Private land and speed limits
Discussion
Another hypothetical situation - a friend has a large farm with a private road that runs through the middle, and is used by the public as a cut through and for activities based on the land. At the start of the road is a 'homemade' sign stating a 20mph speed limit, yet nobody sticks to it - and can often be quite dangerous as there are many blind corners etc.
Is the speed limit enforceable, possibly as a civil matter rather than criminal? If there were no limit sign, would the speed limit be applied as the NSL or would it be unrestricted?
Is the speed limit enforceable, possibly as a civil matter rather than criminal? If there were no limit sign, would the speed limit be applied as the NSL or would it be unrestricted?
Dwight VanDriver said:
Unlimited unless it has street lighting or Speed Order.
Other case, equally hypothetical until the laaaand shop reopens on Teusday:I build a road across my (long thin) laaaand and post 500mph limit signs - right size, colour typeface, the lot - how do I make them enforcable.
Dwight VanDriver said:
But it may be a 'road or public place' in respect of Insurance, dangherous/due care etc, drink drive etc, but not for the purposes of Excise Duty unless the 'road' is repairable at public expense.dvd
So in that case: the road I live in is private, maintained by the resident's association (and a cul-se-sac to boot). So would I be legally able to drive my SORN'd car up and down the road after say doing the brakes to test that all is okay?^Slider^ said:
Road tax is aplicable for "public roads" ie roads reparable at the publics expense.
You would be fine on a non public road with a SORN. Insurance is still needed though.
I don't think that's quite right - the definition of a "public" road is often taken (even by highway authorities) as "road maintainable at public expense" but I think in terms of the Highways Act 1980 (which I don't have time to look up right now) it's legally, any road over which there is a public right of passage (that is definitely the case in Scotland, and the HA80 is broadly the same). So a road can be privately-maintained but still "public" in terms of the Road Traffic Act etc. You would still need to make an Order to introduce a speed limit olr waiting restrictions even on those "private but public" roads.You would be fine on a non public road with a SORN. Insurance is still needed though.
Only private accesses (ie with no public access, shown by signs and/or gates) would be strictly "private" and then you can drive what you like and put up "non-enforceable" speed limit signs etc.
The offence under Vehicles Excise Act 1994 is:
1) If a person uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle (not being an exempt vehicle) which is unlicensed he is guilty of an offence.
Under the same Act public road is defined as:
(a)
in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, means a road which is repairable at the public expense, and
(b)
in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the [1984 c. 54.] Roads (Scotland) Act 1984, which is:
“road” means, any way (other than a waterway) over which there is a public right of passage (by whatever means [F10 and whether subject to a toll or not]) and includes the road’s verge, and any bridge (whether permanent or temporary) over which, or tunnel through which, the road passes; and any reference to a road includes a part thereof;
Therefore to me this means in England if the road is not maintained at public expense one can motor up and down without Excise licence, but across the border because of the difference in road definition Excise duty is needed.
dvd
1) If a person uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle (not being an exempt vehicle) which is unlicensed he is guilty of an offence.
Under the same Act public road is defined as:
(a)
in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, means a road which is repairable at the public expense, and
(b)
in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the [1984 c. 54.] Roads (Scotland) Act 1984, which is:
“road” means, any way (other than a waterway) over which there is a public right of passage (by whatever means [F10 and whether subject to a toll or not]) and includes the road’s verge, and any bridge (whether permanent or temporary) over which, or tunnel through which, the road passes; and any reference to a road includes a part thereof;
Therefore to me this means in England if the road is not maintained at public expense one can motor up and down without Excise licence, but across the border because of the difference in road definition Excise duty is needed.
dvd
Dwight VanDriver said:
The offence under Vehicles Excise Act 1994 is:
1) If a person uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle (not being an exempt vehicle) which is unlicensed he is guilty of an offence.
Under the same Act public road is defined as:
(a)
in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, means a road which is repairable at the public expense, and
(b)
in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the [1984 c. 54.] Roads (Scotland) Act 1984, which is:
“road” means, any way (other than a waterway) over which there is a public right of passage (by whatever means [F10 and whether subject to a toll or not]) and includes the road’s verge, and any bridge (whether permanent or temporary) over which, or tunnel through which, the road passes; and any reference to a road includes a part thereof;
Therefore to me this means in England if the road is not maintained at public expense one can motor up and down without Excise licence, but across the border because of the difference in road definition Excise duty is needed.
dvd
Something to watch in this regard. Many housing estates include roads which are constructed by the developer. Those are not "adopted" by the local authority (i.e. become roads maintained at the public's expense) until certain conditions have been fulfilled and (potentially) remedial work undertaken by the developer.1) If a person uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle (not being an exempt vehicle) which is unlicensed he is guilty of an offence.
Under the same Act public road is defined as:
(a)
in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, means a road which is repairable at the public expense, and
(b)
in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the [1984 c. 54.] Roads (Scotland) Act 1984, which is:
“road” means, any way (other than a waterway) over which there is a public right of passage (by whatever means [F10 and whether subject to a toll or not]) and includes the road’s verge, and any bridge (whether permanent or temporary) over which, or tunnel through which, the road passes; and any reference to a road includes a part thereof;
Therefore to me this means in England if the road is not maintained at public expense one can motor up and down without Excise licence, but across the border because of the difference in road definition Excise duty is needed.
dvd
The kicker is that there appears to be no requirement formally to notify anybody that a road has become maintained at the public's expense. So one day you could legally leave your untaxed car parked on the road and another day not.
In case you're wondering, I was caught out by this a few years ago and had a car towed by the local council for being untaxed on a public road. The "adoption" process had completed some months earlier but nobody had seen fit to notify the residents (by any means - letters, signs, whatever).
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