this and along with mny laptop all my car docs went missing. the nob heads that stopped me were completly unsympathetic to this even though I was able to show them the finger print crap that was still all over my front door.
so essentially I had the wrong VRM on my policy (as your son did) and seemed to get away with it.
The fault of this was not
1. The insurance company
2. The police officers that stopped you
I suggest there was only one nobhead in this equation
Edited by Mg6b on Monday 18th June 11:49
TPS said:
Good news.However if the insurance co have said they were to blame and had been informed then i would be blaming them and demanding they pay the recovery bill.They should have at the very least updated the database so that it showed up as being insured.
Will be pursuing that line but not hopeful of any real progress. At least he gets the car back without a major fine or points. Thats something to be happy about.Cheers
Peter
TPS said:
Good news.However if the insurance co have said they were to blame and had been informed then i would be blaming them and demanding they pay the recovery bill.They should have at the very least updated the database so that it showed up as being insured.
It's a bit worrying really isn't it when you think of what could be lost by "computer error".........(insurance,MOT, VED,fingerprint,DNA etc,etc....)Peter
Follow that suggestion of trying to get the Insurance Company to divvy up the cost of recovery fee and storage if Plod applies it. Failing that then I would still try an appeal to head Plod. £105 plus is not a sum I would write off without a fight but then you East Riding types are loaded.
Dvd
N Riding
Follow that suggestion of trying to get the Insurance Company to divvy up the cost of recovery fee and storage if Plod applies it. Failing that then I would still try an appeal to head Plod. £105 plus is not a sum I would write off without a fight but then you East Riding types are loaded.
Dvd
N Riding
esselte said:
TPS said:
Good news.However if the insurance co have said they were to blame and had been informed then i would be blaming them and demanding they pay the recovery bill.They should have at the very least updated the database so that it showed up as being insured.
It's a bit worrying really isn't it when you think of what could be lost by "computer error".........(insurance,MOT, VED,fingerprint,DNA etc,etc....)It's a relevant question ... I bought my car with a cherished plate on it, which the previous owner wanted to keep. I agreed that it should go back to him when I agreed to buy it, as long as he paid all costs and did all the necessary admin.
He did all this, and had new plates made up, but spent 12 days getting 'round to telling me that my car was no longer ABC123 but was now XYZ789 ... so I had been driving around on the wrong numberplates for 12 days!
Thankfully nothing came of it and all was well, but it can happen fairly easily.
Oli.
He did all this, and had new plates made up, but spent 12 days getting 'round to telling me that my car was no longer ABC123 but was now XYZ789 ... so I had been driving around on the wrong numberplates for 12 days!
Thankfully nothing came of it and all was well, but it can happen fairly easily.
Oli.
ipsg.glf said:
pbsaxman said:
I would take DVD's advice and complain but then I'd probably find myself being pulled every time I went near a certain East Yorks town
Peter
Complain to whom and for what? What "wrong" did they do?Peter
I speak as I find
Dwight VanDriver said:
Peter
Follow that suggestion of trying to get the Insurance Company to divvy up the cost of recovery fee and storage if Plod applies it. Failing that then I would still try an appeal to head Plod. £105 plus is not a sum I would write off without a fight but then you East Riding types are loaded.
Dvd
N Riding
I wish........ remember I'm retired now and spend my pension feeding my Nobles love of V Power Follow that suggestion of trying to get the Insurance Company to divvy up the cost of recovery fee and storage if Plod applies it. Failing that then I would still try an appeal to head Plod. £105 plus is not a sum I would write off without a fight but then you East Riding types are loaded.
Dvd
N Riding
Police applied the charge as the vehicle had been impounded so someone had to pay for the time and effort it took to take the car so far away
You have no complaint against the police. you didn't have insurance cover for the vehicle under the numberplate that was "legally" attached to it, Fullstop!
So it was seized it under the law. rightly so!
BUT...........your son WAS infact insured for the vehicle, but under a different identity.(it's previous ID)
Now the people to blame for the problem arising are.
1) Your insurance company for not issuing a new certificate to you immediately you instructed them of the change of registration mark.
[** So if there is any expense in retrieving the vehicle back, you MUST put a claim into the insurance broker / company]
2) (to a slightly less extent, Yourselves, for not confirming receipt of said new insurance documentation.
Once again, The police are in no way responsible for you being in posession of the correct documentation or not, you are!
So it was seized it under the law. rightly so!
BUT...........your son WAS infact insured for the vehicle, but under a different identity.(it's previous ID)
Now the people to blame for the problem arising are.
1) Your insurance company for not issuing a new certificate to you immediately you instructed them of the change of registration mark.
[** So if there is any expense in retrieving the vehicle back, you MUST put a claim into the insurance broker / company]
2) (to a slightly less extent, Yourselves, for not confirming receipt of said new insurance documentation.
Once again, The police are in no way responsible for you being in posession of the correct documentation or not, you are!
Dwight VanDriver said:
>>>>>>>BUT...........your son WAS infact insured for the vehicle.<<<<<<
The power to seize demands that there is no Insurance in force so that done was illegal by Plod?.
dvd
As the insurance company had not updated the database though it would have shown up as being uninsured.Therefore it would have been legally removed by the police.The power to seize demands that there is no Insurance in force so that done was illegal by Plod?.
dvd
I blame the insurance company but can not see how the police are to blame.Had the driver said to them there and then,i think i know the problem it use to be registered as abc 123 but i put abc 345 on it.Then they could have checked and realised it was insured on that reg to that car (vin number,make,model etc) but it now had a different plate.However i can not see this mentioned by the op.
I am with DVD here
1. Power to seize applies to uninsured vehicle
2. Vehicle was insured
3. Based in incorret Database information Police form incorrect opinion that the seizure is lawful.
4. Police are wrong, seizure illegal (see (1) above).
There is an actionble cause against Police who SHOULD have waived all impound charges and apologised. They had no power to seize and any costs / expenses after that are not the concern of the innocent MOP.
If there is then a complaint about the incorrect database I do not believe that it is yours - the Chief Constable should be shouting at the insurance company as his guys apply blind faith (computer says "NO!" in a dodgy database.
1. Power to seize applies to uninsured vehicle
2. Vehicle was insured
3. Based in incorret Database information Police form incorrect opinion that the seizure is lawful.
4. Police are wrong, seizure illegal (see (1) above).
There is an actionble cause against Police who SHOULD have waived all impound charges and apologised. They had no power to seize and any costs / expenses after that are not the concern of the innocent MOP.
If there is then a complaint about the incorrect database I do not believe that it is yours - the Chief Constable should be shouting at the insurance company as his guys apply blind faith (computer says "NO!"
in a dodgy database.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff