Now it's Personal
Discussion
Both myself and my wife were brought up in the town of Paisley, a town catapulted to worldwide fame last week in the most undesirable of circumstances. Contrary to the typically careless claims of a BBC reporter, Glasgow Airport is not, despite its name, in Glasgow, but Paisley; a fact that sat ill with Paisley folks at the time of naming. Glasgow got all the fame and business, Paisley got the traffic problems!
Paisley is a deeply historic town with cultural associations going back many centuries, although sadly when you look at it now it is difficult to believe it is the same town it was even thirty years ago. It is a town devoid of social and economic spirit; a town devastated by a combination of the closure of traditional manufacturing industries in Scotland and the appalling management of what could arguably be described as the worst Council in the whole British Isles.
I had to shake my head as I listened to the words of the young BBC reporter yet again getting it completely wrong by stating that "Scotland is a country that is no stranger to terrorism". I suggest she gets educated or finds another job. Her reference was to Lockerbie, an event that was not of course an attack on Scotland. It was an attack directly on the USA via the then epitome of American affluence, PanAm. The bomb that destroyed their 747 was intended to detonate over the sea but, by a horrific quirk of fate did so in the flight corridor over Scotland, changing the lives of the people of Lockerbie for all time.
The reality in the world wide scheme of things is that there has never been a single terrorist attack on Scotland, not even a hint or suggestion that any groups, no matter how disgruntled they were at the “capitalists” or the British Government, would attack our beautiful land.
Even at the height of the Irish conflict, there was absolutely no aggression displayed against us. There are doubtless many and varied reasons for this, but high on the list of these I am certain is the perception that the Scottish people in the past had their fair share of oppression and brutality and therefore are viewed as empathetic to just causes; although I would hasten to add that our abhorrence of terrorism is at least equal to that of any other thinking nation.
Now, this has all changed, and there is a feeling of desperate sadness, of the closure of an era and the opening of a much more sinister, shadowy existence. An existence of mistrust and the realisation of what it means to invite people of an overtly different society and culture into your country and the risks in doing so without control, without ground rules. The Scots are known world wide for their open friendliness and hospitality, and I cannot but feel that this was used to the advantage of those who would attempt to ruin our society; used to infiltrate the very heart of caring in our country, the hospitals.
Consider this: what manner of individual is it that, with suitably high intelligence, would study for most likely seven years, take a Hippocratic oath to preserve and save life and then manufacture a mobile bomb from a motor vehicle, pour petrol over himself and attempt to destroy an airport in what has become his home town. And worse still, implicate numerous other, like minded, deluded fools, ALL of whom are doctors!
Consider this: what we have here is not a conflict; it is not terrorism born from a desire to be free from an oppressive regime, or any other ideal that, in desperation becomes violent in its movement. This is about the most extreme, corrupted, twisted form of religion imaginable.
How powerful this must be when it can take men of such education and ability and compel them to carry out such acts in a totally premeditated fashion, with the promise of unlimited rewards in paradise. But we are missing this; it is not politically correct to attack religion. It is seen as a removal of rights of the individual to worship in the manner they choose. How do we then deal with a religion that can fuel behaviour so extreme?
Well comparatively speaking we do not have kilted, Scottish Protestants running through Marks and Spencers in Argyll Street with plastic strapped to their chest screaming, “John Knox is Great!” and then pushing the button. Nor is the same act committed by Luigi who runs the chippie on a Paisley street corner, although in his case he would probably be heard to praise the Pope instead before detonation. Indeed I could also go on about Manny, the Jewish tailor who has been dressing Glasgow men in real style for years without feeling that because of the horrors of Palestine he needs to self destruct taking some of his fellow Scots with him; I think by now you get the picture.
I also think I can speak for my fellow Scots when I say that if you are of the mind of any of the “doctors” so intent on these acts, you are most definitely not welcome in our country.
We do not want, nor will we tolerate, your brand of religion. This to me was confirmed by the news images of the brave off-duty copper hosing down the burning terrorist and getting burnt himself: beside him a Glasgow man looking on stated simply, “Let the bastard burn!”
Sound advice indeed.
We have to be forever grateful to the fortitude and superb professionalism of Strathclyde Police, who had the whole affair under control and the perpetrators and other suspects not only in Scotland but Australia also, under lock and key in just a few days. They did this without a single loss of life or serious injury to the public. That to me is what true policing is about; protecting life and apprehending those who would harm others.
We managed to rid Scotland of our Inquisitors and witch burners centuries ago: we have no need for a return to this kind of wickedness in the name of religion.
Paisley is a deeply historic town with cultural associations going back many centuries, although sadly when you look at it now it is difficult to believe it is the same town it was even thirty years ago. It is a town devoid of social and economic spirit; a town devastated by a combination of the closure of traditional manufacturing industries in Scotland and the appalling management of what could arguably be described as the worst Council in the whole British Isles.
I had to shake my head as I listened to the words of the young BBC reporter yet again getting it completely wrong by stating that "Scotland is a country that is no stranger to terrorism". I suggest she gets educated or finds another job. Her reference was to Lockerbie, an event that was not of course an attack on Scotland. It was an attack directly on the USA via the then epitome of American affluence, PanAm. The bomb that destroyed their 747 was intended to detonate over the sea but, by a horrific quirk of fate did so in the flight corridor over Scotland, changing the lives of the people of Lockerbie for all time.
The reality in the world wide scheme of things is that there has never been a single terrorist attack on Scotland, not even a hint or suggestion that any groups, no matter how disgruntled they were at the “capitalists” or the British Government, would attack our beautiful land.
Even at the height of the Irish conflict, there was absolutely no aggression displayed against us. There are doubtless many and varied reasons for this, but high on the list of these I am certain is the perception that the Scottish people in the past had their fair share of oppression and brutality and therefore are viewed as empathetic to just causes; although I would hasten to add that our abhorrence of terrorism is at least equal to that of any other thinking nation.
Now, this has all changed, and there is a feeling of desperate sadness, of the closure of an era and the opening of a much more sinister, shadowy existence. An existence of mistrust and the realisation of what it means to invite people of an overtly different society and culture into your country and the risks in doing so without control, without ground rules. The Scots are known world wide for their open friendliness and hospitality, and I cannot but feel that this was used to the advantage of those who would attempt to ruin our society; used to infiltrate the very heart of caring in our country, the hospitals.
Consider this: what manner of individual is it that, with suitably high intelligence, would study for most likely seven years, take a Hippocratic oath to preserve and save life and then manufacture a mobile bomb from a motor vehicle, pour petrol over himself and attempt to destroy an airport in what has become his home town. And worse still, implicate numerous other, like minded, deluded fools, ALL of whom are doctors!
Consider this: what we have here is not a conflict; it is not terrorism born from a desire to be free from an oppressive regime, or any other ideal that, in desperation becomes violent in its movement. This is about the most extreme, corrupted, twisted form of religion imaginable.
How powerful this must be when it can take men of such education and ability and compel them to carry out such acts in a totally premeditated fashion, with the promise of unlimited rewards in paradise. But we are missing this; it is not politically correct to attack religion. It is seen as a removal of rights of the individual to worship in the manner they choose. How do we then deal with a religion that can fuel behaviour so extreme?
Well comparatively speaking we do not have kilted, Scottish Protestants running through Marks and Spencers in Argyll Street with plastic strapped to their chest screaming, “John Knox is Great!” and then pushing the button. Nor is the same act committed by Luigi who runs the chippie on a Paisley street corner, although in his case he would probably be heard to praise the Pope instead before detonation. Indeed I could also go on about Manny, the Jewish tailor who has been dressing Glasgow men in real style for years without feeling that because of the horrors of Palestine he needs to self destruct taking some of his fellow Scots with him; I think by now you get the picture.
I also think I can speak for my fellow Scots when I say that if you are of the mind of any of the “doctors” so intent on these acts, you are most definitely not welcome in our country.
We do not want, nor will we tolerate, your brand of religion. This to me was confirmed by the news images of the brave off-duty copper hosing down the burning terrorist and getting burnt himself: beside him a Glasgow man looking on stated simply, “Let the bastard burn!”
Sound advice indeed.
We have to be forever grateful to the fortitude and superb professionalism of Strathclyde Police, who had the whole affair under control and the perpetrators and other suspects not only in Scotland but Australia also, under lock and key in just a few days. They did this without a single loss of life or serious injury to the public. That to me is what true policing is about; protecting life and apprehending those who would harm others.
We managed to rid Scotland of our Inquisitors and witch burners centuries ago: we have no need for a return to this kind of wickedness in the name of religion.
jith said:
Both myself and my wife were brought up in the town of Paisley, a town catapulted to worldwide fame last week in the most undesirable of circumstances. Contrary to the typically careless claims of a BBC reporter, Glasgow Airport is not, despite its name, in Glasgow, but Paisley; a fact that sat ill with Paisley folks at the time of naming. Glasgow got all the fame and business, Paisley got the traffic problems!
Paisley is a deeply historic town with cultural associations going back many centuries, although sadly when you look at it now it is difficult to believe it is the same town it was even thirty years ago. It is a town devoid of social and economic spirit; a town devastated by a combination of the closure of traditional manufacturing industries in Scotland and the appalling management of what could arguably be described as the worst Council in the whole British Isles.
I had to shake my head as I listened to the words of the young BBC reporter yet again getting it completely wrong by stating that "Scotland is a country that is no stranger to terrorism". I suggest she gets educated or finds another job. Her reference was to Lockerbie, an event that was not of course an attack on Scotland. It was an attack directly on the USA via the then epitome of American affluence, PanAm. The bomb that destroyed their 747 was intended to detonate over the sea but, by a horrific quirk of fate did so in the flight corridor over Scotland, changing the lives of the people of Lockerbie for all time.
The reality in the world wide scheme of things is that there has never been a single terrorist attack on Scotland, not even a hint or suggestion that any groups, no matter how disgruntled they were at the “capitalists” or the British Government, would attack our beautiful land.
Even at the height of the Irish conflict, there was absolutely no aggression displayed against us. There are doubtless many and varied reasons for this, but high on the list of these I am certain is the perception that the Scottish people in the past had their fair share of oppression and brutality and therefore are viewed as empathetic to just causes; although I would hasten to add that our abhorrence of terrorism is at least equal to that of any other thinking nation.
Now, this has all changed, and there is a feeling of desperate sadness, of the closure of an era and the opening of a much more sinister, shadowy existence. An existence of mistrust and the realisation of what it means to invite people of an overtly different society and culture into your country and the risks in doing so without control, without ground rules. The Scots are known world wide for their open friendliness and hospitality, and I cannot but feel that this was used to the advantage of those who would attempt to ruin our society; used to infiltrate the very heart of caring in our country, the hospitals.
Consider this: what manner of individual is it that, with suitably high intelligence, would study for most likely seven years, take a Hippocratic oath to preserve and save life and then manufacture a mobile bomb from a motor vehicle, pour petrol over himself and attempt to destroy an airport in what has become his home town. And worse still, implicate numerous other, like minded, deluded fools, ALL of whom are doctors!
Consider this: what we have here is not a conflict; it is not terrorism born from a desire to be free from an oppressive regime, or any other ideal that, in desperation becomes violent in its movement. This is about the most extreme, corrupted, twisted form of religion imaginable.
How powerful this must be when it can take men of such education and ability and compel them to carry out such acts in a totally premeditated fashion, with the promise of unlimited rewards in paradise. But we are missing this; it is not politically correct to attack religion. It is seen as a removal of rights of the individual to worship in the manner they choose. How do we then deal with a religion that can fuel behaviour so extreme?
Well comparatively speaking we do not have kilted, Scottish Protestants running through Marks and Spencers in Argyll Street with plastic strapped to their chest screaming, “John Knox is Great!” and then pushing the button. Nor is the same act committed by Luigi who runs the chippie on a Paisley street corner, although in his case he would probably be heard to praise the Pope instead before detonation. Indeed I could also go on about Manny, the Jewish tailor who has been dressing Glasgow men in real style for years without feeling that because of the horrors of Palestine he needs to self destruct taking some of his fellow Scots with him; I think by now you get the picture.
I also think I can speak for my fellow Scots when I say that if you are of the mind of any of the “doctors” so intent on these acts, you are most definitely not welcome in our country.
We do not want, nor will we tolerate, your brand of religion. This to me was confirmed by the news images of the brave off-duty copper hosing down the burning terrorist and getting burnt himself: beside him a Glasgow man looking on stated simply, “Let the bastard burn!”
Sound advice indeed.
We have to be forever grateful to the fortitude and superb professionalism of Strathclyde Police, who had the whole affair under control and the perpetrators and other suspects not only in Scotland but Australia also, under lock and key in just a few days. They did this without a single loss of life or serious injury to the public. That to me is what true policing is about; protecting life and apprehending those who would harm others.
We managed to rid Scotland of our Inquisitors and witch burners centuries ago: we have no need for a return to this kind of wickedness in the name of religion.
Well said.Paisley is a deeply historic town with cultural associations going back many centuries, although sadly when you look at it now it is difficult to believe it is the same town it was even thirty years ago. It is a town devoid of social and economic spirit; a town devastated by a combination of the closure of traditional manufacturing industries in Scotland and the appalling management of what could arguably be described as the worst Council in the whole British Isles.
I had to shake my head as I listened to the words of the young BBC reporter yet again getting it completely wrong by stating that "Scotland is a country that is no stranger to terrorism". I suggest she gets educated or finds another job. Her reference was to Lockerbie, an event that was not of course an attack on Scotland. It was an attack directly on the USA via the then epitome of American affluence, PanAm. The bomb that destroyed their 747 was intended to detonate over the sea but, by a horrific quirk of fate did so in the flight corridor over Scotland, changing the lives of the people of Lockerbie for all time.
The reality in the world wide scheme of things is that there has never been a single terrorist attack on Scotland, not even a hint or suggestion that any groups, no matter how disgruntled they were at the “capitalists” or the British Government, would attack our beautiful land.
Even at the height of the Irish conflict, there was absolutely no aggression displayed against us. There are doubtless many and varied reasons for this, but high on the list of these I am certain is the perception that the Scottish people in the past had their fair share of oppression and brutality and therefore are viewed as empathetic to just causes; although I would hasten to add that our abhorrence of terrorism is at least equal to that of any other thinking nation.
Now, this has all changed, and there is a feeling of desperate sadness, of the closure of an era and the opening of a much more sinister, shadowy existence. An existence of mistrust and the realisation of what it means to invite people of an overtly different society and culture into your country and the risks in doing so without control, without ground rules. The Scots are known world wide for their open friendliness and hospitality, and I cannot but feel that this was used to the advantage of those who would attempt to ruin our society; used to infiltrate the very heart of caring in our country, the hospitals.
Consider this: what manner of individual is it that, with suitably high intelligence, would study for most likely seven years, take a Hippocratic oath to preserve and save life and then manufacture a mobile bomb from a motor vehicle, pour petrol over himself and attempt to destroy an airport in what has become his home town. And worse still, implicate numerous other, like minded, deluded fools, ALL of whom are doctors!
Consider this: what we have here is not a conflict; it is not terrorism born from a desire to be free from an oppressive regime, or any other ideal that, in desperation becomes violent in its movement. This is about the most extreme, corrupted, twisted form of religion imaginable.
How powerful this must be when it can take men of such education and ability and compel them to carry out such acts in a totally premeditated fashion, with the promise of unlimited rewards in paradise. But we are missing this; it is not politically correct to attack religion. It is seen as a removal of rights of the individual to worship in the manner they choose. How do we then deal with a religion that can fuel behaviour so extreme?
Well comparatively speaking we do not have kilted, Scottish Protestants running through Marks and Spencers in Argyll Street with plastic strapped to their chest screaming, “John Knox is Great!” and then pushing the button. Nor is the same act committed by Luigi who runs the chippie on a Paisley street corner, although in his case he would probably be heard to praise the Pope instead before detonation. Indeed I could also go on about Manny, the Jewish tailor who has been dressing Glasgow men in real style for years without feeling that because of the horrors of Palestine he needs to self destruct taking some of his fellow Scots with him; I think by now you get the picture.
I also think I can speak for my fellow Scots when I say that if you are of the mind of any of the “doctors” so intent on these acts, you are most definitely not welcome in our country.
We do not want, nor will we tolerate, your brand of religion. This to me was confirmed by the news images of the brave off-duty copper hosing down the burning terrorist and getting burnt himself: beside him a Glasgow man looking on stated simply, “Let the bastard burn!”
Sound advice indeed.
We have to be forever grateful to the fortitude and superb professionalism of Strathclyde Police, who had the whole affair under control and the perpetrators and other suspects not only in Scotland but Australia also, under lock and key in just a few days. They did this without a single loss of life or serious injury to the public. That to me is what true policing is about; protecting life and apprehending those who would harm others.
We managed to rid Scotland of our Inquisitors and witch burners centuries ago: we have no need for a return to this kind of wickedness in the name of religion.
We've lived with this sh1t for thirty years. IRA bus bombs, car bombs, 7/7.
Welcome to our world.
MK4 Slowride said:
It was the Lockerbie bombing in which I lost four members of my family. Still the most murderous terrorist attack on British soil. People seem to have forgotten this, my family & I haven't.
Jesus Phil, sorry to hear that. As Jith says the Paisley attack is the first direct attack against Scotland by these fuckwits, time will tell hopefully as to what they hoped to achieve. Personally it seems like a massive own goal
MK4 Slowride said:
It was the Lockerbie bombing in which I lost four members of my family. Still the most murderous terrorist attack on British soil. People seem to have forgotten this, my family & I haven't.
Worst thing about that (and all terrorist attacks as far as I can see) is the pointlessness. Doesn't get anybody anywhere and leaves the innocent people caught up in their shit in tatters.
NobleGuy said:
MK4 Slowride said:
It was the Lockerbie bombing in which I lost four members of my family. Still the most murderous terrorist attack on British soil. People seem to have forgotten this, my family & I haven't.
Worst thing about that (and all terrorist attacks as far as I can see) is the pointlessness. Doesn't get anybody anywhere and leaves the innocent people caught up in their shit in tatters.MK4 Slowride said:
My dad and I had a chat about what we thought would happen when tony went. An attack of some sort was almost inevitable really. For them to say Tony might have gone but we haven't & we still hate you. Sick.
I am sorry for your loss MK4, it is one of the worst tragedies imaginable.I drove past Lockerbie with my daughter just a few days after it happened, and the silence and spectacle were truly unforgettable.
What to me is particularly relevant is that the Scottish people at the last election demonstrated just how much they are rejecting the Westminster government. We now have an SNP First Minister and for the first time in modern history the Scottish electorate have rejected a Labour government.
This makes these attacks in political terms even more pointless and non productive and reinforces the point about them being in essence of a religious nature. We MUST get out heads round this to progress towards a solution. We should be placing much more pressure on those who would claim that their religion is of a peaceful, ordered nature and impress upon them the need to clean up their own act within and become much more liberal in order to integrate into our society. We should not have to compensate for their extreme beliefs; not even in the slightest. If they feel they cannot integrate into the kind of society that we have, they can leave.
jith said:
The Scots are known world wide for their open friendliness and hospitality
Which is one of the reasons that my partner and I love Scotland so much - one visit already this year, two more planned.
I would not want to say on a public forum what I would like to see done to the perpetrators of these acts........
As we enojoy banning things so much - lets just ban Islam - tear down all the mosques and kick every muslim out of England. Ok, so I know they aren't all terrosists and most are decent members of society but tough shit - some of them have ruined it for the rest of them - get em out now - quite frankly if I was one i would be planning on leaving very soon anyway before the race wars start. And they will.
paul001 said:
As we enojoy banning things so much - lets just ban Islam - tear down all the mosques and kick every muslim out of England. Ok, so I know they aren't all terrosists and most are decent members of society but tough shit - some of them have ruined it for the rest of them - get em out now - quite frankly if I was one i would be planning on leaving very soon anyway before the race wars start. And they will.
I agree with you Paul, my view on immigrants et al has been prejudiced by what happened. I hate the way we accept anyone and everyone with open arms in our country, let them build their temples walk around in traditional dress give them in effect more freedoms than our own citizens. Could an English man go to their country build a church and act the way they do in our country, fat chance. The church would be bombed and anyone who dared speak up would be be-headed in public. The very fact that non-indigenous people have the audacity to ask for Sharia law in the UK goes to show how dire the situation really is and how we've let it get too far.paul001 said:
As we enojoy banning things so much - lets just ban Islam - tear down all the mosques and kick every muslim out of England. Ok, so I know they aren't all terrosists and most are decent members of society but tough shit - some of them have ruined it for the rest of them - get em out now - quite frankly if I was one i would be planning on leaving very soon anyway before the race wars start. And they will.
You're a brave man posting that. I reckon that 99% of PHers agree with you - silently.I'm sure they do - I'm surprised Health and Safety haven't thought of it yet though.
I'm deadly serious though - not something I wish for, not something I like but the young generation growing up now are growing up in an environment where terrorism and attacks are happening on an all too frequent scale. There will be another big one somehwere sometime in this country and when it happens it will be one too many that push certain types over the edge and they will retaliate. A mosque will be burnt down somewhere leading to more and more and more and we will end up in a race war because any muslim will become untrustworthy and labelled by others in society. Personally I hope it doesn't happen but I seriously think it will happen. These things always have a sense of irony and the islam extremists who are targeting the "west" will just turn the west against the extremeists own people of whom 99.9% are completely as innocent as any non muslim but they will make there own followers suffer in the end more than non muslims ever will.
I'm deadly serious though - not something I wish for, not something I like but the young generation growing up now are growing up in an environment where terrorism and attacks are happening on an all too frequent scale. There will be another big one somehwere sometime in this country and when it happens it will be one too many that push certain types over the edge and they will retaliate. A mosque will be burnt down somewhere leading to more and more and more and we will end up in a race war because any muslim will become untrustworthy and labelled by others in society. Personally I hope it doesn't happen but I seriously think it will happen. These things always have a sense of irony and the islam extremists who are targeting the "west" will just turn the west against the extremeists own people of whom 99.9% are completely as innocent as any non muslim but they will make there own followers suffer in the end more than non muslims ever will.
Edited by paul001 on Friday 6th July 15:26
Vesuvius 996 said:
paul001 said:
As we enojoy banning things so much - lets just ban Islam - tear down all the mosques and kick every muslim out of England. Ok, so I know they aren't all terrosists and most are decent members of society but tough shit - some of them have ruined it for the rest of them - get em out now - quite frankly if I was one i would be planning on leaving very soon anyway before the race wars start. And they will.
You're a brave man posting that. I reckon that 99% of PHers agree with you - silently.Best wishes all,
Dave.
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