8.30 tonight Panorama - DNA Database

[Sheriff JWPepper]

Title says it all.

Heads up team. BBC1 8.30

Talk later.

[Yoda954]

FishFace said:

Yes can't wait.

THIS IS THE LAST STRAW - THIS COUNTRY IS GOING TO THE DOGS - IT'S LIKE HITLER WAS AROUND - 1984!! - THIS GOVERNMENT ARE COMMUNISTS etc.

Oh dear...I think the boy's lost it

[sjwb]

Never mind about that, isn't Nigella on? Rubs kness like dirty old man.

[DucatiGary]

we all know what happens.

scare stories why EVERYONE should have DNA samples taken.

like the old "imagine if it was you child/wife/parents/ (delete where appropriate) that was hit by a speeding car"

[Sheriff JWPepper]

sjwb said:

Never mind about that, isn't Nigella on? Rubs kness like dirty old man.

Settle down at the back. Don't distract the monkeys.

[TPS]

sjwb said:

Never mind about that, isn't Nigella on? Rubs kness like dirty old man.

[WildCat]

FishFace said:

Yes can't wait.

THIS IS THE LAST STRAW - THIS COUNTRY IS GOING TO THE DOGS - IT'S LIKE HITLER WAS AROUND - 1984!! - THIS GOVERNMENT ARE COMMUNISTS etc.

I am fundamentally against this. It not that I have nothing to hide. But DNA ist like fingerprints: it ist not the end in itself - it just provide some clues which may not prove guilt at all. Some of this ist as circumstantial as fingerprints at scene of an incident once were.

You policemen still have to excercise "ze leetull grrrey cells". Ist "elementary - lieber Watson"

Besides - none of us are "!without sin" as Bible keep telling us . We are fundamentally flawed with a penchant towards temptation for things a bit "naughty" . Fortunately, most of us have self-dsicipline und are basically decently minded civilised beings. The handful who are flawed throughout .. they also silly recidivists who view "a jail term as an occupational hazard" anyway..

But .. we do not need DNA to this extent. Too much information hinder rather than help. By the time the computer turn up the DNA profile of prime und very nasty suspect .. he vanish. Also .. if you are Mr Big und wish to carry out a crime.. I think they would probably invest in surgical/research coveralls/masks etc...

Also .. samples as we are led to believe from various dubious press leaks from a high profile "never off the front pages" current case .. they not exactly 100% in proving very much. - though quality of the reporting also doubtful here as no two journalese accounts of this now international mystery support the other versions. So DNA? Pah! It not the foolproof "prove all beyond doubt" folk think it to be.

A policeman still has to do his brainywork, intellectual sleuthing to find out means, motive, manner, method, opportunity to do the crime und blow apart the alibi into mere whisps of vivid criminal imagination.

I think I am saying we need policemen who are capable of professional intellect und judgement to cop real criminals just as much as we need these same types to spot truly dangerous drivers und separate their threat to safety from the odd blippy micro-second of an ephemeral error.

I dare say similar arguments occur when they discover we all have a unique fingerprint.

[WildCat]

FishFace said:

I'm against everyone having to give it. I don't have a problem with how it is.

Ach.
Liebchen

. that OK.

But I think part of it ist.. we give DNA as victim of crime.. as suspect of a crime. This stay on record "just in case". This appear to be "forever". I think then .. it should be subject to "Limitations Act". I think perhaps 6 years of blame free life style warrant annihilation of all records. If a victim of a crime .. this should be more immediate .. say .. for argument sake within .. um .. 24 month? I am sure some will think more immediate. I am trying to be fair minded here und also provoke a sensible discussion too.

[sultanbrown]

FishFace said:

Yes can't wait.

THIS IS THE LAST STRAW - THIS COUNTRY IS GOING TO THE DOGS - IT'S LIKE HITLER WAS AROUND - 1984!! - THIS GOVERNMENT ARE COMMUNISTS etc.

I don't remember Hitler being around in 1984.

[Sheriff JWPepper]

I'm told it's a book.

Edited by Sheriff JWPepper on Monday 24th September 22:59

[Bing o]

Sheriff JWPepper said:

I'm told it's a book. :P

Hitler was? He wrote some diaries didn't he?

[mr motor]

I can of course see a flaw in this cunning police and nanny government state DNA plan, and joking apart, it's a way to make a fortune for the right individual...

DNA spray

As collected from thousands of individuals, and combined into a very unique* mind-boggling pool of DNA for all savour (*each bottle being guaranteed to be different)!

Spray it in your home, your car, and your clothes, swap it with your friends bottle...

X marks the spot!

Remember, you read it here first

[Sheriff JWPepper]

Bing o said:

Sheriff JWPepper said:

I'm told it's a book.

Hitler was? He wrote some diaries didn't he?

Apparently he struggled a bit with his book?

Edited by Sheriff JWPepper on Monday 24th September 23:18

[Bing o]

Sheriff JWPepper said:

Bing o said:

Sheriff JWPepper said:

I'm told it's a book.

Hitler was? He wrote some diaries didn't he?

Apparently he struggled a bit with his book?

Edited by Sheriff JWPepper on Monday 24th September 23:18

That's the problem with ghost writers....

[Peter Ward]

mr motor said:

I can of course see a flaw in this cunning police and nanny government state DNA plan, and joking apart, it's a way to make a fortune for the right individual...

DNA spray

As collected from thousands of individuals, and combined into a very unique* mind-boggling pool of DNA for all savour (*each bottle being guaranteed to be different)!

Spray it in your home, your car, and your clothes, swap it with your friends bottle...

X marks the spot!

Remember, you read it here first

I recall reading as part of the McCann search that if a criminal shakes hands with you they then have enough of your DNA on them that it could be found at the crime-scene. That's how reliable DNA evidence is. So yes, let's have the new perfume by Chanel: "DNA for men". Also comes as a handcream and bodyspray. That should cover everything you need .

[streaky]

sultanbrown said:

FishFace said:

Yes can't wait.

THIS IS THE LAST STRAW - THIS COUNTRY IS GOING TO THE DOGS - IT'S LIKE HITLER WAS AROUND - 1984!! - THIS GOVERNMENT ARE COMMUNISTS etc.

I don't remember Hitler being around in 1984.

Living with Elvis on the (dark side of the) moon, as I recall the headline - Streaky

[bluepolarbear]

FishFace said:

I'm against everyone having to give it. I don't have a problem with how it is.

What's your rationale? I would have said that regardless as to where you sit the current position is the least defensible position

[Derek Smith]

DNA isn't like fingerprints. Fingerprints are just a pattern, about as random as you can get in the natural world, whereas DNA is specific. Very much so.

The problem with a DNA database is that sooner or later it will go up for sale and insurance companies will buy it. As soon as some scientist reckons that this or that line is a marker for a certain disease, up will go your premium - if you could get anyone to cover you.

So, if someone has a minor congenital disorder, their legacy to their sons or daughters will be a risk plus higher premiums.

Let the government have access to something and they will use it for their own ends.

I know there are positives. In my force area we got a chap for a rape 12 years previously. It's almost like magic. He was a suspect at the time but everything was circumstantial. The victim couldn't positively identify him, although she said he looked like the rapist. When the success rate in rapes is so low, this sort of result really is a gift.

But everyone on a database? No.

[Flat in Fifth]

Especially when all other countries the DNA database is limited to convicted criminals, I think (not seen Pannyrama) that also applies to Scotland.

So DC Pedro del Fuego in Iberia looks up the DNA database under some EU agreement, finds record for Johnny Englander who was arrested on suss for some offence but was cleared of any possible involvement after less than q5 minutes investigation. Johnny E has led a Persillife before during and after the incident but his DNA remains on the database, what is Pedro del Fuego going to assume about JE? That he's a scrote of course.

Pedro del Fuego will conveniently ignore, and allow the court to ignore, that the DNA 'match' (match in ' ' because it isn't actually a match ) might also throw up a large number of other EU citizens who are NOT on their country databases.

Meanwhile certain members of the establishment and the forces of law and order continue to con the public that DNA testing is the silver bullet that it clearly isn't.

Irrelevant to me as my DNA and dabs are already on file, no I wasn't arrested, genuine reasons for elimination.

[bluepolarbear]

Derek Smith said:

The problem with a DNA database is that sooner or later it will go up for sale and insurance companies will buy it. As soon as some scientist reckons that this or that line is a marker for a certain disease, up will go your premium - if you could get anyone to cover you.

It all ready (potentially) has. The database has already been opened to over 20 research projects from private companies - problem is they are deemed classified - who knows what they are or what they covered. We do know that some of those projects relate to trying to determing things like ethincity from the DNA.