Lied to by Police Officer
Discussion
Let me start by saying I'm currently in New Zealand but the principle is the same(I presume)as in the UK.
Last week I was travelling behind a vehicle in a 70kph zone and a police car approached dead ahead. He flashed his lights and U Turned overtook me and pulled the car infront of me and directed me to also stop. He approached me and said his in car laser zapped us both doing 88kph. I asked him how he could zap us both as we were single file. He replied that his car has 2 lasers and it zapped me through the other car. Of course I was a bit sceptical. He then asked me for my licence. I didnt have it on me. No problem he said (it is legally required to carry one) he wasnt going to issue a ticket on the licence but would on the speed. After a bit more banter the other driver also questioned how he can zap us both and I replied saying id get it looked into. At that moment the police officer said he will now take me to task on the licence and fined me 400 dollars but would not issue a speeding ticket.
Legally can an officer let you off then change his mind and if I can prove he lied about the laser is there a case to answer-hasn't he perverted the course of justice. If this happened in the UK and i know 99% of our law follows yours.
Other driver is happy to sign a statement stating she witnessed the porkies.
Cheers
Last week I was travelling behind a vehicle in a 70kph zone and a police car approached dead ahead. He flashed his lights and U Turned overtook me and pulled the car infront of me and directed me to also stop. He approached me and said his in car laser zapped us both doing 88kph. I asked him how he could zap us both as we were single file. He replied that his car has 2 lasers and it zapped me through the other car. Of course I was a bit sceptical. He then asked me for my licence. I didnt have it on me. No problem he said (it is legally required to carry one) he wasnt going to issue a ticket on the licence but would on the speed. After a bit more banter the other driver also questioned how he can zap us both and I replied saying id get it looked into. At that moment the police officer said he will now take me to task on the licence and fined me 400 dollars but would not issue a speeding ticket.
Legally can an officer let you off then change his mind and if I can prove he lied about the laser is there a case to answer-hasn't he perverted the course of justice. If this happened in the UK and i know 99% of our law follows yours.
Other driver is happy to sign a statement stating she witnessed the porkies.
Cheers
Edited by burwoodman on Monday 23 July 11:58
Don't know anything about NZ law, and although it all sounds like an odd tale I think waht it may boil down to, as it stands, is that you were asked to produce a legally required document - and couldn't.
BUT, are they allowed to stop you, without an "offence" happening in teh first place?
BUT, are they allowed to stop you, without an "offence" happening in teh first place?
Fair enough-Im not after the precise NZ law. I have been on these boards for years and just wanted to know what you guys thought.
Im thining about making a big deal out of it-the guy was a rotten apple and never should have pulled me to start with. The fine was a vindictive abuse of power in my opinion.
Im thining about making a big deal out of it-the guy was a rotten apple and never should have pulled me to start with. The fine was a vindictive abuse of power in my opinion.
Agreed-he had no right pulling me. Second he asked for the document but said he wasnt going to issue a ticket on this infringement. Third he blatantly lied about his ability to detect my speed which speaks volumes about his integrity. And finally when 'sprung' he reverted back to the licence issue.
If a court discharges you they dont change their mind. I cant see the difference
If a court discharges you they dont change their mind. I cant see the difference
Edited by burwoodman on Monday 23 July 12:22
Does he sound like an arse on a power-trip? Yes.
Is he legally allowed to do what he did? Don't know NZ law, but probably yes, sorry to say.
Is it worth making a complaint? I'd say yes - if he's stitched the $400 fine on you already, you've little to lose except for further irritating a (potentially bad) cop.
Is he legally allowed to do what he did? Don't know NZ law, but probably yes, sorry to say.
Is it worth making a complaint? I'd say yes - if he's stitched the $400 fine on you already, you've little to lose except for further irritating a (potentially bad) cop.
Last I heard failing to carry your licence was a $120 fine (iirc) not $400 - $400 is generally for breaching conditions of a licence, ie driving on L plates without a supervisor or carrying passengers on a restricted.
PS the speed reading through another car sounds like utter b0ll0x too. My guess he was trying to make up his speeding ticket quota for the day but since you weren't going to let him do that he decided to try and 'do you' for anything else he could.
Just checked up here: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/legislation/penalty.html
Driving without carrying you licence is a $55 fine rather than $400
- Driving if you don't have a licence at all is $400, as is breaching conditions of your licence.
What does the ticket/fine (aka 'infringement notice') say the offence was?
PS the speed reading through another car sounds like utter b0ll0x too. My guess he was trying to make up his speeding ticket quota for the day but since you weren't going to let him do that he decided to try and 'do you' for anything else he could.
Just checked up here: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/legislation/penalty.html
Driving without carrying you licence is a $55 fine rather than $400
- Driving if you don't have a licence at all is $400, as is breaching conditions of your licence.What does the ticket/fine (aka 'infringement notice') say the offence was?
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 23 July 21:35
Does sound a bit sus but a 
can pull you over for any reason.
Normally you will get off the 'failure to carry' ticket if you take your license into a CopShop within 24 hours.
What license do you have? Is it valid? (How long have you been in NZ and on what visa)
Like Ben I'd be interested in the precise detail of the ticket.
can pull you over for any reason.Normally you will get off the 'failure to carry' ticket if you take your license into a CopShop within 24 hours.
What license do you have? Is it valid? (How long have you been in NZ and on what visa)
Like Ben I'd be interested in the precise detail of the ticket.
First things first, if he was in his vehicle, yu've been snapped on RADAR, not Laser (LIDAR).
Second, NZ Police units DO have the capability to track 2 targets moving in the same direction simultaneously. The Stalker and Silver Eagle traffic radar units both have the capability to track “STRONGEST TARGET” and “FASTEST TARGET” and is usually to snap people who are overtaking another vehicle... never heard it used in your situation where two vehicles are travelling the same speed. Theoretically.. if he’s booked you both for the same speed, then he can’t have nabbed you both because his RADAR unit only shows strongest and fastest signal.
KiwiXTR2 is right, the $400 fine is only for breach of licence CONDITIONS, not for failing to carry your licence.
Also, if you were doing 88km/h in a 70 zone, it’s a $120 fine, and 15 demerit points I think
A complete list of traffic offences is displayed here.
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/legislation/penalty.html
In NZ, it’s pretty common for cops to change their tune mid-collar and say “I’ll let you off with X, but charge you with Y”... like if they pull you over for having a headlight out but then decide to charge you for not wearing a seatbelt. Basically the cops here are w@nkers... Even more biased towards revenue-gathering than in the UK..... you were unlucky enough to pass him when he needed to fill up his traffic ticket quota for the week/month, simple as that.
As for fighting it... I’d be fighting the $400 licence fine, but best you can really hope for is that it’s dropped back to a simple$50 “failing to carry licence” fine rather than the $400 fine you now face (assuming your licence DOES actually entitle you to drive in NZ)
Second, NZ Police units DO have the capability to track 2 targets moving in the same direction simultaneously. The Stalker and Silver Eagle traffic radar units both have the capability to track “STRONGEST TARGET” and “FASTEST TARGET” and is usually to snap people who are overtaking another vehicle... never heard it used in your situation where two vehicles are travelling the same speed. Theoretically.. if he’s booked you both for the same speed, then he can’t have nabbed you both because his RADAR unit only shows strongest and fastest signal.
KiwiXTR2 is right, the $400 fine is only for breach of licence CONDITIONS, not for failing to carry your licence.
Also, if you were doing 88km/h in a 70 zone, it’s a $120 fine, and 15 demerit points I think
A complete list of traffic offences is displayed here.
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/legislation/penalty.html
In NZ, it’s pretty common for cops to change their tune mid-collar and say “I’ll let you off with X, but charge you with Y”... like if they pull you over for having a headlight out but then decide to charge you for not wearing a seatbelt. Basically the cops here are w@nkers... Even more biased towards revenue-gathering than in the UK..... you were unlucky enough to pass him when he needed to fill up his traffic ticket quota for the week/month, simple as that.
As for fighting it... I’d be fighting the $400 licence fine, but best you can really hope for is that it’s dropped back to a simple$50 “failing to carry licence” fine rather than the $400 fine you now face (assuming your licence DOES actually entitle you to drive in NZ)
the licence issue is as you suspect-the old paper jobie but ive been out of the country for 11 years and had no idea they changed to a photo id. it isnt relevant anyway as I was ticketed in December for 121k/h and the officer said nothing about the licence and was stopped 3 weeks ago, licence checked and again nothing said to me about the old licence. I now have the new licence anyway
I explained the overseas situation and ive been back 12 months-he didnt care-he wanted to fine me. I fully intend pleading mitigation on the fact i have been abroad for 11 years. How would I even know about the new rules. Further the previous too police collars since xmas should have resulted in them saying "btw ur licence has expired"
It's not the fine-it's the attitude of this guy. I wonder how many other people he has bullied into accepting bogus tickets. the other driver is making a statement and if they want to play hard i'll have my day in court and make as much fuss as possible.
I trust common sense prevails and they let me off the fine on the above basis.
I explained the overseas situation and ive been back 12 months-he didnt care-he wanted to fine me. I fully intend pleading mitigation on the fact i have been abroad for 11 years. How would I even know about the new rules. Further the previous too police collars since xmas should have resulted in them saying "btw ur licence has expired"
It's not the fine-it's the attitude of this guy. I wonder how many other people he has bullied into accepting bogus tickets. the other driver is making a statement and if they want to play hard i'll have my day in court and make as much fuss as possible.
I trust common sense prevails and they let me off the fine on the above basis.
burwoodman said:
the licence issue is as you suspect-the old paper jobie but ive been out of the country for 11 years and had no idea they changed to a photo id. it isnt relevant anyway as I was ticketed in December for 121k/h and the officer said nothing about the licence and was stopped 3 weeks ago, licence checked and again nothing said to me about the old licence. I now have the new licence anyway
I explained the overseas situation and ive been back 12 months-he didnt care-he wanted to fine me. I fully intend pleading mitigation on the fact i have been abroad for 11 years. How would I even know about the new rules. Further the previous too police collars since xmas should have resulted in them saying "btw ur licence has expired"
It's not the fine-it's the attitude of this guy. I wonder how many other people he has bullied into accepting bogus tickets. the other driver is making a statement and if they want to play hard i'll have my day in court and make as much fuss as possible.
I trust common sense prevails and they let me off the fine on the above basis.
Good luck.I explained the overseas situation and ive been back 12 months-he didnt care-he wanted to fine me. I fully intend pleading mitigation on the fact i have been abroad for 11 years. How would I even know about the new rules. Further the previous too police collars since xmas should have resulted in them saying "btw ur licence has expired"
It's not the fine-it's the attitude of this guy. I wonder how many other people he has bullied into accepting bogus tickets. the other driver is making a statement and if they want to play hard i'll have my day in court and make as much fuss as possible.
I trust common sense prevails and they let me off the fine on the above basis.
Technically you're done. Pleading for mitigation is asking them to exercise discretion . . . something that has almost been completely regulated out of the NZ
sMake sure in your letter seeking review or a defended hearing that you include a copy of your application for a new license. Shows good faith on your part
With it expired that long I think you'll actually need to sit the theory and practical
Thanks- Land Transport simply approved the new licence. No issue there. They accept that as i was out of the country pre 98 when the changes were made then how would i know any change took place. There was no question of sitting any further tests but yes it did cross my mind.
Quite frankly if they tried that i would take a trip to Australia, re start the 12 month clock on my UK licence and drive full time on that. I checked the statute and legally I can do that. The law was changed to comply with United Nations regs to allow 12 months from the 'last' entry date for all visitors.
Quite frankly if they tried that i would take a trip to Australia, re start the 12 month clock on my UK licence and drive full time on that. I checked the statute and legally I can do that. The law was changed to comply with United Nations regs to allow 12 months from the 'last' entry date for all visitors.
burwoodman said:
Thanks- Land Transport simply approved the new licence. No issue there. They accept that as i was out of the country pre 98 when the changes were made then how would i know any change took place. There was no question of sitting any further tests but yes it did cross my mind.
Quite frankly if they tried that i would take a trip to Australia, re start the 12 month clock on my UK licence and drive full time on that. I checked the statute and legally I can do that. The law was changed to comply with United Nations regs to allow 12 months from the 'last' entry date for all visitors.
The LTNZ documentation should certainly help.Quite frankly if they tried that i would take a trip to Australia, re start the 12 month clock on my UK licence and drive full time on that. I checked the statute and legally I can do that. The law was changed to comply with United Nations regs to allow 12 months from the 'last' entry date for all visitors.
Best of luck
burwoodman said:
the licence issue is as you suspect-the old paper jobie but ive been out of the country for 11 years and had no idea they changed to a photo id. it isnt relevant anyway as I was ticketed in December for 121k/h and the officer said nothing about the licence and was stopped 3 weeks ago, licence checked and again nothing said to me about the old licence. I now have the new licence anyway
I explained the overseas situation and ive been back 12 months-he didnt care-he wanted to fine me. I fully intend pleading mitigation on the fact i have been abroad for 11 years. How would I even know about the new rules. Further the previous too police collars since xmas should have resulted in them saying "btw ur licence has expired"
It's not the fine-it's the attitude of this guy. I wonder how many other people he has bullied into accepting bogus tickets. the other driver is making a statement and if they want to play hard i'll have my day in court and make as much fuss as possible.
I trust common sense prevails and they let me off the fine on the above basis.
I explained the overseas situation and ive been back 12 months-he didnt care-he wanted to fine me. I fully intend pleading mitigation on the fact i have been abroad for 11 years. How would I even know about the new rules. Further the previous too police collars since xmas should have resulted in them saying "btw ur licence has expired"
It's not the fine-it's the attitude of this guy. I wonder how many other people he has bullied into accepting bogus tickets. the other driver is making a statement and if they want to play hard i'll have my day in court and make as much fuss as possible.
I trust common sense prevails and they let me off the fine on the above basis.
burwoodman said:
... I asked him how he could zap us both as we were single file. He replied that his car has 2 lasers and it zapped me through the other car.
Examination of the lead vehicle would have revealed the hole made by the laser thereby demonstrating the potential veracity of the officer's statement 
- Streakystreaky said:
burwoodman said:
... I asked him how he could zap us both as we were single file. He replied that his car has 2 lasers and it zapped me through the other car.
Examination of the lead vehicle would have revealed the hole made by the laser thereby demonstrating the potential veracity of the officer's statement - Streaky...explains a lot!
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