Almost forced off the road, where do I stand?
Discussion
Hi all, have a read and let me know where you think I stand regarding liabilty,
Cheers Caver2k5.
While driving along the back roads near where I live, the line of traffic I was in came apon someone riding a vintage motorbike after a few miles all the traffic except the Audi TT in front had passed the bike which was trundling along at little over 20mph.
We came on to a nice straight bit of road, but the Audi made no attempt to overtake, so I have a quick look over my shoulder, put on my indicator and pull out.
As the nose of my car reaches the wing mirror on the Audi, it's indicator comes on it starts to pull out, I pull over putting more room between us in hope they spot me and pull in (offside wheel now running on the verge and hedge row becoming very close) but it kepps on coming...BANG!
We both pull over and I'm shouted at for attempting to pass when they were already overtaking, I say "try using your mirrors before you pull out, I was overtaking first, thats why all the damage is on the offside door of you car not the rear"
The only witnesse was the person on the bike, I don't think he even noticed, he never stopped.
I had my Gf with me and she had her teenage daughter with her.
Had some bloke on from her insurance badgering me to addmit liability, I said "no way"
But I have a horrible feeling that it will go 50-50 or against me.
The bumper has rippled under the headlight and split at the wheel arch.
Wing has pushed in to the headlight and the gap between the wing an bonnet is well out
Heres the work they are doing on my ST.................
Parts / Panels Requiring Renewal
L.F WING
L.DOOR MOULDING
st badge
st badge
st badge
Parts / Panels Requiring Repair
FRT BUMPER .REMOVED.REPAIR PAINT PLASTIC
FRT BUMPER .REMOVED.REPAIR PAINT PLASTIC
Associated Work Required
R + R R/F BADGE
RENEW L/F WING
INCLUDES: R + R HEADLAMP, WHEELHOUSE
LINER AND BUMPER
R + R RIGHT FRONT WHEEL ARCH COVER
R + R WINDSCREEN WASHER NOZZLES
R + R LEFT FRONT DOOR TRIM
R + R LEFT FRONT DOOR HANDLE
R + R L/F DOOR MOULDING
R + R L/FRONT DOOR WINDOW SEAL
R + R L/OUTER MIRROR
REMOVE LEFT SKIRT -BODYSHELL
REFIT LEFT SKIRT -BODYSHELL
REPAIR FRONT BUMPER
Corr.Protect.Ex TO 1ST PANEL
Parts / Panels Requiring Painting
L/F WING NEW PART PAINTING
FRT BUMPER (REMOVED)REPAIR PAINT PLASTIC
BONNET SURFACE PAINT
R/F WING SURFACE PAINT
LEFT DOOR SURFACE PAINT
L/SILL PANEL SURFACE PAINT
L/SILL EXTENSION SURFACE PAINT PLAST.
LEFT A-PILLAR SURFACE PAINT
L/ROOF FRAME SURFACE PAINT
Been back on to the insurance (now 2 weeks since it happend), not sounding good at all, the TT driver won't except any blame, she claims she was turning right!!, no right hand turn for a few miles (except a farm entrance, which we had already passed) on that stretch of road, I don't think so, not unless she was going to drive through the hedge she tried to put me through.
They also say I was in the wrong for overtaking more than 1 vehicle at a time!! a car and a vintage motorbike travelling at less than 30mph on a 60mph road with a clear road for miles in front of me!!, not a major manoeuvre.
They want a detailed description of what happend, some photo's and I think I'll send them a copy of a road map showing where it happend as well.
Cheers Caver2k5.
While driving along the back roads near where I live, the line of traffic I was in came apon someone riding a vintage motorbike after a few miles all the traffic except the Audi TT in front had passed the bike which was trundling along at little over 20mph.
We came on to a nice straight bit of road, but the Audi made no attempt to overtake, so I have a quick look over my shoulder, put on my indicator and pull out.
As the nose of my car reaches the wing mirror on the Audi, it's indicator comes on it starts to pull out, I pull over putting more room between us in hope they spot me and pull in (offside wheel now running on the verge and hedge row becoming very close) but it kepps on coming...BANG!
We both pull over and I'm shouted at for attempting to pass when they were already overtaking, I say "try using your mirrors before you pull out, I was overtaking first, thats why all the damage is on the offside door of you car not the rear"
The only witnesse was the person on the bike, I don't think he even noticed, he never stopped.
I had my Gf with me and she had her teenage daughter with her.
Had some bloke on from her insurance badgering me to addmit liability, I said "no way"
But I have a horrible feeling that it will go 50-50 or against me.
The bumper has rippled under the headlight and split at the wheel arch.
Wing has pushed in to the headlight and the gap between the wing an bonnet is well out
Heres the work they are doing on my ST.................
Parts / Panels Requiring Renewal
L.F WING
L.DOOR MOULDING
st badge
st badge
st badge
Parts / Panels Requiring Repair
FRT BUMPER .REMOVED.REPAIR PAINT PLASTIC
FRT BUMPER .REMOVED.REPAIR PAINT PLASTIC
Associated Work Required
R + R R/F BADGE
RENEW L/F WING
INCLUDES: R + R HEADLAMP, WHEELHOUSE
LINER AND BUMPER
R + R RIGHT FRONT WHEEL ARCH COVER
R + R WINDSCREEN WASHER NOZZLES
R + R LEFT FRONT DOOR TRIM
R + R LEFT FRONT DOOR HANDLE
R + R L/F DOOR MOULDING
R + R L/FRONT DOOR WINDOW SEAL
R + R L/OUTER MIRROR
REMOVE LEFT SKIRT -BODYSHELL
REFIT LEFT SKIRT -BODYSHELL
REPAIR FRONT BUMPER
Corr.Protect.Ex TO 1ST PANEL
Parts / Panels Requiring Painting
L/F WING NEW PART PAINTING
FRT BUMPER (REMOVED)REPAIR PAINT PLASTIC
BONNET SURFACE PAINT
R/F WING SURFACE PAINT
LEFT DOOR SURFACE PAINT
L/SILL PANEL SURFACE PAINT
L/SILL EXTENSION SURFACE PAINT PLAST.
LEFT A-PILLAR SURFACE PAINT
L/ROOF FRAME SURFACE PAINT
Been back on to the insurance (now 2 weeks since it happend), not sounding good at all, the TT driver won't except any blame, she claims she was turning right!!, no right hand turn for a few miles (except a farm entrance, which we had already passed) on that stretch of road, I don't think so, not unless she was going to drive through the hedge she tried to put me through.
They also say I was in the wrong for overtaking more than 1 vehicle at a time!! a car and a vintage motorbike travelling at less than 30mph on a 60mph road with a clear road for miles in front of me!!, not a major manoeuvre.
They want a detailed description of what happend, some photo's and I think I'll send them a copy of a road map showing where it happend as well.
Not sure about what will happen tbh, but I used google maps when some dozy feckwit claimed it was my fault he pulled out from a side rode, sent these to insurance company (better than any sketch I can do), was sorted. Good luck with your claim though, perhaps next time a bit of brake and a lot of horn would be a good idea (not critisising btw)
OK. You do have witnesses so there's a chance.
WRITE A FULL DESCRIPTION OF THE ACCIDENT NOW. Contemporaeneous notes will be VITAL. Go take pictures. Prepare your road map. Ensure that the names and addresses and contact details of your witnesses are included in your description. Take photographs of all damage sustained to your car. Get your witnesses to write up notes NOW before they forget...and don't try to influence what they write.
If you could go back in time I'd advise you to take photographs of the damage to the Audi and also the scene.
It is NOT illegal to overtake more than one car at a time. It IS a serious driving error not to use your mirrors before pulling out. In fact - its driving without due care and attention - condsider reporting it.
If your insurance includes legal cover you ought to be able to set things in motion - that aspect you will need your insurance company's help on. Tell your company you will not accept 50/50 and send them the a COPY of the witness statement pack.
Go for it. You might not win....but I doubt you can make it any worse.
WRITE A FULL DESCRIPTION OF THE ACCIDENT NOW. Contemporaeneous notes will be VITAL. Go take pictures. Prepare your road map. Ensure that the names and addresses and contact details of your witnesses are included in your description. Take photographs of all damage sustained to your car. Get your witnesses to write up notes NOW before they forget...and don't try to influence what they write.
If you could go back in time I'd advise you to take photographs of the damage to the Audi and also the scene.
It is NOT illegal to overtake more than one car at a time. It IS a serious driving error not to use your mirrors before pulling out. In fact - its driving without due care and attention - condsider reporting it.
If your insurance includes legal cover you ought to be able to set things in motion - that aspect you will need your insurance company's help on. Tell your company you will not accept 50/50 and send them the a COPY of the witness statement pack.
Go for it. You might not win....but I doubt you can make it any worse.
I read sometime ago that if their damage is behind their driver's door, then it'll probably be your fault. If their damage is in front of the back edge of their driver's door, then it's probably their fault. This however is a common-sense theory, and has no- place in today's Britain.
fatboy b said:
I read sometime ago that if their damage is behind their driver's door, then it'll probably be your fault. If their damage is in front of the back edge of their driver's door, then it's probably their fault. This however is a common-sense theory, and has no- place in today's Britain.
How is that common sense?If you're level with any part of their car (or even close to the rear in the other lane)when they attempt to pull out surely it's their fault for not looking over their shoulder?Bing o said:
Surely if you are overtaking then you have priority over the car ahead regardless of where you hit each other - I would fight this all the way, and accept nothing less than 100% in your favour.
Surely a note to the insurers saying "woman, TT" should absolve you of all blame?
"Ladies,know your limits"Surely a note to the insurers saying "woman, TT" should absolve you of all blame?
I am currently helping my girlfriend contest a similar case where the other side and insurance companies want to go 50-50.
All I can say is that 9 months on, there is no progress apart from the initially bullish other party is now very sheepish and has not spoken to his insurance company and supplied an accident report for 9 months. Despite this Tesco/Direct Line have made no effort to close the case. Despite me making clear on about 5 or 6 occasions that under no circumstancs is 50-50 acceptable and to start legal proceedings the last telephone call my girlfriend had was another 'operative' convincing that 50-50 was the only option. When I pressed the matter we actually found that the 'operative' was advising after never having seen the case file!!!
In a nutshell, if you have the legal assistance cover use it as you first opportunity. Get YOUR OWN solicitor, not the tame one they give you.
Both sides will seemingly want 50-50 as it means that both insurance companies may actually profit from the incident through the losses on no claims - and of course thus solution needs only minor paperwork.
Your solicitor will no doubt advise you better than me but they should advise the insurance company that you believe their report to be false and are quite willing to go to court and testify to the same. The other parties insurance company will most likely force her to back down as if they lose this case the legal bill will be large and will cost them.
All I can say is that 9 months on, there is no progress apart from the initially bullish other party is now very sheepish and has not spoken to his insurance company and supplied an accident report for 9 months. Despite this Tesco/Direct Line have made no effort to close the case. Despite me making clear on about 5 or 6 occasions that under no circumstancs is 50-50 acceptable and to start legal proceedings the last telephone call my girlfriend had was another 'operative' convincing that 50-50 was the only option. When I pressed the matter we actually found that the 'operative' was advising after never having seen the case file!!!
In a nutshell, if you have the legal assistance cover use it as you first opportunity. Get YOUR OWN solicitor, not the tame one they give you.
Both sides will seemingly want 50-50 as it means that both insurance companies may actually profit from the incident through the losses on no claims - and of course thus solution needs only minor paperwork.
Your solicitor will no doubt advise you better than me but they should advise the insurance company that you believe their report to be false and are quite willing to go to court and testify to the same. The other parties insurance company will most likely force her to back down as if they lose this case the legal bill will be large and will cost them.
Good luck with this.
Don has covered what you should do now. It's a lot of hassle and stress, but stick to your guns. A similar thing happened to me, only it was a lorry driver who took exception to me overtaking and deliberately swerved at me. Hand on horn and emergency braking were no use. His wishy-washy statement got him in the end. It took 9 months of nonsense and was sorted out within a week of going to the solicitors.
I used aerial photos (unfortunately not covered by google, I paid £50 for mine) to show the road layout.
Pick holes in the third party's story, if her description of the locus of events and her diagram of the scene don't match then you can question her recollection of events. If you were already along side her, which it looks like from the damage, then she should not have moved to the right.
Don has covered what you should do now. It's a lot of hassle and stress, but stick to your guns. A similar thing happened to me, only it was a lorry driver who took exception to me overtaking and deliberately swerved at me. Hand on horn and emergency braking were no use. His wishy-washy statement got him in the end. It took 9 months of nonsense and was sorted out within a week of going to the solicitors.
I used aerial photos (unfortunately not covered by google, I paid £50 for mine) to show the road layout.
Pick holes in the third party's story, if her description of the locus of events and her diagram of the scene don't match then you can question her recollection of events. If you were already along side her, which it looks like from the damage, then she should not have moved to the right.
JustinP1 said:
Both sides will seemingly want 50-50 as it means that both insurance companies may actually profit from the incident through the losses on no claims - and of course thus solution needs only minor paperwork.
That'd only work if the loss of NCD was greater than the cost of the claim,and there's no guarantee that the customer would renew with that co. the next year.Or have I reads it wrong?esselte said:
JustinP1 said:
Both sides will seemingly want 50-50 as it means that both insurance companies may actually profit from the incident through the losses on no claims - and of course thus solution needs only minor paperwork.
That'd only work if the loss of NCD was greater than the cost of the claim,and there's no guarantee that the customer would renew with that co. the next year.Or have I reads it wrong?In my girlfriends case the repair figure was about £2000. My girlfriend has lost £700 excess (if they get their way...) and her insurance as a new driver on a 'nice' car went up by £700 this year too, and will only reduce by a few hundred quid the year after. All in all we worked out the loss to be about £2200 over the next 4 years assuming she would be fault-accident free.
When you look at a situation where both insurance companies can have an easy life, never even have to read a case report or consult a solicitor and effectivley not lose a penny, you can see why they want to do - even if their client is not at fault!
Good luck with getting this resolved, I agree with the others, in that you shouldn't back down on what appears to be through no fault of your own. Did you sound the horn to make the other driver aware of your presence?
Just in case it helps, I came accross a pretty decent mapping site last night, that merges GoogleEarth/Microsoft/Yahoo etc, so if Google doesn't go to a good enough resolution, you can easily swap to MS etc. You may find the road layout here....
PS, not all TT drivers are that bad!
Just in case it helps, I came accross a pretty decent mapping site last night, that merges GoogleEarth/Microsoft/Yahoo etc, so if Google doesn't go to a good enough resolution, you can easily swap to MS etc. You may find the road layout here....
PS, not all TT drivers are that bad!
Thanks for all your comments.
It's 2 weeks yesterday since this happend, I work on an oil rig and I'm away at the moment so it will be some time till I can get back and take some pictures.
Direct Line have already said they wont't except a witness statement from my girlfriend, so it's pretty much my word against hers.
Damage on my car came to £850, not really worth a claim, but I had not noticed the compulsary excess off £650 on my policy, been well fisted by them, will need to go elsewhere when I renew.
I have no idea of the cost of damage on the TT, but it will need a door skin at the minimum
It's 2 weeks yesterday since this happend, I work on an oil rig and I'm away at the moment so it will be some time till I can get back and take some pictures.
Direct Line have already said they wont't except a witness statement from my girlfriend, so it's pretty much my word against hers.
Damage on my car came to £850, not really worth a claim, but I had not noticed the compulsary excess off £650 on my policy, been well fisted by them, will need to go elsewhere when I renew.
I have no idea of the cost of damage on the TT, but it will need a door skin at the minimum
Fight all the way. Insurance companies will always seek the "Easy" way out and that is rarely in your interest. I had to threaten legal action when my wife was involved in a "no fault" claim.
Once it was clear that I was going all the way the insurance company backed down.
It was all under one company, but different branches (no names but I wouldn't trust a talking dog as far as I could kick it) and their best quotation when I suggested they should take the other party to court was "well we can't sue ourselves". I pointed out that if they couldn't I could. They backed down then.
Make sure you et written confirmation that it is a no fault claim too, just in case they put a note on your file.
Once it was clear that I was going all the way the insurance company backed down.
It was all under one company, but different branches (no names but I wouldn't trust a talking dog as far as I could kick it) and their best quotation when I suggested they should take the other party to court was "well we can't sue ourselves". I pointed out that if they couldn't I could. They backed down then.
Make sure you et written confirmation that it is a no fault claim too, just in case they put a note on your file.
I'd definitely consider looking into the DWDC&A angle - I know my brother had a chap go suddenly very quiet and accept full blame after he informed them that he would be asking the police to get involved.
No matter what, I would NOT accept anything less than 100% settlement in your favour. Insurance companies can be an arse but they do seem to get bored if you are insistent enough and make it quite clear from the outset you're happy to go the long haul till you get it your way.
No matter what, I would NOT accept anything less than 100% settlement in your favour. Insurance companies can be an arse but they do seem to get bored if you are insistent enough and make it quite clear from the outset you're happy to go the long haul till you get it your way.
caver2k5 said:
Did I mention the other driver works for/own an insurance broker
but not yours I take it.Get someone to go take a picture of the road, point out no right turns, and that they have made a statement this is what they were doing, that they are obviously liars proved by their own statement and that you will continue pursuing this all the way.
Best of luck with this one mate.
I had a similar incident (but not as serious) with a witness who said I was at fault because I was overtaking.
Only damage was other party's wing mirror which I removed with mine on the way past (well past point of no return) I pointed this out to the witness who then changed her mind thankfully! No damage to my mirror and I never heard anymore about it.
Andy
I had a similar incident (but not as serious) with a witness who said I was at fault because I was overtaking.
Only damage was other party's wing mirror which I removed with mine on the way past (well past point of no return) I pointed this out to the witness who then changed her mind thankfully! No damage to my mirror and I never heard anymore about it.
Andy
SGirl said:
Don said:
OK. You do have witnesses so there's a chance.
No you don't. Witnesses in the car with you can't be used. As we found out to our cost when some dozy git in a truck reversed into us and then told the insurers we'd driven into him. 
I am shocked you were unable to use your passengers as witnesses! Seems ridiculous! They are human beings and present and can take an oath and refuse to perjure themselves by telling the truth are they not? Shocking!
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