Overtaking + Someone Pulling Out Of A Driveway - Who's Fault
Discussion
Its been a while since I took my test...
I remember that overtaking when there's a junction with another road is a 'no'.
But is it the same with any driveway to a house / field etc ?
Had a near miss today when someone pulled out onto a NSL country road, without looking but then wondered whether legally it would have been my fault (as I believe it would be the case, had it been a road junction)
I remember that overtaking when there's a junction with another road is a 'no'.
But is it the same with any driveway to a house / field etc ?
Had a near miss today when someone pulled out onto a NSL country road, without looking but then wondered whether legally it would have been my fault (as I believe it would be the case, had it been a road junction)
I suppose it is a case of the overtaker being more viliant whilst carrying out this type of manoeuvre, taking all the surrounding hazards into account i.e.the speed limit,the narrowness of the road the amount of drives that look onto the road etc. Then i suppose you could arrgue that the vehicle emerging from the drive onto the road did he show care to other road users by being negligent in reversing onto a road thhat has got one orr more of the above hazards,really it doesnt matter if the car was overtakingor travelling on its correct side of the road, the duty of care should have been mainly from the vehicle entering the road from the drive.
Stefluc
Stefluc
A drive is most certainly NOT given the same priorities as a road junction... regarding parking etc
She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
Deva Link said:
It would be 100% the fault of the person coming out of the driveway.
Are you sure ?Hopefully I'll never need to know... but as I was accelerating it would have resulted in a nasty crash.
To clarify she pulled out as I was literally feet from her drive entrance... sheer good luck I had started moving back in.
Edited by redgriff500 on Sunday 21st October 23:22
redgriff500 said:
A drive is most certainly NOT given the same priorities as a road junction... regarding parking etc
She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
You should exhibit great care in your planning of the overtake where there is potential for conflict.She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
In the circumstances you've described I'd be giving consideration for a without due care by both parties.
Them for failing to check it was safe to enter the road before doing so.
You for starting an overtake where you had insufficient vision to see that it was safe to complete it & doing it in an area of potential conflict.
vonhosen said:
redgriff500 said:
A drive is most certainly NOT given the same priorities as a road junction... regarding parking etc
She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
You should exhibit great care in your planning of the overtake where there is potential for conflict.She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
In the circumstances you've described I'd be giving consideration for a without due care by both parties.
Them for failing to check it was safe to enter the road before doing so.
You for starting an overtake where you had insufficient vision to see that it was safe to complete it & doing it in an area of potential conflict.
I take the OP was'nt expecting anyone to pull out of said driveway? in which case poor planning/obesrevation & anticipation. If you can't see its 100% safe & clear with no potentials for conflict don't go. Save it till later.
cptsideways said:
vonhosen said:
redgriff500 said:
A drive is most certainly NOT given the same priorities as a road junction... regarding parking etc
She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
You should exhibit great care in your planning of the overtake where there is potential for conflict.She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
In the circumstances you've described I'd be giving consideration for a without due care by both parties.
Them for failing to check it was safe to enter the road before doing so.
You for starting an overtake where you had insufficient vision to see that it was safe to complete it & doing it in an area of potential conflict.
I take the OP was'nt expecting anyone to pull out of said driveway? in which case poor planning/obesrevation & anticipation. If you can't see its 100% safe & clear with no potentials for conflict don't go. Save it till later.
Although people pulling out of junctions or driveways or whatever, and turning left without even so much as a glance to their left, why why why!!! They really make my blood boil and I see it every day! Why cant we have public service announcements telling drivers to always look both ways? That would lower fatality rates more than a Million scamera vans ever could!!!
Interesting that it is different in the UK. In The Netherlands, the highway code states that a person joining a road has to look both ways "as there may be a vehicle overtaking" and that vehicle has right of way. In other words, it is the duty of the person joining the road to make sure it is clear, rather then for the overtaking person to make sure it stays clear.
All I can say, is that in NL you would have been 100% in the right. Interesting difference with the UK highway code then ...
All I can say, is that in NL you would have been 100% in the right. Interesting difference with the UK highway code then ...
I think that the onus is on the person joining the carriageway.
If this were not the case then the plain fact is that no-one could safely overtake almost anywhere in the UK.
It cannot be 50/50 either because it would imply that the 'overtaker' can see through the vehicle he is overtaking.
I was taught to observe the road before pulling out and look especially at any slow moving vehicles that MAY have another vehicle overtaking it.
The simple rule in pulling out... be absolutely certain the road is clear in the carriageway you are about to join.
If this were not the case then the plain fact is that no-one could safely overtake almost anywhere in the UK.
It cannot be 50/50 either because it would imply that the 'overtaker' can see through the vehicle he is overtaking.
I was taught to observe the road before pulling out and look especially at any slow moving vehicles that MAY have another vehicle overtaking it.
The simple rule in pulling out... be absolutely certain the road is clear in the carriageway you are about to join.
vonhousen said:
redgriff500 said:
A drive is most certainly NOT given the same priorities as a road junction... regarding parking etc
She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
You should exhibit great care in your planning of the overtake where there is potential for conflict.She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
In the circumstances you've described I'd be giving consideration for a without due care by both parties.
Them for failing to check it was safe to enter the road before doing so.
You for starting an overtake where you had insufficient vision to see that it was safe to complete it & doing it in an area of potential conflict.
Deva Link said:
It would be 100% the fault of the person coming out of the driveway.
Friend of mine pulled out to go right from a private car park in front of a car turning left into the car park. He collided (slowly) with the car overtaking the car pulling in and even though the other driver was on the wrong side of the road it was regarded by insurance as 100% the fault of my mate for pulling out when it wasn't clear.Interesting...
It seems there isn't a definative answer...
It was clear and on country roads you can't see all the entrances for 400+ metres, especially not in a low car.
Of course some would say, then you shouldn't overtake...
however if the dawdlers didn't all bunch together and people looked before pulling out it wouldn't happen either.
It seems there isn't a definative answer...
It was clear and on country roads you can't see all the entrances for 400+ metres, especially not in a low car.
Of course some would say, then you shouldn't overtake...
however if the dawdlers didn't all bunch together and people looked before pulling out it wouldn't happen either.
The fact that people are safely overtaking on unsighted junctions says to me that they aren't being very aware at all.
Unless I know that nothing will pull out on me, I don't overtake, the chances aren't worth it.
There are lots of cases where overtaking past junctions and driveways if well sighted and clear is perfectly safe, but if you can't see the drive fully enough to check it's clear or see the car and still pull out to overtake, it is lack of observation or bad judgement.
Dave!
Unless I know that nothing will pull out on me, I don't overtake, the chances aren't worth it.
There are lots of cases where overtaking past junctions and driveways if well sighted and clear is perfectly safe, but if you can't see the drive fully enough to check it's clear or see the car and still pull out to overtake, it is lack of observation or bad judgement.
Dave!
plasticpig said:
vonhousen said:
redgriff500 said:
A drive is most certainly NOT given the same priorities as a road junction... regarding parking etc
She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
You should exhibit great care in your planning of the overtake where there is potential for conflict.She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
In the circumstances you've described I'd be giving consideration for a without due care by both parties.
Them for failing to check it was safe to enter the road before doing so.
You for starting an overtake where you had insufficient vision to see that it was safe to complete it & doing it in an area of potential conflict.
plasticpig said:
vonhousen said:
redgriff500 said:
A drive is most certainly NOT given the same priorities as a road junction... regarding parking etc
She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
You should exhibit great care in your planning of the overtake where there is potential for conflict.She came out forwards, I presume she looked to her right but certainly didn't look to her left.
When overtaking a row of cars (as is their want to bunch behind a slow vehicle) if you can't overtake past any entrance then its pretty much no overtaking... then again as 'speed kills' I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise.
In the circumstances you've described I'd be giving consideration for a without due care by both parties.
Them for failing to check it was safe to enter the road before doing so.
You for starting an overtake where you had insufficient vision to see that it was safe to complete it & doing it in an area of potential conflict.
A car pulling up to the end of the driveway may just coincide with the driver of the car overtaking, now both cars are oblivious of each others presence and possible conflict.
In this circumstance [the only blind one] it is that car that is 'stationary' that starts a manoeuvre after the one overtaking has started his, therefore the driver of the overtaking vehicle is not the cause of the accident, he/she is a victim and nothing else.
The only person that could change this is the driver of the vehicle being overtaken and even then I would not rely too much on what he might see as the facts. Because he literally has two events at opposite ends of his perception.
No, the advice here for all drivers is there is no excuse for pulling out unless your road is clear and that INCLUDES any vehicle that might be on your carriageway that might be overtaking.
That is my view as well.
Why is it that the definate answer can not be found in the highway code though? In my (Dutch) copy it clearly states just about every traffic situation, and it shows a picture of a drive/road joining another road(priority road), with the caption underneath it that the car from the drive/road must wait until the road is clear BOTH ways.
The UK highway code book seems to be missing a lot ...
Why is it that the definate answer can not be found in the highway code though? In my (Dutch) copy it clearly states just about every traffic situation, and it shows a picture of a drive/road joining another road(priority road), with the caption underneath it that the car from the drive/road must wait until the road is clear BOTH ways.
The UK highway code book seems to be missing a lot ...
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