What is an acceptable level of death?
Discussion
A car is a ton of metal and glass, usually moving around at upto 80mph or so, and a lot faster at times. Every one of them is a potentially lethal weapon that. There are millions of them moving around the relatively confined space of the UK road network.
So it is entirely inevitable that they will occasionally crash. Isn't it? And it seems to be inevitable that some of these crashes will result in serious injury or death. Or am I over pessimistic? We obviously each accept the risk of death that driving brings for the benefits to our quality of life that it brings.
So what is an acceptable level of death from road accidents as a society? Must it be lower year on year? Should it be zero? Or do we accept a certain level of carnage that is the price of the benefits cars bring?
So it is entirely inevitable that they will occasionally crash. Isn't it? And it seems to be inevitable that some of these crashes will result in serious injury or death. Or am I over pessimistic? We obviously each accept the risk of death that driving brings for the benefits to our quality of life that it brings.
So what is an acceptable level of death from road accidents as a society? Must it be lower year on year? Should it be zero? Or do we accept a certain level of carnage that is the price of the benefits cars bring?
The number of road fatalities has been steady for a while. I think improvements come as much from vehicle technology as they do from road engineering and law enforcement.
There has to come a point where, as the OP says, you have to accept that 1 ton projectiles interfacing with each other and pedestrians, are going to produce casualty figures.
As far as I'm aware about 0.005% of the population are killed on the road each year, which isn't too bad in my opinion.
There has to come a point where, as the OP says, you have to accept that 1 ton projectiles interfacing with each other and pedestrians, are going to produce casualty figures.
As far as I'm aware about 0.005% of the population are killed on the road each year, which isn't too bad in my opinion.
The trouble I see with saying zero is that you are forever failing, and by continually striving for improvement you run the risk of stifling the thing altogether. We do to some extent deal with this question on an individual level every time we use the roads, knowing that there is a risk of death.
Shouldn't we be looking at this from another angle?
It isn't cars that kill it is the people that are in control (or not) said cars that are at fault.
Improve driving skills, educate to remove the 'lemming mindset' of today's rush everywhere motorist foster a better level of compliance with road traffic laws and regulations and we may just be onto something.
It isn't cars that kill it is the people that are in control (or not) said cars that are at fault.
Improve driving skills, educate to remove the 'lemming mindset' of today's rush everywhere motorist foster a better level of compliance with road traffic laws and regulations and we may just be onto something.
Of course we do.
The trouble is that unlike deciding to eat dodgy prawns or climbing up a ladder when pissed while you could die from both you will not affect anyone else.
Thats why i am all for road safety as opposed to arbitary rules and everyone taking driving seriously.
Some women see a car journey as a social experience , time to speak to their mates or play with their makeup.
Some guys are just knackered and falling asleep at the wheel but refusing to stop and rest out of bravado or ego.
Its not so much that Joe bloggs killed himself falling off the road. The answer to that would be silly Joe Bloggs.
But when Joe Bloggs kills himself and three innocent victims then you can see why the emphasis will remain.
Having said that the hospitals kill innocent victims everyday.
The trouble is that unlike deciding to eat dodgy prawns or climbing up a ladder when pissed while you could die from both you will not affect anyone else.
Thats why i am all for road safety as opposed to arbitary rules and everyone taking driving seriously.
Some women see a car journey as a social experience , time to speak to their mates or play with their makeup.
Some guys are just knackered and falling asleep at the wheel but refusing to stop and rest out of bravado or ego.
Its not so much that Joe bloggs killed himself falling off the road. The answer to that would be silly Joe Bloggs.
But when Joe Bloggs kills himself and three innocent victims then you can see why the emphasis will remain.
Having said that the hospitals kill innocent victims everyday.
Do we think it is possible that if road safety refereeing managed to maintain driver attitudes to risk (responsibility) at the same level, we could have a fatality chart tending towards zero at almost the same percentage reduction year on year, due to steady road/vehicle/medical improvements?
In my mind it should be entirely possible.
The big problem is a negative seachange in driver attitude and driver responsibility which could completely dwarf all that good work. That is the biggy...
In my mind it should be entirely possible.
The big problem is a negative seachange in driver attitude and driver responsibility which could completely dwarf all that good work. That is the biggy...
oldsoak said:
Shouldn't we be looking at this from another angle?
It isn't cars that kill it is the people that are in control (or not) said cars that are at fault.
Improve driving skills, educate to remove the 'lemming mindset' of today's rush everywhere motorist foster a better level of compliance with road traffic laws and regulations and we may just be onto something.
The only answer to achieve 0 percent is to remove the human factor altogether (though even then you could have mechanical failure as a lethal factor).It isn't cars that kill it is the people that are in control (or not) said cars that are at fault.
Improve driving skills, educate to remove the 'lemming mindset' of today's rush everywhere motorist foster a better level of compliance with road traffic laws and regulations and we may just be onto something.
The problem is, as much as vehicles are machines, people are not.
When in control of a car people will still make irrational, ill judged, ill informed and emotional decisions which can ultimately end in collisions.
It's not just drivers, either. Pedestrians and cyclists can be injured and killed by motor vehicles by their own actions aside from those of the driver.
When in control of a car people will still make irrational, ill judged, ill informed and emotional decisions which can ultimately end in collisions.
It's not just drivers, either. Pedestrians and cyclists can be injured and killed by motor vehicles by their own actions aside from those of the driver.
The simple answer for society as a whole comes from economics.
The cost of road death and the cost to the economy of the measures taken to reduce road death are factors in the equation.
If, on the other hand, it's a personal matter - say a member of your family - then economics no longer matter to you. You might fixate on stopping all road deaths no matter what the cost to society.
You might even form a pressure group to push your own personal agenda!
Or is that going too far?
The cost of road death and the cost to the economy of the measures taken to reduce road death are factors in the equation.
If, on the other hand, it's a personal matter - say a member of your family - then economics no longer matter to you. You might fixate on stopping all road deaths no matter what the cost to society.
You might even form a pressure group to push your own personal agenda!
Or is that going too far?
Bing o said:
oldsoak said:
Shouldn't we be looking at this from another angle?
It isn't cars that kill it is the people that are in control (or not) said cars that are at fault.
Improve driving skills, educate to remove the 'lemming mindset' of today's rush everywhere motorist foster a better level of compliance with road traffic laws and regulations and we may just be onto something.
The only answer to achieve 0 percent is to remove the human factor altogether (though even then you could have mechanical failure as a lethal factor).It isn't cars that kill it is the people that are in control (or not) said cars that are at fault.
Improve driving skills, educate to remove the 'lemming mindset' of today's rush everywhere motorist foster a better level of compliance with road traffic laws and regulations and we may just be onto something.
Thinking about it logically if you or I could get into our transport pod and arrive some minutes later in computer controlled high speed cheap electric comfort at our destination wouldn't that be the sensible thing to do?
Image from Woody Allen's film 'Sleeper' where he wakes up two hundred years in the future.
I agree with some of the comments about the relatively small number of deaths. Obviously, if it happens to you or someone you're close to it's horrendous. But the 3500 people that are apparently killed in traffic related incidents...compared with the number of cars and pedestrians/cyclists etc making journies every year....it's statistically tiny. And as has been said, there are many other "Govt sponsored" deaths which make the road traffic ones seem miniscule. Iraq. Dirty Hospitals. Smoking Related. I think they're concentrating on the wrong things.
AJS- said:
A car is a ton of metal and glass, usually moving around at upto 80mph or so, and a lot faster at times. Every one of them is a potentially lethal weapon that. There are millions of them moving around the relatively confined space of the UK road network.
So it is entirely inevitable that they will occasionally crash. Isn't it? And it seems to be inevitable that some of these crashes will result in serious injury or death. Or am I over pessimistic? We obviously each accept the risk of death that driving brings for the benefits to our quality of life that it brings.
So what is an acceptable level of death from road accidents as a society? Must it be lower year on year? Should it be zero? Or do we accept a certain level of carnage that is the price of the benefits cars bring?
It is zero.So it is entirely inevitable that they will occasionally crash. Isn't it? And it seems to be inevitable that some of these crashes will result in serious injury or death. Or am I over pessimistic? We obviously each accept the risk of death that driving brings for the benefits to our quality of life that it brings.
So what is an acceptable level of death from road accidents as a society? Must it be lower year on year? Should it be zero? Or do we accept a certain level of carnage that is the price of the benefits cars bring?
The thing is that a crash is almost always the result of someone making a mistake so someone is to blame.
Therefore if everyone drove safely and properly there would be no death or injury.
Now if this is realistic or not,probably not as people will always make mistakes or drive badly.This could be due to drink driving,drugs,tiredness,inappropriate speed etc etc etc.
oldsoak said:
Shouldn't we be looking at this from another angle?
Improve driving skills, ......motorist foster a better level of compliance with road traffic laws and regulations and we may just be onto something.
Not sure what the correlation between these is nowadays. Agree fully with your first comment.Improve driving skills, ......motorist foster a better level of compliance with road traffic laws and regulations and we may just be onto something.
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