Do you have to be hit for assult charge?

[Russian Rocket]

I was assaulted by a patient last Monday. He had failed to attend court last week and wanted me to backdate a sick note to get him off. When I refused to do this he picked up the BP machine on my desk and swung it at me. I took action to avoid been hit and then pinned him against the wall, a couple male patients in the waiting room then threw hit out the building.

Police have taken a statement from me. Apparently because he didn't actually hit me this is not assault. When I mentioned he spat at me on the way out they then said that was assault.

Seems odd to me. Personally I was much more upset by the physical side of it. Being spat at whilst not present didn't bother me as much, but then I have been covered in much worse in my career.

[Jeremy Kyle]

if i was you mate i would forget it. is it worth the hassle? i think you have pissed him off more by not giving him a sick note then you ever could with a poor assualt charge. im sure he will get whats coming to him soon!

[Chrispy Porker]

Sounds like attempting to pervert the course of justice to me.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Russian Rocket said:

I was assaulted by a patient last Monday. He had failed to attend court last week and wanted me to backdate a sick note to get him off. When I refused to do this he picked up the BP machine on my desk and swung it at me. I took action to avoid been hit and then pinned him against the wall, a couple male patients in the waiting room then threw hit out the building.

Police have taken a statement from me. Apparently because he didn't actually hit me this is not assault. When I mentioned he spat at me on the way out they then said that was assault.

Seems odd to me. Personally I was much more upset by the physical side of it. Being spat at whilst not present didn't bother me as much, but then I have been covered in much worse in my career.

Going by the letter of the law, no, you don't have to be struck, and the patient's initial actions could constitute an assault. The Police, however, have to take into account the CPS charging standards, under which there would be no likelyhood of securing a charge of assault.

Spitting, however, with all it's associated infection risks, would fall withing their charging standards for a common assault.

He could, however, have committed an offence under section 3 of the public order act (affray), as this can be committed anywhere, and not just in a public place.

Affray is defined as "a person has used or threatened unlawful violence towards another and his conduct is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety".

[Jasandjules]

No, you don't have to be hit at all. Simply the fear of violence is sufficient.

If you are actually hit then it is battery effectively, and if there is a bruise or breakage of the skin, GBH.

[stuttgartmetal]

Get a grip, he nearly hit you , ooh ouch.
I'd have thought you could comprehend that patients present themselves in different ways, and that you should be able to professionally cope with these.
Involving the Police ?
Sorry mate, you sound like a right lemon.

[R_U_LOCAL]

stuttgartmetal said:

Get a grip, he nearly hit you , ooh ouch.
I'd have thought you could comprehend that patients present themselves in different ways, and that you should be able to professionally cope with these.
Involving the Police ?
Sorry mate, you sound like a right lemon.

Are you suggesting that healthcare professionals should tolerate violence in the workplace?

[Jasandjules]

stuttgartmetal said:

Get a grip, he nearly hit you , ooh ouch.

And how would you feel if he had drawn a gun, but not actually shot him? Ooh, get a grip, he didn't actually shoot you etc..?!?!

Feck that, scum who act like this against Doctors should IMHO be refused treatment, feck 'em, let them die in agony outside A&E for all I care.

[Davi]

stuttgartmetal said:

Get a grip, he nearly hit you , ooh ouch.
I'd have thought you could comprehend that patients present themselves in different ways, and that you should be able to professionally cope with these.
Involving the Police ?
Sorry mate, you sound like a right lemon.

Do what? Just because the attacker was a crap one, they should get away with it? It's because people will no longer stand up to this sort of thing that it's becoming so rife.

[Chrispy Porker]

Or help get him done for FTA, ATPCJ whatever.
More than one way to skin a cat.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Chrispy Porker said:

Or help get him done for FTA, ATPCJ whatever.
More than one way to skin a cat.

How many ways are there to skin a cat?

[stuttgartmetal]

Jasandjules said:

stuttgartmetal said:

Get a grip, he nearly hit you , ooh ouch.

And how would you feel if he had drawn a gun, but not actually shot him? Ooh, get a grip, he didn't actually shoot you etc..?!?!

Feck that, scum who act like this against Doctors should IMHO be refused treatment, feck 'em, let them die in agony outside A&E for all I care.

Said by someone who truly doesn't know about healthcare at all.
Patients need help, thats why they come to see you.
If they're really upset you just chuck them out?

Really ?

Id suggest you sit down for this one.
Upset and mentally imbalanced patients sometimes present themselves out of character, and need help. How you professionally deal with this, depends on how good your skills are.

Ringing the Police, oh really.

[R_U_LOCAL]

stuttgartmetal said:

Jasandjules said:

stuttgartmetal said:

Get a grip, he nearly hit you , ooh ouch.

And how would you feel if he had drawn a gun, but not actually shot him? Ooh, get a grip, he didn't actually shoot you etc..?!?!

Feck that, scum who act like this against Doctors should IMHO be refused treatment, feck 'em, let them die in agony outside A&E for all I care.

Said by someone who truly doesn't know about healthcare at all.
Patients need help, thats why they come to see you.
If they're really upset you just chuck them out?

Really ?

Id suggest you sit down for this one.
Upset and mentally imbalanced patients sometimes present themselves out of character, and need help. How you professionally deal with this, depends on how good your skills are.

Ringing the Police, oh really.

You're taking the mick aren't you?

Aren't you?

[Davi]

R_U_LOCAL said:

stuttgartmetal said:

Jasandjules said:

stuttgartmetal said:

Get a grip, he nearly hit you , ooh ouch.

And how would you feel if he had drawn a gun, but not actually shot him? Ooh, get a grip, he didn't actually shoot you etc..?!?!

Feck that, scum who act like this against Doctors should IMHO be refused treatment, feck 'em, let them die in agony outside A&E for all I care.

Said by someone who truly doesn't know about healthcare at all.
Patients need help, thats why they come to see you.
If they're really upset you just chuck them out?

Really ?

Id suggest you sit down for this one.
Upset and mentally imbalanced patients sometimes present themselves out of character, and need help. How you professionally deal with this, depends on how good your skills are.

Ringing the Police, oh really.

You're taking the mick aren't you?

Aren't you?

nah, he's right, I retract my previous statement. A bloke tries to assault a doc because doc refused to falsify documents that would exonerate the bloke of blame for missing a court hearing... obviously a totally trust worthy character who was maybe shunned by his mother, not given the breast at birth so to speak - all he needed was to sit on the good doctors knee for a bit and everything would have been OK again

[Chrispy Porker]

R_U_LOCAL said:

Chrispy Porker said:

Or help get him done for FTA, ATPCJ whatever.
More than one way to skin a cat.

How many ways are there to skin a cat?

I can think of several ways to legitimately p*ss on this blokes chips.

Then I'd cross him off my patient list.

[stuttgartmetal]

R_U_LOCAL said:

You're taking the mick aren't you?

Aren't you?

OP wouldn't write a sick note ?
The patient sounds like first off he's under a lot of stress, and that he's been pre judged.
The OP should have handled this in a way that isn't confontational.

There are plenty of options available to the op regarding imbalabnced and upset patients. Throwing him out really helped didn't it ?
Sounds like the patient needed help, and it also sounded like the op didn't help at all.

Edited by stuttgartmetal on Thursday 27th September 10:57

[Davi]

stuttgartmetal said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

You're taking the mick aren't you?

Aren't you?

OP wouldn't write a sick note ?
The patient sounds like first off he's under a lot of stress, and that he's been pre judged.
The OP should have handled this in a way that isn't confontational.

There are plenty of options available to the op regarding imbalabnced and upset patients. Throwing him out really helped didn't it ?
Sounds like the patient needed help, and it also sounded like the op didn't help at all.

Lemon.

he needed the doc to falsify documents, relating to legal proceedings. Yes I would imagine he is stressed, he's just found out that he can't lie his way out of the trouble he's got himself into.

[R_U_LOCAL]

stuttgartmetal said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

You're taking the mick aren't you?

Aren't you?

OP wouldn't write a sick note ?
The patient sounds like first off he's under a lot of stress, and that he's been pre judged.
The OP should have handled this in a way that isn't confontational.

There are plenty of options available to the op regarding imbalabnced and upset patients. Throwing him out really helped didn't it ?
Sounds like the patient needed help, and it also sounded like the op didn't help at all.

Lemon.

Have you actually read the original post?

The patient wanted a retrospective sicknote as an excuse for failing to turn up to court. The doctor (quite rightly) refused to supply one and the patient became violent.

No mention of mental illness, and the only "help" the patient required was for the doctor to lie on his behalf.

I don't see how the OP could have handled the situation any differently.

How, prey, would you have handled an angry man trying to hit you with a blood pressure moniter?

[stuttgartmetal]

Davi said:

he needed the doc to falsify documents, relating to legal proceedings. Yes I would imagine he is stressed, he's just found out that he can't lie his way out of the trouble he's got himself into.

Theres two sides to every story fella.
Backdating the sick note isn't the help this bloke needs, and the op should have the professional skills to handle this situation calmly, and get to the bottom of the problem.
Patients come for help, it seems from the op's first post this has gone unnoticed.

I seriously doubt if its as cut and dried as the op put out, I would imagine if we looked as a fly on the wall, it would be much more intricate.

[Davi]

stuttgartmetal said:

Davi said:

he needed the doc to falsify documents, relating to legal proceedings. Yes I would imagine he is stressed, he's just found out that he can't lie his way out of the trouble he's got himself into.

Theres two sides to every story fella.
Backdating the sick note isn't the help this bloke needs, and the op should have the professional skills to handle this situation calmly, and get to the bottom of the problem.
Patients come for help, it seems from the op's first post this has gone unnoticed.

I seriously doubt if its as cut and dried as the op put out, I would imagine if we looked as a fly on the wall, it would be much more intricate.

I seriously doubt it as well - but as the OP is the doctor acting, I should think he'd have a damn sight better background history on the chap than you or I, and had the patient had a history of mental illness I expect the post may have been somewhat different... if posted at all.