BBC Traffic Cops - red light FPN
Discussion
Just watched last night's Traffic Cops (what I recorded) and wondered about the lady given a FPN for driving through a red light.
The approach to the lights was 2 lanes, and she was in the left hand lane, turning left. The right hand lane was completely normal, with a stop line by the lights, just where you'd expect. The left hand lane also had a stop line by the lights, in line with the RHL's one, but in this case it was the advanced stop line in a large cyclists' box. The back of the box, as you'd imagine, was another stop line.
As I understand it, the cycle box and ASL only apply to bikes, and a vechile is not allowed to stop in the box - the vehicle stop line is the back line of the box.
The reason for the post is that the in-car video clearly shows her going over the back line of the box on amber - at which point if I understand it right, she pretty much had to carry on or she'd have had to stop in the box. (BTW, I know she was a dozy driver who took a few goes before she even noticed the marked car with blues and twos on, and she almost certainly could have stopped behind the vehicle stop line if she'd've been paying any attention......)
Anyway, over to Von
The approach to the lights was 2 lanes, and she was in the left hand lane, turning left. The right hand lane was completely normal, with a stop line by the lights, just where you'd expect. The left hand lane also had a stop line by the lights, in line with the RHL's one, but in this case it was the advanced stop line in a large cyclists' box. The back of the box, as you'd imagine, was another stop line.
As I understand it, the cycle box and ASL only apply to bikes, and a vechile is not allowed to stop in the box - the vehicle stop line is the back line of the box.
The reason for the post is that the in-car video clearly shows her going over the back line of the box on amber - at which point if I understand it right, she pretty much had to carry on or she'd have had to stop in the box. (BTW, I know she was a dozy driver who took a few goes before she even noticed the marked car with blues and twos on, and she almost certainly could have stopped behind the vehicle stop line if she'd've been paying any attention......)
Anyway, over to Von
defblade said:
Just watched last night's Traffic Cops (what I recorded) and wondered about the lady given a FPN for driving through a red light.
The approach to the lights was 2 lanes, and she was in the left hand lane, turning left. The right hand lane was completely normal, with a stop line by the lights, just where you'd expect. The left hand lane also had a stop line by the lights, in line with the RHL's one, but in this case it was the advanced stop line in a large cyclists' box. The back of the box, as you'd imagine, was another stop line.
As I understand it, the cycle box and ASL only apply to bikes, and a vechile is not allowed to stop in the box - the vehicle stop line is the back line of the box.
The reason for the post is that the in-car video clearly shows her going over the back line of the box on amber - at which point if I understand it right, she pretty much had to carry on or she'd have had to stop in the box. (BTW, I know she was a dozy driver who took a few goes before she even noticed the marked car with blues and twos on, and she almost certainly could have stopped behind the vehicle stop line if she'd've been paying any attention......)
Anyway, over to Von
You must not cross the advance line against red, if you cross it on amber you must not pass the stop line (proper) against red.The approach to the lights was 2 lanes, and she was in the left hand lane, turning left. The right hand lane was completely normal, with a stop line by the lights, just where you'd expect. The left hand lane also had a stop line by the lights, in line with the RHL's one, but in this case it was the advanced stop line in a large cyclists' box. The back of the box, as you'd imagine, was another stop line.
As I understand it, the cycle box and ASL only apply to bikes, and a vechile is not allowed to stop in the box - the vehicle stop line is the back line of the box.
The reason for the post is that the in-car video clearly shows her going over the back line of the box on amber - at which point if I understand it right, she pretty much had to carry on or she'd have had to stop in the box. (BTW, I know she was a dozy driver who took a few goes before she even noticed the marked car with blues and twos on, and she almost certainly could have stopped behind the vehicle stop line if she'd've been paying any attention......)
Anyway, over to Von
It is possible that you could end up legally stranded in the ASL area, but you must not legally cross either line against red. Pedal cycles can cross the first against red, not the second.
vonhosen said:
Flat in Fifth said:
So how will the law work when fines are imposed for vehicles encroaching on advance stop line area?
It isn't an offence to be stopped in the area, it is to cross the first line against red in order to do so.
TfL iirc have proposed they they intend/would like to prosecute drivers for offences where they encroach in any way on the advance stop line area which I take to mean the cyclist box.
Seemed to me that there is a potential paradoxical situation, most likely in slow moving traffic.
First stop line crossed legally, yet it would be illegal to cross advance stop line. Yet also illegal ref TfL proposal to stand in ASLA.
Not sure how the law & road markings would work. Maybe have to make the ASLA part of the YBJ?
Flat in Fifth said:
Not sure how the law & road markings would work. Maybe have to make the ASLA part of the YBJ?
Wouldn't that also prevent bikes from stopping in it?!(I am assuming that all the cyclists who ride straight through red lights I've stopped my push bike at suddenly start giving a damn about the law
)vonhosen said:
defblade said:
Just watched last night's Traffic Cops (what I recorded) and wondered about the lady given a FPN for driving through a red light.
The approach to the lights was 2 lanes, and she was in the left hand lane, turning left. The right hand lane was completely normal, with a stop line by the lights, just where you'd expect. The left hand lane also had a stop line by the lights, in line with the RHL's one, but in this case it was the advanced stop line in a large cyclists' box. The back of the box, as you'd imagine, was another stop line.
As I understand it, the cycle box and ASL only apply to bikes, and a vechile is not allowed to stop in the box - the vehicle stop line is the back line of the box.
The reason for the post is that the in-car video clearly shows her going over the back line of the box on amber - at which point if I understand it right, she pretty much had to carry on or she'd have had to stop in the box. (BTW, I know she was a dozy driver who took a few goes before she even noticed the marked car with blues and twos on, and she almost certainly could have stopped behind the vehicle stop line if she'd've been paying any attention......)
Anyway, over to Von
You must not cross the advance line against red, if you cross it on amber you must not pass the stop line (proper) against red.The approach to the lights was 2 lanes, and she was in the left hand lane, turning left. The right hand lane was completely normal, with a stop line by the lights, just where you'd expect. The left hand lane also had a stop line by the lights, in line with the RHL's one, but in this case it was the advanced stop line in a large cyclists' box. The back of the box, as you'd imagine, was another stop line.
As I understand it, the cycle box and ASL only apply to bikes, and a vechile is not allowed to stop in the box - the vehicle stop line is the back line of the box.
The reason for the post is that the in-car video clearly shows her going over the back line of the box on amber - at which point if I understand it right, she pretty much had to carry on or she'd have had to stop in the box. (BTW, I know she was a dozy driver who took a few goes before she even noticed the marked car with blues and twos on, and she almost certainly could have stopped behind the vehicle stop line if she'd've been paying any attention......)
Anyway, over to Von
It is possible that you could end up legally stranded in the ASL area, but you must not legally cross either line against red. Pedal cycles can cross the first against red, not the second.
paulsm said:
7db said:
The cycle stop line takes over from the car stop line if the car has passed the car stop line. BOTH stop lines apply to cars. Just the advanced one for cycles.
so there is no law concerning a car stopping in the bike part?Flat in Fifth said:
paulsm said:
7db said:
The cycle stop line takes over from the car stop line if the car has passed the car stop line. BOTH stop lines apply to cars. Just the advanced one for cycles.
so there is no law concerning a car stopping in the bike part?Jonny_uk said:
She needed a FPN for being "Dozy in control of a vehicle" and "Unable to notic 100db of siren and flashing strobe behind"
It is not against the law not to notice the Police car. Are you sure it had it's siren on? It couldn't have been very dangerous as the Police car followed her straight away past the red light with IIRC no blues on at that stage.I think on the scale of 1 - 10 of passing red lights it was down at 1-2. It was worthy of a harsh talking to no more.
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