Points removal from licence

[Fats25]

After a "bad day at the office" on Saturday (see Biker Banter for more details) - I would like to get all expired points removed from my licence. I know this means giving the DVLA more unnecessary cash - but I would like my paper licence to look as squeaky clean as possible.

I have the following on my licence:-

Date of offence - 4/10/03
Date of conviction - 7/5/04
Points/Code - 6/SP30

Date of offence - 17/10/03
Date of conviction - 17/10/03 (fixed penalty)
Points/Code - 3/SP30

Obviously the 17th is on Wedndesday and this will be 4 years so I understand if I send my licence off, then these will be removed before licence is returned.

However the question is with the first offence. Will the points be removed because it is over 4 years since date of offence, or do I need to wait until 7/5/08 - i.e. date of conviction?

I have trawled the DVLA website and cannot see anything on there to state which it is, and as you will know it is impossible to speak to anyone at DVLA that understands what they do!

Any facts would be most appreciated.

[SS2.]

SP30 ? They can be removed from your licence after 4 years from date of offence.

[Jeremy Kyle]

yeh I would also like to know this one. I have heard people say both offence and conviction, so its very confusing. Also is it the same rules for insurance? do the insurance companies want to know 5 years from offence or conviction?

[Fats25]

Jeremy Kyle said:

yeh I would also like to know this one. I have heard people say both offence and conviction, so its very confusing. Also is it the same rules for insurance? do the insurance companies want to know 5 years from offence or conviction?

I know the answer to this one. It depends on the insurer!

Some want to know conviction, some want to know offence date, and some want to know both. It all depends on the parameters their modelling uses to generate quotes. Different companies use different parameters. (I know this as I worked on the Admiral system many years ago).

[Fetchez la vache]

Seems as though most use 5 years from the offense, though at this point your license is clean, as SP30's are removed after 4 years.

Thieving bar stewards

[mark69sheer]

I guess you want the points removed so you can claim a clean licence as part of your court defence.

Sadly despite the points being removed the beak will still know about them.

Also for insurance most ask for convictions within the last 5 years ,

Edited by mark69sheer on Monday 15th October 11:34

[SS2.]

Jeremy Kyle said:

Also is it the same rules for insurance? do the insurance companies want to know 5 years from offence or conviction?

Whether its from date of offence or from date of conviction depends upon the nature of the offence..

[Fats25]

mark69sheer said:

I guess you want the points removed so you can claim a clean licence as part of your court defence.

Sadly despite the points being removed the beak will still know about them.

Also for insurance most ask for convictions within the last 5 years ,

Edited by mark69sheer on Monday 15th October 11:34

If the court do their due diligence and look into the DVLA computer records then they will most certainly find them. Or will they? Perhaps after 4 years the offences are wiped from DVLA system? I honestly have no idea of what the rules are with regards to traffic offences/data protection etc etc.

However if they have my licence (which I know I will be required to provide before a court date), and I have not done anything to have them removed then they will definitely see my previous points when they see the paper licence, and I would suspect that this would prejudice my punishment.

I am just wanting to give myself the best chance that I can of getting a lenient sentence.

Edited to add - in the eyes of the law - my licence is clean - it is not a false claim!

Edited by Fats25 on Monday 15th October 11:48

[mark69sheer]

sadly your records won't be wiped of the records slate for a long while so the beak will know..

Criminal Records
A person's offence will still remain on the Police National Computer even after it has become spent - it will not be deleted. Broadly, according to the guidelines from the Association of Chief Police Officers, records of 'recordable' offences (i.e. offences which can be tried in the Crown Court, whether or not they are) should be deleted after 10 years, unless they show that the offender has 3 or more convictions for recordable offences (in which case the record will be kept for 20 years); has been given custodial sentences (in which case the record will be kept for life); has been convicted of indecency, sexual offences, violence, possession of Class A drugs, or trafficking in, importing of or supply of any drug (in which case the record will be kept for life); been found unfit to plead by reason of insanity, or has been sentenced under the Mental Health Acts (in which case the record will be kept for life); been convicted of an offence involving a child or vulnerable adult where the MO indicates that the person deliberately targets such people ( in which case the record will be kept for life).

I believe motoring offences are the only cases where the magistrate is able to see your previous record prior to deciding a penalty.

Edited by mark69sheer on Monday 15th October 12:05

[SS2.]

mark69sheer said:

Criminal Offences

A person's offence will still remain on the Police National Computer even after it has become spent..

But are you certain that minor motoring offences are recorded on the PNC ?

[mark69sheer]

SS2. said:

mark69sheer said:

Criminal Offences

A person's offence will still remain on the Police National Computer even after it has become spent..

But are you certain that minor motoring offences are recorded on the PNC ?

If you read the rehabilitation of offenders act it states clearly 'fines' as a definative category.

[url]
http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/rehabact.htm
[/url]

[Fats25]

SS2. said:

mark69sheer said:

Criminal Offences

A person's offence will still remain on the Police National Computer even after it has become spent..

But are you certain that minor motoring offences are recorded on the PNC ?

I do not know the answer.

However I would find it strange that after the police checked all of my details (one guy on the phone constantly, and the other checked with him before he let me go) - that he asked me if I had any points on my licence. Would you not have expected him to know this?

[SS2.]

Fats25 said:

SS2. said:

mark69sheer said:

Criminal Offences

A person's offence will still remain on the Police National Computer even after it has become spent..

But are you certain that minor motoring offences are recorded on the PNC ?

I do not know the answer.

AFAIK, minor (ie. non-recordable) motoring offences, such as those which do not involve a prison sentence or disqualification of licence, are not recorded on the Police National Computer..

Edited by SS2. on Monday 15th October 12:32

[DBSV8]

mark69sheer said:

I guess you want the points removed so you can claim a clean licence as part of your court defence.

Sadly despite the points being removed the beak will still know about them.

Also for insurance most ask for convictions within the last 5 years ,

Edited by mark69sheer on Monday 15th October 11:34

no ...as the points are spent they are not relevant and the court usher will simply state that you have a clean licence

[Fats25]

Thanks to everyone that has responded - providing the info is correct! I will be sending the licence off with the appropriate fee at the end of this week to get all points removed.

I shall expect to see a clean licence after this with no mention of either offences. I will let you know what I receive back from the DVLA.

I have to be honest even with the advice given, knowing the DVLA I expect the 3 pointer to have been removed, and the 6 pointer to stay on til May 08. I have never known them get anything correct in every case that I have had to deal with them!

Thanks

[SS2.]

Fats25 said:

Thanks to everyone that has responded - providing the info is correct!

DVLA - Endorsements must remain on a licence for 11 years from date of conviction if the offence is :-

* drinking/drugs and driving (shown on the licence as DR10, DR20, DR30 and DR80).
* causing death by careless driving whilst under the influence of drink/drugs (shown on the licence as CD40, CD50 and CD60).
* causing death by careless driving, then failing to provide a specimen for analysis (shown on the licence as CD70).

OR 4 years from date of conviction if the offence is as listed below :-

* reckless/dangerous driving (shown on the licence as DD40, DD60 and DD80),
* offences resulting in disqualification.
* disqualified from holding a full licence until a driving test has been passed.

OR 4 years from the date of offence in all other cases.

[Fats25]

SS2. said:

Fats25 said:

Thanks to everyone that has responded - providing the info is correct!

DVLA - Endorsements must remain on a licence for 11 years from date of conviction if the offence is :-

* drinking/drugs and driving (shown on the licence as DR10, DR20, DR30 and DR80).
* causing death by careless driving whilst under the influence of drink/drugs (shown on the licence as CD40, CD50 and CD60).
* causing death by careless driving, then failing to provide a specimen for analysis (shown on the licence as CD70).

OR 4 years from date of conviction if the offence is as listed below :-

* reckless/dangerous driving (shown on the licence as DD40, DD60 and DD80),
* offences resulting in disqualification.
* disqualified from holding a full licence until a driving test has been passed.

OR 4 years from the date of offence in all other cases.

Looks good to me! However I will let you know what happens in the real world!!

Thanks for your input - and for being better at finding you way round the DVLA website.

[Fats25]

I'm amazed!

Licence back today, and all more amazingly the correct info was on the licence, with correct licence categories and the points have been removed!

Lets hope the £22 is worth it when it comes to court......

[SS2.]

Fats25 said:

I'm amazed!

Licence back today, and all more amazingly the correct info was on the licence, with correct licence categories and the points have been removed!

Oh ye of little faith..

[EU_Foreigner]

When I had to change my Dutch license into a UK one, they gave me everything ... trucks, bikes the lot

I only had a car + trailer license before in NL