Guide lines on scammer vans
Discussion
andyuk911 said:
I understand that scammer vans were recommended ONLY to setup accident/danger etc spots.
Hence why 'mobile' locations are marked in GPS type detectors.
Has anybody seen a change to this, ie Scammer vans setting up where they see fit, thus random.
Cumbria and Essex have publicly declared their intent to do this and I have reports on here that this is actually happening in Cumbria.Hence why 'mobile' locations are marked in GPS type detectors.
Has anybody seen a change to this, ie Scammer vans setting up where they see fit, thus random.
Whenever I read about Cumbria scammers, an image of Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition comes into my head for some strange reason.
TheCarpetCleaner said:
Skywalker said:
Their guidelines (Rules of Engagement) have recently been changed so that they can set up where ever they want IIRC.
Rules of Engagement?! Sounds like a war... oh wait it is 
North Wales Arrive Alive have been doing this for about 4 years.
Their published locations were justified by a high level of KSIs on a certain road but IMO they always chose a location where it would be esy to catch people out ( concealed location, safe straight piece of road often with inappropriate and/or recently lowered limits etc ).
I have no accurate or audited data for this but I checked on about 20 occasions where I spotted vans. The vans were at the published 'locations' less than 50% of the time. When I wrote to the spokesperson/PR person about why they were at a new and unpublished location she came back with some excuse that the PC manning the van had been scheduled for training and the training had been cancelled that day so he was directed to enforcement duty and they ( Arrive Alive ) were permitted to enforce 15% of the time at spot sites where there had been an accident record. This place was at the end of a one and a half mile winding country road where there had been a history of KSIs outside the 30 limit zone but none within the zone to my knowledge in 12 years. The enforcement was from a van hidden amongst cars in a public car park targetting people who had not slowed sufficiently as they came round a bend down into a dip where the lollipops are. And catching people going into the dip the other way from the 30 limit who did not keep their foot on the brakes until the lollipops. Those could not see the van at all unless they looked over their left shoulder. A classic scam. She did not reply but resigned soon after.
Their published locations were justified by a high level of KSIs on a certain road but IMO they always chose a location where it would be esy to catch people out ( concealed location, safe straight piece of road often with inappropriate and/or recently lowered limits etc ).
I have no accurate or audited data for this but I checked on about 20 occasions where I spotted vans. The vans were at the published 'locations' less than 50% of the time. When I wrote to the spokesperson/PR person about why they were at a new and unpublished location she came back with some excuse that the PC manning the van had been scheduled for training and the training had been cancelled that day so he was directed to enforcement duty and they ( Arrive Alive ) were permitted to enforce 15% of the time at spot sites where there had been an accident record. This place was at the end of a one and a half mile winding country road where there had been a history of KSIs outside the 30 limit zone but none within the zone to my knowledge in 12 years. The enforcement was from a van hidden amongst cars in a public car park targetting people who had not slowed sufficiently as they came round a bend down into a dip where the lollipops are. And catching people going into the dip the other way from the 30 limit who did not keep their foot on the brakes until the lollipops. Those could not see the van at all unless they looked over their left shoulder. A classic scam. She did not reply but resigned soon after.
I suppose some people's driving behaviour has adapted to the enforcement vans by obeying the limits only for a few yards at known locations then doing their own thing for the rest of the time. As the objective is for people to obey the limits at all times it's only natural for the authorities to widen the enforcement in some way. They cannot set-up just anywhere and there are probably not that many suitable sites.
herewego said:
I suppose some people's driving behaviour has adapted to the enforcement vans by obeying the limits only for a few yards at known locations then doing their own thing for the rest of the time. As the objective is for people to obey the limits at all times it's only natural for the authorities to widen the enforcement in some way.
Spot on explanation of why this would be, stands to reason. herewego said:
They cannot set-up just anywhere and there are probably not that many suitable sites.
Again, spot on, for example the vans will be on a straight rather than in a series of bends because their equipment only works in straight lines, they set up on straights that approach bends and other hazards where accidents concentrate to encourage drivers to slow down on teh approach to the hazard; NOT because it is easier to catch peiople there but because that is where they more often exceed the limit.Simple and logical explanation knocking the alternate theories here well in to touch.
Edited by shack55 on Sunday 26th August 15:56
Hedders said:
Am i the only one who has little 'fantasies' about wandering off the road (at exactly the speed limit)and into the back of a badly placed Scammer van?
Whats the betting it is a much more serious offence to hit a badly parked parked scammer than a badly parked anything else though...
Just beware- Whats the betting it is a much more serious offence to hit a badly parked parked scammer than a badly parked anything else though...
If you do so with an inane grin on your face yelling "die mo'fo's die!" then it will probably be caught on camera and might involve the slight issue of attempted moider!
carrotchomper said:
Hedders said:
Am i the only one who has little 'fantasies' about wandering off the road (at exactly the speed limit)and into the back of a badly placed Scammer van?
Whats the betting it is a much more serious offence to hit a badly parked parked scammer than a badly parked anything else though...
Just beware- Whats the betting it is a much more serious offence to hit a badly parked parked scammer than a badly parked anything else though...
If you do so with an inane grin on your face yelling "die mo'fo's die!" then it will probably be caught on camera and might involve the slight issue of attempted moider!
Arrive Alive are taking full advantage of their new liberties.
Morale in our office was at an all time low on Monday morning, many staff caught accelerating early out of a 30mph limit into a 40.
They enforce a 15 mile stretch of the A487 between Caernarfon and Dolbenmaen, justifying it by using 1998-2000 accident data:
1 person was killed
8 people were seriously injured
109 people received slight injuries
Of these:
5 were children
8 were pedal cyclists
2 were motorcyclists
Half of this is moderately built up, and crucially goes through the local town, hence the high number of slight injuries due to pedestrians failing to cross the road properly etc. I don't know of any speed related accidents on this 15 mile stretch of road - most of the crashes were due to failing to negotiate a bend.
Since then, most of this road has been completely rebuilt, changing it from a narrow, twisty one into a wide (possible to overtake cars even if there is oncoming traffic) one with good surface and gentle curves, and bypassing 3 villages.
W@nkers.
Morale in our office was at an all time low on Monday morning, many staff caught accelerating early out of a 30mph limit into a 40.
They enforce a 15 mile stretch of the A487 between Caernarfon and Dolbenmaen, justifying it by using 1998-2000 accident data:
1 person was killed
8 people were seriously injured
109 people received slight injuries
Of these:
5 were children
8 were pedal cyclists
2 were motorcyclists
Half of this is moderately built up, and crucially goes through the local town, hence the high number of slight injuries due to pedestrians failing to cross the road properly etc. I don't know of any speed related accidents on this 15 mile stretch of road - most of the crashes were due to failing to negotiate a bend.
Since then, most of this road has been completely rebuilt, changing it from a narrow, twisty one into a wide (possible to overtake cars even if there is oncoming traffic) one with good surface and gentle curves, and bypassing 3 villages.
W@nkers.
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