Info from Police National Computer

[sjp63]

If a citizen is arrested on suspicion (via allegation) of a crime, but after interview is not charged and not cautioned, ie the police/DPP judged there was no case ....and that citizen is notified officially of this, how long do the records of the arrest stay on file?

I ask because during my firearm cert renewal interview today, the above was brought up, much to my annoyance.

The guy said if "it" happened again i could get my licence withdrawn

Innocent until proven guilty eh?.......seems those days are long gone.

[FiveStar]

If you were not charged or cautioned surely the firearms licence people have no grounds to revoke your licence? If they did surely you could take it to court?

[Chrispy Porker]

sjp63 said:

If a citizen is arrested on suspicion (via allegation) of a crime, but after interview is not charged and not cautioned, ie the police/DPP judged there was no case ....and that citizen is notified officially of this, how long do the records of the arrest stay on file?

I ask because during my firearm cert renewal interview today, the above was brought up, much to my annoyance.

The guy said if "it" happened again i could get my licence withdrawn

Innocent until proven guilty eh?.......seems those days are long gone.

What was the offence arrested for?
What time scale are you referring to between the arrest and the interview?

[sjp63]

Chrispy Porker said:

sjp63 said:

If a citizen is arrested on suspicion (via allegation) of a crime, but after interview is not charged and not cautioned, ie the police/DPP judged there was no case ....and that citizen is notified officially of this, how long do the records of the arrest stay on file?

I ask because during my firearm cert renewal interview today, the above was brought up, much to my annoyance.

The guy said if "it" happened again i could get my licence withdrawn

Innocent until proven guilty eh?.......seems those days are long gone.

What was the offence arrested for?
What time scale are you referring to between the arrest and the interview?

assault

4 weeks between event and invitation to attend police station for arrest/interview.

I must stress here that My wife and I were confronted in the car park by a very abusive guy who then vandalised our car. I pushed him. When I tried to call the police (who didnt answer after 8 minutes) - he called them and said I assaulted him

The interviewing officer knew who was telling the truth.....

Edited by sjp63 on Friday 26th October 11:55

[Marcellus]

I've got a friend who was arrested for Murder (not charged though) and the napplied for a firearms cert and it presetned no issues even though the firearms officer knew about it at the interview!!!

tbh I'd be more concerned if they didn't....and yes I too have a Firearms Cert!

Edited by Marcellus on Friday 26th October 11:59

[Chrispy Porker]

You rang 999 and no-one answered for 8 minutes?

[sjp63]

Chrispy Porker said:

You rang 999 and no-one answered for 8 minutes?

I rang 999 and the operator judged the situation not to be an emergency and put me through to xxxxx control room who didnt answer.

next random question please..

[sjp63]

FiveStar said:

If you were not charged or cautioned surely the firearms licence people have no grounds to revoke your licence? If they did surely you could take it to court?

I assume you are correct. I think the guy had been asked to "discuss the issue" with me, which annoyed me on principal really

[walm]

sjp63 said:

next random question please..

How does one carry a firearm around?
Can you just sling a shotgun over your arm and cruise into Barclays?

[sjp63]

walm said:

sjp63 said:

next random question please..

How does one carry a firearm around?
Can you just sling a shotgun over your arm and cruise into Barclays?

Depends if you are wearing a balaclava or not and where you are. In my local pub for instance the guns are left in an umbrellas stand as you walk in after the Sunday shoot. I believe thats frowned upon in Brixton though.

[Marcellus]

sjp63 said:

FiveStar said:

If you were not charged or cautioned surely the firearms licence people have no grounds to revoke your licence? If they did surely you could take it to court?

I assume you are correct. I think the guy had been asked to "discuss the issue" with me, which annoyed me on principal really

but why? You are being interviewed by the Firearms Officer to ensure you are a suitable individual to hold a certificate that permits you to own, keep at your house, carry in your car and shoot a lethal weapon.

You have been reported (or whatever) for assualt.....that miht indicate that you have the potential to have a "firey temper/personality" therefore the general populus might not think it wise to have someone with a firey temper to be be allowed to carry guns...he asked, you explained, he accepted, your licence was renewed.

The other side...had the system not worked and the FO not asked for your side might that indicate that the FO was unaware of the incident and if he was (even though it is irrelevant) what if it weren't!!

in answer to the random; unloaded, covered and not on display

[Marcellus]

sjp63 said:

walm said:

sjp63 said:

next random question please..

How does one carry a firearm around?
Can you just sling a shotgun over your arm and cruise into Barclays?

Depends if you are wearing a balaclava or not and where you are. In my local pub for instance the guns are left in an umbrellas stand as you walk in after the Sunday shoot. I believe thats frowned upon in Brixton though.

It would be frowned upon where I come from too..........no way to treat a gun!!!

[ATG]

Marcellus said:

...he asked, you explained, he accepted, your licence was renewed.

Well, I think it is fairly clear that what he objected to was the officer saying "if this happens again the license may get revoked" ... i.e. if someone else makes another spurious allegation, we'll ignore the "spurious" bit. Surely you can see that might be rather galling?

[sjp63]

Marcellus said:

sjp63 said:

FiveStar said:

If you were not charged or cautioned surely the firearms licence people have no grounds to revoke your licence? If they did surely you could take it to court?

I assume you are correct. I think the guy had been asked to "discuss the issue" with me, which annoyed me on principal really

but why? You are being interviewed by the Firearms Officer to ensure you are a suitable individual to hold a certificate that permits you to own, keep at your house, carry in your car and shoot a lethal weapon.

You have been reported (or whatever) for assualt.....that miht indicate that you have the potential to have a "firey temper/personality" therefore the general populus might not think it wise to have someone with a firey temper to be be allowed to carry guns...he asked, you explained, he accepted, your licence was renewed.

The other side...had the system not worked and the FO not asked for your side might that indicate that the FO was unaware of the incident and if he was (even though it is irrelevant) what if it weren't!!

in answer to the random; unloaded, covered and not on display

Quite right....however he had it in his head that i had committed a crime. When I asked him to explain the PNC printout that he had with him, he couldnt but left with an action to do so. I was left concerned that the records on the database about me may not be correct in some way.

[oldbanger]

sjp63 said:

If a citizen is arrested on suspicion (via allegation) of a crime, but after interview is not charged and not cautioned, ie the police/DPP judged there was no case ....and that citizen is notified officially of this, how long do the records of the arrest stay on file?

Until you are 100 or you die, whichever happens first.

From http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/Retent...
"3.1 When a nominal record is created or updated on the PNC by virtue of an individual being the subject of a Conviction, Penalty Notice for Disorder, Acquittal or CJ Arrestee, the record will contain relevant personal data together with the details of the offence which resulted in the record creation. The record will be retained on the PNC until that person is deemed to have attained the age of 100 years of age. Where a subject is shown to have more than one date of birth, th earliest date will be used to determine when 100 years of age has been obtained"

[Marcellus]

ATG said:

Marcellus said:

...he asked, you explained, he accepted, your licence was renewed.

Well, I think it is fairly clear that what he objected to was the officer saying "if this happens again the license may get revoked" ... i.e. if someone else makes another spurious allegation, we'll ignore the "spurious" bit. Surely you can see that might be rather galling?

true, but teh OP was given the opportunity to explain...

My FO always asks how your relationship/marriage is and advises if you are having issues then pass your guns onto a friend for safe keeping....if a disgruntled partner or anyone were to ever ring and report that you pointed the gun at them then your guns are gone 1st and you asked about it 2nd!!

Now that would be galling!!!

[tigger1]

oldbanger said:

sjp63 said:

If a citizen is arrested on suspicion (via allegation) of a crime, but after interview is not charged and not cautioned, ie the police/DPP judged there was no case ....and that citizen is notified officially of this, how long do the records of the arrest stay on file?

Until you are 100 or you die, whichever happens first.

From http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/Retent...
"3.1 When a nominal record is created or updated on the PNC by virtue of an individual being the subject of a Conviction, Penalty Notice for Disorder, Acquittal or CJ Arrestee, the record will contain relevant personal data together with the details of the offence which resulted in the record creation. The record will be retained on the PNC until that person is deemed to have attained the age of 100 years of age. Where a subject is shown to have more than one date of birth, th earliest date will be used to determine when 100 years of age has been obtained"

So when I reach 100, any hypothetical wrong-doings are deleted from my record??

Does this not leave the way for a bunch of very elderly perverts to work with people they shouldn't?

[havoc]

Marcellus said:

My FO always asks how your relationship/marriage is and advises if you are having issues then pass your guns onto a friend for safe keeping....if a disgruntled partner or anyone were to ever ring and report that you pointed the gun at them then your guns are gone 1st and you asked about it 2nd!!

I can sort of see the logic...on the premise that the accusation is accurate, it denotes someone with the potential to be dangerous...but I can also imagine how difficult it would be to get £'000s of guns back afterwards IF you manage to clear your name...

[mark69sheer]

This is so annoying.

I have been told my record is 'unblemished' after I was arrested for assault when I was attacked once. I only struck out in self defence after being attacked by three bouncers when I wanted to sue the bouncers the cctv tape mysteriously dissapeared from police custody and charges were dropped.
I went through the IPCC and received an apology from the inspector involved. I rang him up to ensure that my criminal record was still unblemished as I knew I had been logged as a detected crime initially.

But now what you are saying is that there is a record of my details and what they attempted to charge me for on computer.!!!! wrs

This explains why when my wife went to hospital recently with a bad chest they xrayed her and then phoned the police.
CID turned up at her work to interview her about suspected serious domestic violence.
Two things here her damaged ribs were from a car accident 8 yrs ago which they would have known if they had checked her records.
Secondly now I know why the police were so quick to jump in with both size tens.
It really pissed us both of at the time , my wife for having police turn up at her place of work and me for being suspected for no reason.


1984... Orwell was nowhere near.

[Chrispy Porker]

mark69sheer said:

This is so annoying.

I have been told my record is 'unblemished' after I was arrested for assault when I was attacked once. I only struck out in self defence after being attacked by three bouncers when I wanted to sue the bouncers the cctv tape mysteriously dissapeared from police custody and charges were dropped.
I went through the IPCC and received an apology from the inspector involved. I rang him up to ensure that my criminal record was still unblemished as I knew I had been logged as a detected crime initially.

But now what you are saying is that there is a record of my details and what they attempted to charge me for on computer.!!!! wrs

This explains why when my wife went to hospital recently with a bad chest they xrayed her and then phoned the police.
CID turned up at her work to interview her about suspected serious domestic violence.
Two things here her damaged ribs were from a car accident 8 yrs ago which they would have known if they had checked her records.
Secondly now I know why the police were so quick to jump in with both size tens.
It really pissed us both of at the time , my wife for having police turn up at her place of work and me for being suspected for no reason.


1984... Orwell was nowhere near.

Funnily enough we were keeping records of who we had arrested before 1984.