Help please: plod, points and all that ...

[bobs_b]

Hello all

just been pulled over for "undue care and attention", coming out of a junction to join a london square bit spooked to find a plod car coming right up behind me on the square.

The junction is not blind, had a look and I came out not too fast, nor crawling, for that matter, dont think i did myself any favours saying "god you were going fast" to plod thou, Doh! (i know dumb, but i do that corner everyday and never had anyone up that quickly - i was shaken)

anyway threatened with magistrates court and 6 points...

18 years driving and no points until now, so the whole process is new to me.

anyway i am going to plead non-guilty and understand the recorded film will be made available at the court.

My question is.. can I request the recording beforehand to prepare my defence, how far back and forward do they record? knowing the corner well doesnt make sence to me where he came from, also i felt intimidated/threatened afterwards and want to know if any of this was recorded. do they record speed of the plod car?? anyother hints/tips appreciated (hire a lawyer?)... feeling shaken.

ps. cant help feeling if i had t1ts plods would have been ok, swines..

Edited by bobs_b on Monday 18th June 20:34

[wasted years]

Were you reported or just "threatended" that driving like that could result in court appearance? Was it a video equipped car?

[Towie]

bobs_b said:

just been pulled over for "undue care and attention",

No you were not.

You may have been pulled for driving WITHOUT DUE CARE AND ATTENTION.

Apologies, it`s a personal piss boiler.

[JustinP1]

wasted years said:

Were you reported or just "threatended" that driving like that could result in court appearance? Was it a video equipped car?

Agreed.

There are two sides to stories like this, one of them is that *perhaps* the poster has been a bit careless.

The other is that they have either had a very minor mishap or none at all, but have been the victim of pressure tactics and an ego boost from the officers involved.

These cases are winnable. Indeed if there is a video recording made of the situation AND you have been told that this would be used against you then you are indeed entitled to see this before court - it should provide you with your best defence.

However, I have an inkling that the reason you were told this is either to sh** you up (see the ego boost comment above) and/or that they really are warning you against going to court as it will come out that they have been very harsh and perhaps not a winnable case.

This is exactly what happened to me and ended up with me cross-examining and winning a case against 3 officers.

In your case, if there IS a video (I must admit that I do have a small doubt whether one exists) then this will either be your saving grace or your worst enemy, but at least the truth will come out.

The video will show where you were looking at the time and from that the court can ascertain if there was anything you can do. What MAY be shown is that the police car was coming around the bend at a speed faster then the speed limit and despite there being no faults in your observation, that it couldnt reasonably expected that any driver could have got intot he junction and out of the way quick enough.

You are right to fight if you honestly believe you are not guilty. Be warned though, it is sometimes a route which can be lengthy (you may not be in court for 6 months) and stressful.

Something you MUST do immediately is write down anything you can remember about the situation and the following conversation. This will be invaluable in court. Did you look left and right, or left, right and left again? Anything like that write it down in as much detail as you can rememeber as well as exactly the version of events when you were pulled over. You may be very surprised that when the officers statements come though that they will bear little resemblence to your conversation - and without your own notes made now you will have little defence.

[bobs_b]

many thanks,

he filled in all the forms so think it was more than just a tut tut. the car was video enabled - i saw the camera, and will ask to see the video and write everything down.

perhaps i was not a 100% perfect in my driving, but if you are paying 90% attention does that mean "without due care and attention"?? (boiling piss duly noted )

to be honest if i was in the wrong fair enough, just seems to me these kinds of thinks are about judgement and it allows the police too much discretion in applying the law, i appreciate these things are grey but have no faith in being treated fairly, i expect the magistrate will just side with the police.

funny thing is i was coming back from jury service, think i might go with "not-guilty" tomorrow!! (honestly i wont - just enjoying a moment of sinful pleasure).

Edited by bobs_b on Monday 18th June 21:11

[shuvitupya]

Were you officially cautioned or just told off for being a naughty boy?

[shuvitupya]

bobs_b said:

perhaps i was not a 100% perfect in my driving, but if you are paying 90% attention does that mean "without due care and attention"??

If you pull out of a junction causing another vehicle to take avoiding action, such as having to brake or swerve, that would be enough to be reported for DWDCA.

[bobs_b]

shuvitupya said:

bobs_b said:

perhaps i was not a 100% perfect in my driving, but if you are paying 90% attention does that mean "without due care and attention"??

If you pull out of a junction causing another vehicle to take avoiding action, such as having to brake or swerve, that would be enough to be reported for DWDCA.

what if the other car had itself come around a corner and was going quite fast?

i was joining a square so normally everyone goes reasonably slow, as per my first post its the first time i have had anyone "up me" so quickly at that corner (which i take everyday).

edited .. as still shaken and keep missing words!

Edited by bobs_b on Monday 18th June 21:23

[stander]

shuvitupya said:

bobs_b said:

perhaps i was not a 100% perfect in my driving, but if you are paying 90% attention does that mean "without due care and attention"??

If you pull out of a junction causing another vehicle to take avoiding action, such as having to brake or swerve, that would be enough to be reported for DWDCA.

shuv ... where do you get this from, soz just looking at highway code and cant see what it.

cheers, b
(ps. changed name to only policeman i respect )

[Tame Technician]

Shame you didn't hit them, then you would probably avoid the points and get a Driver Improvement Scheme course.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[JustinP1]

Tame Technician said:

Shame you didn't hit them, then you would probably avoid the points and get a Driver Improvement Scheme course.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Quite... and the exact point I made in that thread!

[JustinP1]

bobs_b said:

many thanks,

he filled in all the forms so think it was more than just a tut tut. the car was video enabled - i saw the camera, and will ask to see the video and write everything down.

perhaps i was not a 100% perfect in my driving, but if you are paying 90% attention does that mean "without due care and attention"?? (boiling piss duly noted )

to be honest if i was in the wrong fair enough, just seems to me these kinds of thinks are about judgement and it allows the police too much discretion in applying the law, i appreciate these things are grey but have no faith in being treated fairly, i expect the magistrate will just side with the police.

funny thing is i was coming back from jury service, think i might go with "not-guilty" tomorrow!! (honestly i wont - just enjoying a moment of sinful pleasure).

Edited by bobs_b on Monday 18th June 21:11

Don't wait for the video, write everything down now. Exactly what you did, what you said and what was said to you. Even things like your comment about how fast they were going is proof that you made your 'defence' at the earliest opportunity and have continued it through to court.

If you do get to see the video - the CPS may decide not to use it and go on the two officers statements - it will not be for some months probably, so don't wait for that!

[stander]

cheers will do, almost looking forward to my day in court. BiB acting in a ridiculous way IMO.

[Dwight VanDriver]

What were the signs at the junction?

Halt or Give Way?.

If the double dotted for a Give Way then it is an offence to cross if it causes a vehicle on the main road road to brake of reduce speed.

If you want the video then I doubt very much they will release ubntil such time as they have issued a summons, received your reply 'Not Guilty' and request for disclosure of all their evidence.

dvd

[7db]

Pretty poor form not to show you the driving there and then if he had a video. I would have asked to see it in the car, once he'd brought the subject up. One assumes not an option on a ticketable offence (stop line etc) otherwise would provide a much easier route for disposal.

Careless usually attracts 3-9 pts and a weeks pay, depending on seriousness. The threshold and number of driving descriptions which qualify is alarming low and wide - so no problem charging most average drivers with it if you look hard enough.

It will require plod to turn up in court and do paperwork, so must be reasonably serious in the mind of Plod. Most I know would settle for a quiet word and back to the doughnut store pile of burglary cases.

One thing that concerns me about the OPs post is the way the car appeared spookily. I know Hendon are working on it, but an invisible car that appears out of nowhere is still only in the development phase, and that suggests our OPs observation might not be up to scratch.

[J500ANT]

Dwight VanDriver said:

If the double dotted for a Give Way then it is an offence to cross if it causes a vehicle on the main road road to brake of reduce speed.

And that offence is? (out of interest)

[stander]

7db said:

One thing that concerns me about the OPs post is the way the car appeared spookily. I know Hendon are working on it, but an invisible car that appears out of nowhere is still only in the development phase, and that suggests our OPs observation might not be up to scratch.

Plod himself would have come around a corner, there are two roads that join the square just before my junction. spooked because i thought he was going fast and came right upto the back of me before switching on the flashing lights.