Are current road layouts leading to greater accident risk?
Discussion
IMHO current road layouts are leading to greater risk of accidents.
Two examples from a road I use:
1) The road has a crawler lane up a hill after leaving a set of traffic lights. The 40mph limit has been extended virtually to the top of the hill. As a person who does not wish to break the limit I accelerate from the lights, pull into lane 1 (if I was in lane 2) when I reach 40mph and then sit there as the other vehicles pass in lane 2. At the top of the hill after the crawler lane has finished the limit is the NSL, I then repass a few of the vehicles who passed me up the hill (obviously ensuring that no vehicles are coming the other way).
2) Further on down the road was a short section of dual carriage way which has now had one lane hatched. I have to wait until after this section to then pass a few more vehicles.
In both the above the exposure to danger is increased as passing opportunities presented by increasing the number of available lanes has been taken away by the authorities.
Two examples from a road I use:
1) The road has a crawler lane up a hill after leaving a set of traffic lights. The 40mph limit has been extended virtually to the top of the hill. As a person who does not wish to break the limit I accelerate from the lights, pull into lane 1 (if I was in lane 2) when I reach 40mph and then sit there as the other vehicles pass in lane 2. At the top of the hill after the crawler lane has finished the limit is the NSL, I then repass a few of the vehicles who passed me up the hill (obviously ensuring that no vehicles are coming the other way).
2) Further on down the road was a short section of dual carriage way which has now had one lane hatched. I have to wait until after this section to then pass a few more vehicles.
In both the above the exposure to danger is increased as passing opportunities presented by increasing the number of available lanes has been taken away by the authorities.
Whilst it is quite probable that some layouts are increasing risk it is absolutely fecking definite that the lazy barstewards in local councils are increasing accident probability with their cost-cutting lack of cutting the shrubbery and grass, particularly on the islands and verges on the approaches to roundabouts. In fact, it's probably not even as simple as cost-cutting, it's probably deliberate, to "slow people down".
Bastards! 
I have been almost rear ended a few times over the last couple of drives out in the Elise because I have to slow right down and almost stop on the approach to the R/B because I can't feckin see and it's all because they haven't cut the feckin grass!
Urine rapidly approaching 100degC
and breate...
Sorry about that thread hijack... and now back to your regular programme.
Bastards! I have been almost rear ended a few times over the last couple of drives out in the Elise because I have to slow right down and almost stop on the approach to the R/B because I can't feckin see and it's all because they haven't cut the feckin grass!
Urine rapidly approaching 100degC
and breate...
Sorry about that thread hijack... and now back to your regular programme.
ING 3 LANE ROAD THEN HATCH ONE OR MORE LANES OFF! Wankshafts!Our local council have introduced traffic lights on roundabouts which cross dual carriageways. The lights are on some exits but not others.
Net result is that those approaching from the bypass see a green light and do not slow for the roundabout sufficiently, causing a problem as the round the corner and interface with the (hidden) stationary queue waiting to turn into Tescos.
It's genuinely frightening.
There is a 40 limit on approach, but it is ignored.
My argument is that the Green light gives a false sense of security, and that without the lights those approaching the roundabout would need to be a lot more cautious.
It also encourages "beat the lights" syndrome where some drivers are accelerating on approach.
Net result is that those approaching from the bypass see a green light and do not slow for the roundabout sufficiently, causing a problem as the round the corner and interface with the (hidden) stationary queue waiting to turn into Tescos.
It's genuinely frightening.
There is a 40 limit on approach, but it is ignored.
My argument is that the Green light gives a false sense of security, and that without the lights those approaching the roundabout would need to be a lot more cautious.
It also encourages "beat the lights" syndrome where some drivers are accelerating on approach.
actually agree with SB and add in that it is not just a case of lack of grass cutting etc, but some councils actually appear to be installing constructions to prevent a proper sight line.
In the case of the gent with the Elise this is the downside of a low seating position. Perhaps it should be pointed out to the council that their actions actually are a driving force to push people towards buying vehicles with higher seating positions and thus increasing the number of 4x4 on the roads.
Note:- not picking on 4x4s and the like, they don't happen to float my boat and people should have the freedom to choose their mode of transport based on what they like.
In the case of the gent with the Elise this is the downside of a low seating position. Perhaps it should be pointed out to the council that their actions actually are a driving force to push people towards buying vehicles with higher seating positions and thus increasing the number of 4x4 on the roads.
Note:- not picking on 4x4s and the like, they don't happen to float my boat and people should have the freedom to choose their mode of transport based on what they like.
tigger1 said:
There's quite a few roundabouts in Nottingham where visibility is deliberately obscured by metal fencing. Thinkt he logic is that they force you to slow down almost to a stop when approaching the roundabout, but that's obviously not the safest way to negotiate one (IMHO).
Presumably the road engineers think it is the safest way.It's a real pissboiler when the council have so obvisouly fallen for the 'lower speed means more safe' line.
Their attempts to reduce speed may work (for example the hedges at roundabouts) BUT THEY ARE COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT! Their aim should be to make the road safer, not make it more dangerous so people slow down. By doing this sort of thing speeds fall but danger remains constant.
Another example of this is Bath. There's a narrow road around the East of the City (near the Uni) where the council have removed the white line in the middle of the road. Their argument was that it "increases drivers sense of uncertainty" and therefore they would slow down. Again, is it only me who thinks this is missing the point? They're supposed to make roads safer, not slower. They appear to have the wrong objective in mind when devising road layouts.
Their attempts to reduce speed may work (for example the hedges at roundabouts) BUT THEY ARE COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT! Their aim should be to make the road safer, not make it more dangerous so people slow down. By doing this sort of thing speeds fall but danger remains constant.
Another example of this is Bath. There's a narrow road around the East of the City (near the Uni) where the council have removed the white line in the middle of the road. Their argument was that it "increases drivers sense of uncertainty" and therefore they would slow down. Again, is it only me who thinks this is missing the point? They're supposed to make roads safer, not slower. They appear to have the wrong objective in mind when devising road layouts.
tigger1 said:
There's quite a few roundabouts in Nottingham where visibility is deliberately obscured by metal fencing. Thinkt he logic is that they force you to slow down almost to a stop when approaching the roundabout, but that's obviously not the safest way to negotiate one (IMHO).
I'm pretty sure the reason this is done is to stop the roundabout becoming a thoroughfare for traffic from one direction only. You know when, you get a big queue half a mile long because traffic from the right is flowing without break straight over the roundabout, and nervous drivers can't get on the roundabout.Its just a cheaper solution than traffic lights.
herewego said:
tigger1 said:
There's quite a few roundabouts in Nottingham where visibility is deliberately obscured by metal fencing. Thinkt he logic is that they force you to slow down almost to a stop when approaching the roundabout, but that's obviously not the safest way to negotiate one (IMHO).
Presumably the road engineers think it is the safest way.Apologies to any road engineers on here, IFF they can justify it
ETA: IFF = if and only if
Edited by tigger1 on Wednesday 15th August 11:42
IMO the big mistake everyone is making on the roads right now is the huge amounts of signage everywhere, including painted markings on the road.
Signage should be reserved for hazards that are difficult to predict, such as dips in the road, hidden junctions, schools, and t-junctions (where the paint is worn through). There are far too many chevrons, glowing yellow backdrops to signs, painted hatched areas, solid lines, SLOW markings on the roads. Its just information overkill. Roads should be simple, free of clutter, and drivers shouldn't be constrained by a million and one pathetic little rules and regulations including the stupid cameras that enforce bus lanes.
Signage should be reserved for hazards that are difficult to predict, such as dips in the road, hidden junctions, schools, and t-junctions (where the paint is worn through). There are far too many chevrons, glowing yellow backdrops to signs, painted hatched areas, solid lines, SLOW markings on the roads. Its just information overkill. Roads should be simple, free of clutter, and drivers shouldn't be constrained by a million and one pathetic little rules and regulations including the stupid cameras that enforce bus lanes.
herewego said:
tigger1 said:
There's quite a few roundabouts in Nottingham where visibility is deliberately obscured by metal fencing. Thinkt he logic is that they force you to slow down almost to a stop when approaching the roundabout, but that's obviously not the safest way to negotiate one (IMHO).
Presumably the road engineers think it is the safest way.Slough. Crossroads where Oatlands Drive/Stoke Poges Lane/Elliman Avenue meet. The traffic lights have recently been renewed. The contractors that carried out this work must have been stupid / non-english speaking. For each road meeting the junction, there are two pairs of lights.
Both face you.
The second pair of lights should be facing into the junction for the turning traffic.
I've seen so many near misses.
Both face you.
The second pair of lights should be facing into the junction for the turning traffic.
I've seen so many near misses.
esselte said:
herewego said:
tigger1 said:
There's quite a few roundabouts in Nottingham where visibility is deliberately obscured by metal fencing. Thinkt he logic is that they force you to slow down almost to a stop when approaching the roundabout, but that's obviously not the safest way to negotiate one (IMHO).
Presumably the road engineers think it is the safest way.Greater visibility would allow you to enter the roundabout faster if it seems clear, but then a misjudgement would be more expensive.
Edited by herewego on Wednesday 15th August 12:31
herewego said:
esselte said:
herewego said:
tigger1 said:
There's quite a few roundabouts in Nottingham where visibility is deliberately obscured by metal fencing. Thinkt he logic is that they force you to slow down almost to a stop when approaching the roundabout, but that's obviously not the safest way to negotiate one (IMHO).
Presumably the road engineers think it is the safest way.Greater visibility would allow you to enter the roundabout faster if it seems clear, but a then misjudgement would be more expensive.
esselte said:
herewego said:
esselte said:
herewego said:
tigger1 said:
There's quite a few roundabouts in Nottingham where visibility is deliberately obscured by metal fencing. Thinkt he logic is that they force you to slow down almost to a stop when approaching the roundabout, but that's obviously not the safest way to negotiate one (IMHO).
Presumably the road engineers think it is the safest way.Greater visibility would allow you to enter the roundabout faster if it seems clear, but a then misjudgement would be more expensive.
I can't think that I've had any such problem at a roundabout.
herewego said:
esselte said:
herewego said:
esselte said:
herewego said:
tigger1 said:
There's quite a few roundabouts in Nottingham where visibility is deliberately obscured by metal fencing. Thinkt he logic is that they force you to slow down almost to a stop when approaching the roundabout, but that's obviously not the safest way to negotiate one (IMHO).
Presumably the road engineers think it is the safest way.Greater visibility would allow you to enter the roundabout faster if it seems clear, but a then misjudgement would be more expensive.
I can't think that I've had any such problem at a roundabout.
Edited by esselte on Wednesday 15th August 12:43
esselte said:
herewego said:
esselte said:
herewego said:
esselte said:
herewego said:
tigger1 said:
There's quite a few roundabouts in Nottingham where visibility is deliberately obscured by metal fencing. Thinkt he logic is that they force you to slow down almost to a stop when approaching the roundabout, but that's obviously not the safest way to negotiate one (IMHO).
Presumably the road engineers think it is the safest way.Greater visibility would allow you to enter the roundabout faster if it seems clear, but a then misjudgement would be more expensive.
I can't think that I've had any such problem at a roundabout.
Edited by esselte on Wednesday 15th August 12:43
We haven't even established that these sight barriers are a safety issue.
herewego said:
I mentioned speed because I think if I had set off onto a roundabout and somebody suddenly appeared and sideswiped me then they'd have to be going at a hell of a lick.
We haven't even established that these sight barriers are a safety issue.
You see there's the problem,on the R/As I'm talking about the distance you can see round them is so small that even if you set off with no-one in sight then someone doing 20mph on them would still be "coming out of nowhere" We haven't even established that these sight barriers are a safety issue.
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