Parking Ticket - over the white lines

[RaeB]

I received a £25 parking ticket this afternoon for "not parking correctly within the markings of the bay space". This was in an NCP carpark, with loads of free spaces (even empty floors). Yes I parked over the white lines, my total parking fee was £3 for the time I was there and I'd be happy to pay the £3 for the bay next to me, but have been fined £25 if I pay within 14 days, then it increases to £50! I would love to say that I'd had to park this way because of another driver, but my boyfriend was also in his car and we both parked 'badly' so that nobody would door our cars. So we're facing £50-100 fines for taking up 3 bays with 2 cars.

Anybody taken on NCP for this sort of thing? How did it go? I guess there should be warning signs somewhere telling us what the rules are and what the penalty is. It seems a bit steep fining us both, but there you go. Any advice. I've already considered nuking them from space and the other half considered kicking him in the head but stopped himself just in time!

[L14MNV]

Where the pay and display box is, they usually cover points on there about bad parking, fines etc. I don't think there is a great deal you can do in all fairness. You could phone there Office and explain that the carpark was empty and you weren't long. Also explain that you've had your doors pranged in the past and thats why you did it? Or say, the car next to you was parked badly so you had no choice? I think, id just pay it and save any hassle

[andmole]

L14MNV said:

Where the pay and display box is, they usually cover points on there about bad parking, fines etc. I don't think there is a great deal you can do in all fairness. You could phone there Office and explain that the carpark was empty and you weren't long. Also explain that you've had your doors pranged in the past and thats why you did it? Or say, the car next to you was parked badly so you had no choice? I think, id just pay it and save any hassle

boocks, do everything (legally) that you can do to avoid this unjust and oppressive fine. Check the terms and conditions of the car park first, find out if there is an appeals procedure. Measure the size of the bays, I don't know if there are legal minimums for these, but it might be worth investigating. Maybe your car wouldn't fit, allowing both doors to open, within the confines of the bays.

[L14MNV]

andmole said:

L14MNV said:

Where the pay and display box is, they usually cover points on there about bad parking, fines etc. I don't think there is a great deal you can do in all fairness. You could phone there Office and explain that the carpark was empty and you weren't long. Also explain that you've had your doors pranged in the past and thats why you did it? Or say, the car next to you was parked badly so you had no choice? I think, id just pay it and save any hassle

boocks, do everything (legally) that you can do to avoid this unjust and oppressive fine. Check the terms and conditions of the car park first, find out if there is an appeals procedure. Measure the size of the bays, I don't know if there are legal minimums for these, but it might be worth investigating. Maybe your car wouldn't fit, allowing both doors to open, within the confines of the bays.

I think that by the time you've messed about, you'd just be better off paying the fine. It’s far easier than pretending that you’re living in communist Russia and your human rights are being infringed.

[tvrgit]

andmole said:

L14MNV said:

Where the pay and display box is, they usually cover points on there about bad parking, fines etc. I don't think there is a great deal you can do in all fairness. You could phone there Office and explain that the carpark was empty and you weren't long. Also explain that you've had your doors pranged in the past and thats why you did it? Or say, the car next to you was parked badly so you had no choice? I think, id just pay it and save any hassle

boocks, do everything (legally) that you can do to avoid this unjust and oppressive fine. Check the terms and conditions of the car park first, find out if there is an appeals procedure. Measure the size of the bays, I don't know if there are legal minimums for these, but it might be worth investigating. Maybe your car wouldn't fit, allowing both doors to open, within the confines of the bays.

no parking space allows your doors to open within the bay. not relevant.

there are no legal minimum bay sizes - there are guidelines though - 2.4 x 4.8. Smaller bays are not illegal. Legally, if the bay is too small, don't park in it.

NCP are usually pretty good at signs, it's what they do - "parking within the bays" will be in there so that they don't lose revenue by having half-empty bays - if everybody did that the car park could be half-empty and yet no more spaces. They'll have that covered.

Sounds like there is not a lot you can probably do.

[Timsta]

As with all private parking companies, they can only sue for losses. So, as they dodn't actually lose any custom because of your bad parking tell em you'll see them in court.

Penalties in private contracts are not lawful.

[tribbles]

I was thinking last night could you pay for 2 spaces and use them up in order not to get some numpty slam their doors into yours? You'd display both tickets in the windscreen.

[TheCarpetCleaner]

Park within the white lines or park somewhere else if someone else has parked badly?

[mph999]

andmole said:

L14MNV said:

Where the pay and display box is, they usually cover points on there about bad parking, fines etc. I don't think there is a great deal you can do in all fairness. You could phone there Office and explain that the carpark was empty and you weren't long. Also explain that you've had your doors pranged in the past and thats why you did it? Or say, the car next to you was parked badly so you had no choice? I think, id just pay it and save any hassle

boocks, do everything (legally) that you can do to avoid this unjust and oppressive fine. Check the terms and conditions of the car park first, find out if there is an appeals procedure. Measure the size of the bays, I don't know if there are legal minimums for these, but it might be worth investigating. Maybe your car wouldn't fit, allowing both doors to open, within the confines of the bays.

There is a legal minimum, which if not met, means from a legal point of view, you're not parked in a space ...

[BOF]

"" but my boyfriend was also in his car and we both parked 'badly' so that nobody would door our cars. So we're facing £50-100 fines for taking up 3 bays with 2 cars.""

Sorry Lass,

But I think you were asking for it...if we all parked 'badly'...deliberately...parking would get even worse than it is?

BOF.

[CommanderJameson]

RaeB said:

I received a £25 parking ticket this afternoon for "not parking correctly within the markings of the bay space". This was in an NCP carpark, with loads of free spaces (even empty floors). Yes I parked over the white lines, my total parking fee was £3 for the time I was there and I'd be happy to pay the £3 for the bay next to me, but have been fined £25 if I pay within 14 days, then it increases to £50! I would love to say that I'd had to park this way because of another driver, but my boyfriend was also in his car and we both parked 'badly' so that nobody would door our cars. So we're facing £50-100 fines for taking up 3 bays with 2 cars.

Anybody taken on NCP for this sort of thing? How did it go? I guess there should be warning signs somewhere telling us what the rules are and what the penalty is. It seems a bit steep fining us both, but there you go. Any advice. I've already considered nuking them from space and the other half considered kicking him in the head but stopped himself just in time!

Harsh but fair:

You used 3 bays and paid for 2. (Or did you? Did you buy 3 tickets and display them?)

Tough noogies, say I.

[WildCat]

CommanderJameson said:

RaeB said:

I received a £25 parking ticket this afternoon for "not parking correctly within the markings of the bay space". This was in an NCP carpark, with loads of free spaces (even empty floors). Yes I parked over the white lines, my total parking fee was £3 for the time I was there and I'd be happy to pay the £3 for the bay next to me, but have been fined £25 if I pay within 14 days, then it increases to £50! I would love to say that I'd had to park this way because of another driver, but my boyfriend was also in his car and we both parked 'badly' so that nobody would door our cars. So we're facing £50-100 fines for taking up 3 bays with 2 cars.

Anybody taken on NCP for this sort of thing? How did it go? I guess there should be warning signs somewhere telling us what the rules are and what the penalty is. It seems a bit steep fining us both, but there you go. Any advice. I've already considered nuking them from space and the other half considered kicking him in the head but stopped himself just in time!

Harsh but fair:

You used 3 bays and paid for 2. (Or did you? Did you buy 3 tickets and display them?)

Tough noogies, say I.

True. I recall liebster Tony Rec (have not seen him for a while.. I trust he keep well. All my und respect to him if he still read. I miss his posts anyway. ) telling us about a "to-do" at the Cockermouth Sainsbury. This car park run by Allerdale Council. They have right jobsworthys there anyway.

Anyway I recall Tony visit for holiday when his son months old. He park up in bay by the corner. It not a Mama/toddler or disabled bay. He park in the corner where it impossible for another car to park. I know this car park He over the bay line into the hatch mark. He do this deliberately because of pram or buggy need. (You do need a bit of space - especially when leaning into car to get tot out of baby seat too. I nearly always park in deserted area of car park. It so much easier with kids .) Anyway - he get a ticket for being over the bay line all the same - even though no car could possibly manage to park in the hatched area.. not even a Smart car und even a moped or bicycle would have been "challenged" here

But .. if you can prove the bays not big enough for your car to park.. you have some ground to appeal as you pay for something which not really do what it say on tin per the Sales of Goods und Services Acts . If standard size for average car bay space.. then you have to accept that chap park in bay next you does not want a ding in his precious gleaming metalwork either und will take utmost care not to ding either car.

I admit that car parks seem to get smaller as cars get wider und longer though.

[rabw]

I remember a similar thread a while ago. When you use an NCP car park the contract is between the driver and NCP. Say you don't know who was driving and I think they'll drop it.

[RaeB]

Thanks guys for all your posts, interesting and diverse as I would expect from PH. I would willingly pay for the extra bay, but we were in a pay as you leave rather than a pay and display (£3 to stop my P&J getting doored would be perfectly acceptable). Guess the answer there is to go and get another ticket, but as you take it with you and pay on your way back into the car park, that wouldn't be the answer as the cars would still have been ticketed and we would still have to provide the NCP with proof, so we'd be in the same position as we are now.

We cannot find anything on display in the carpark or within the T&Cs that states you must park within the whitelines or you will face a £x penalty and if I'd missed the sign telling me of the penalties, I'd agree it's my fault. To be fair the sizing of the bays nearly meets the guidelines, but because of a barrier and a concrete pillar in each bay, they come up short.

I'm not sure where we stand that they don't notify anyone of their rules and penalties, but for the sake of the cost of a letter, it's worth a try. Anyways, I'm off abroad on business tomorrow so the B/F will be responding. I'll let you know how we get on.

[tvrgit]

mph999 said:

There is a legal minimum, which if not met, means from a legal point of view, you're not parked in a space ...

where?

[andy400]

Bloody hell! As if NCP didn't already have a licence to print money!

[H_Kan]

Not sure if it is, but if the point about private parties only being able to recover a loss is true then deffo contest it. As most they have lost £3 that somebody could have paid for that space for that time.

Better still, if it isn't displayed anywhere then you aren't tied by that term- so just ignore it or tell them to stuff it!

[Parrot of Doom]

www.pepipoo.com forums.

Its contract law, its an unfair penalty, they can't enforce it, they don't know the identity of the driver, they can't prove you accepted their terms and conditions, etc etc.

The last time I parked in an NCP, the T&C were at the ticket machine on the entry gate. The print was newspaper artice text sized, and a good 10 minute read. There is absolutely no way a driver could be expected to read it.

[JustinP1]

Parrot of Doom said:

www.pepipoo.com forums.

Its contract law, its an unfair penalty, they can't enforce it, they don't know the identity of the driver, they can't prove you accepted their terms and conditions, etc etc.

The last time I parked in an NCP, the T&C were at the ticket machine on the entry gate. The print was newspaper artice text sized, and a good 10 minute read. There is absolutely no way a driver could be expected to read it.

Agreed. 2 ways forward:

1) Ignore it. Slim chance NCP will go to court over it - if they do they cannot prove who the driver was.

2) Write to them and tell them them that legally they have no right to enforce a 'penalty' in lieu of damages which is not relative to the actual loss. Send them a cheque for £3 as 'full and final settlement' - which is their actual maximum potential loss.

The second one leaves you perfectly legal, right and proper.

[CommanderJameson]

RaeB said:

Thanks guys for all your posts, interesting and diverse as I would expect from PH. I would willingly pay for the extra bay, but we were in a pay as you leave rather than a pay and display (£3 to stop my P&J getting doored would be perfectly acceptable). Guess the answer there is to go and get another ticket, but as you take it with you and pay on your way back into the car park, that wouldn't be the answer as the cars would still have been ticketed and we would still have to provide the NCP with proof, so we'd be in the same position as we are now.

We cannot find anything on display in the carpark or within the T&Cs that states you must park within the whitelines or you will face a £x penalty and if I'd missed the sign telling me of the penalties, I'd agree it's my fault. To be fair the sizing of the bays nearly meets the guidelines, but because of a barrier and a concrete pillar in each bay, they come up short.

I'm not sure where we stand that they don't notify anyone of their rules and penalties, but for the sake of the cost of a letter, it's worth a try. Anyways, I'm off abroad on business tomorrow so the B/F will be responding. I'll let you know how we get on.

1. If you couldn't pay for 3 bays, what gave you the right to take them?
2. If your car is that important to you, perhaps getting a £500 shed to do the shopping in might be an idea
3. You haven't got a leg to stand on. You were caught bang to rights. There's a separate argument about the legality of the penalty charge
4. You could have always parked somewhere else