Speeding Technicality
Discussion
Hello fellow enthusiasts!!
Long story short......
Overtook an unmarked police car on a nice open stretch of A road. Got clocked at 80.2 in a 60.
So, more than 20 over the limit. Got a verbal NIP on the scene and told it would be 3 points and 60 quid fine, if I produced docs within 7 days. (I didn't have my driving licence on me).
I was on my way to the airport at the time to go on holiday for a week, so there was no way I could produce within 7 days. I explained this, and the policewoman, said that it would have to go to court then.
Got the NIP 13 days after the incident.
So, I'll put my hand up and say fair cop.
However, the police witness statement that came with the NIP has 2 anomalies.
1. My registration number has been written down incorrectly, such that the last 3 letters are incorrect. Instead of being 'ZKX' it is written clearly as 'ZFX'
2. My first name is incorrect. I have 2 'L's in my first name, but it is written down with one. I did provide my passport at the time, so there's no reason for getting this wrong.
Cut to the chase.......
I'm in court tomorrow afternoon. Can I get off on a technicality, or should I just accept it?
Any comments would be more than welcome. And/Or links to appropriate sites
Thanks.
Long story short......
Overtook an unmarked police car on a nice open stretch of A road. Got clocked at 80.2 in a 60.
So, more than 20 over the limit. Got a verbal NIP on the scene and told it would be 3 points and 60 quid fine, if I produced docs within 7 days. (I didn't have my driving licence on me).
I was on my way to the airport at the time to go on holiday for a week, so there was no way I could produce within 7 days. I explained this, and the policewoman, said that it would have to go to court then.
Got the NIP 13 days after the incident.
So, I'll put my hand up and say fair cop.
However, the police witness statement that came with the NIP has 2 anomalies.
1. My registration number has been written down incorrectly, such that the last 3 letters are incorrect. Instead of being 'ZKX' it is written clearly as 'ZFX'
2. My first name is incorrect. I have 2 'L's in my first name, but it is written down with one. I did provide my passport at the time, so there's no reason for getting this wrong.
Cut to the chase.......
I'm in court tomorrow afternoon. Can I get off on a technicality, or should I just accept it?
Any comments would be more than welcome. And/Or links to appropriate sites
Thanks.
No chance I am afraid.
I believe it is called 'slip rule'. It does not affect the case.
When I was falsely accused by three officers, the funniest point was that each of them reported in their statment that my first name was something else, the staement came through with 3 different first names, not just a couple of letters out!
When I brought this up in court one of the officers tried to tell the court that the reason this was the case was that when I was questioned I must have tried to give a false name in order to deceive them! He of course couldnt explain how his colleague wrote down my name perfectly...
Didn't change the case though apart from to add another nail in the coffin as the rest of their 'evidence' was just as slipshod.
I believe it is called 'slip rule'. It does not affect the case.
When I was falsely accused by three officers, the funniest point was that each of them reported in their statment that my first name was something else, the staement came through with 3 different first names, not just a couple of letters out!
When I brought this up in court one of the officers tried to tell the court that the reason this was the case was that when I was questioned I must have tried to give a false name in order to deceive them! He of course couldnt explain how his colleague wrote down my name perfectly...
Didn't change the case though apart from to add another nail in the coffin as the rest of their 'evidence' was just as slipshod.
Smiler. said:
I'd do the right thing - it's a bitter pill to swallow but as you say, it was a fair cop.
What?? He IS trying to do the right thing, he was asked to report to a police station in a situation where there's no way he could. Now, due to a stupid rule, a person who was quite willing to "bend over and do the right thing" has to go to court.Somebody who knows more than I will be able to say for sure, but I expect you'll also be reported for failing to produce your documents (you must at the roadside, if asked, but there's a defence of showing them within 7 days, I believe) - but under the circumstances (if the copper noted you were flying out on hols) then I would hope that this isn't taken further.
Forget about the typo's, they're purely admin errors, and are not "important" in identifying you / your car.
Due to a decimal place in the wrong place on a statement I was accused of driving at over 100,000mph; I travelled just over half a mile in 0.196 seconds! The Police are allowed 'slip' as mentioned to cover small errors, after all you'd not want a murderer to get off as they'd spelt his name wrong.
Check out pepipoo, great site which might have some ideas for you but it looks like a fair cop!
Check out pepipoo, great site which might have some ideas for you but it looks like a fair cop!
tigger1 said:
Smiler. said:
I'd do the right thing - it's a bitter pill to swallow but as you say, it was a fair cop.
What?? He IS trying to do the right thing, he was asked to report to a police station in a situation where there's no way he could. Now, due to a stupid rule, a person who was quite willing to "bend over and do the right thing" has to go to court.Somebody who knows more than I will be able to say for sure, but I expect you'll also be reported for failing to produce your documents (you must at the roadside, if asked, but there's a defence of showing them within 7 days, I believe) - but under the circumstances (if the copper noted you were flying out on hols) then I would hope that this isn't taken further.
Forget about the typo's, they're purely admin errors, and are not "important" in identifying you / your car.
tigger1 said:
Smiler. said:
I'd do the right thing - it's a bitter pill to swallow but as you say, it was a fair cop.
What?? He IS trying to do the right thing, he was asked to report to a police station in a situation where there's no way he could. Now, due to a stupid rule, a person who was quite willing to "bend over and do the right thing" has to go to court.Somebody who knows more than I will be able to say for sure, but I expect you'll also be reported for failing to produce your documents (you must at the roadside, if asked, but there's a defence of showing them within 7 days, I believe) - but under the circumstances (if the copper noted you were flying out on hols) then I would hope that this isn't taken further.
Forget about the typo's, they're purely admin errors, and are not "important" in identifying you / your car.
Not legal advice, particularly as it isn't my field but i would be inclined to take my passport and the plan tickets (boarding card if these were all surrendered?) to the court to prove that you wouldn't have had chance to comply with the 7 day rule should the officer not have noted your comments to them.
As for the rest of it fair cop, just a case of damage limitation of the producer point.
As for the rest of it fair cop, just a case of damage limitation of the producer point.
HertsBiker said:
Why are they allowed "slip" error ? either you get it right, or not. If not, then drop the case. Are they allowed "slip" in DNA evidence?????
Not if that makes a difference in the case!What are we advocating here?
I am sure if your other half was (God forbid) raped or murdered by some psycho, and of the first day of the trial the case is dismissed as his name was spelt wrong on the original papers, you wouldnt be best pleased and your principle might not seem so clear cut!?
Edited by JustinP1 on Tuesday 23 October 14:18
Horace11 said:
Hello fellow enthusiasts!!
Overtook an unmarked police car on a nice open stretch of A road. Got clocked at 80.2 in a 60.
Got a verbal NIP on the scene
Got the NIP 13 days after the incident.
Was it an unmarked traffic car or just an ordinary unmarked police car, the reason I ask is would an ordinary unmarked car have its speedo checked every day?.Overtook an unmarked police car on a nice open stretch of A road. Got clocked at 80.2 in a 60.
Got a verbal NIP on the scene
Got the NIP 13 days after the incident.
We often get situations like this where the licence cannot be surrendered for good reason. Working in Cumbria we often deal with Scots who can't produce their licence in England. In both of these circumstances we send the details to our central ticket office who send out a conditional offer of fixed penalty, much like if you had been caught by camera. That way you get the same penalty as for the roadside penalty ticket.
I'm sure the OP will get the opportunity to deal with the matter by post. If he does, I'd advise him to include in his correspondence that he would have been 'happy' to sort the matter out at the roadside but that prearranged circumstances prevented this. He may also wish to include that some forces operate the system I've mentioned above, and had that been available, you would have accepted it.
Hopefully the penalty will remain as per the FP (perhaps with a small court cost applied).
I'm sure the OP will get the opportunity to deal with the matter by post. If he does, I'd advise him to include in his correspondence that he would have been 'happy' to sort the matter out at the roadside but that prearranged circumstances prevented this. He may also wish to include that some forces operate the system I've mentioned above, and had that been available, you would have accepted it.
Hopefully the penalty will remain as per the FP (perhaps with a small court cost applied).
Horace11 said:
It was a silver BMW estate. Not sure I understand the difference between normal unmarked, and traffic unmarked?
Traffic police usually run a few unmaked cars on the motorways to pull unsuspecting motorists for speeding, If they are unmaked trafic cars they would probably have their speedos checked every day, otherwise they can't use their speedo in court as evidence (they might not have got you with their speedo).If its not a traffic car then I would imagine they wouldn't have their speedos calibrated every day, Unfortunately for you traffic police do us BMW estates so the one that stopped you could well be traffic.
Get ready for at least 3 traffic plods to tell me i don't know what I'm talking about.
iaha said:
We often get situations like this where the licence cannot be surrendered for good reason. Working in Cumbria we often deal with Scots who can't produce their licence in England.
Like this guy you mean?:
They had a good role model...
We will never surrender!!! (....our licences
)Steven Toy said:
A friend of mine who posts here occasionally did get off because his first name and first line of his address were slightly incorrect.
The case was dismissed.
That might be a slightly different issue. The case was dismissed.
If he did not receive for example a NIP for a speeding fine and the first name and or address was incorrect and this caused him not to receive it then the SCP have not fulfilled their obligations with regard to delivery of the NIP.
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