RE: Motoring Offences Report Published
Thursday 1st November 2007
The Ministry of Justice has released statistics from its annual audit of the number of motoring offences and breath tests administered by the police in England and Wales.
Motoring Offences Report Published
New stats make shocking reading
In this latest report, covering the year 2005, the police and parking attendants dealt with 13 million motoring offences, down 3% on the previous year.
Unsurprisingly, cameras provided evidence for 88% of the two million speeding offences logged. We were surprised to learn that almost all convictions for causing death by dangerous driving (94%) continue to be against male drivers, though.
However, the report also raises a number of particularly concerning trends that road safety charity Brake has quite rightly raised.
These include the proportion of convictions for causing death by dangerous driving against young drivers, i.e. those aged under 21, continuing to rise, going from 24% in 2003, to 26% in 2004 and now 27% in this latest report. Additionally, careless driving offences rose 35% from 2004 to 2005, which takes into account new laws surrounding the use of mobile phones while driving.
Brake’s head of campaigns, Cathy Keeler, said:
"It's particularly worrying to see the steady rise in the proportion of convictions for causing death by dangerous driving against young drivers. This adds weight to urgent calls for the Government to overhaul our whole system of learning to drive. Brake wants to see a graduated driver licensing system introduced, with restrictions protecting young drivers from exposure to driving in the situations where they are most likely to crash.”
Discussion
Bada Bing! said:
I'd also like to see all new drivers restricted to 1000cc or less for the first 2yrs after passing their test.
Thats not feasible as it would require a lot of families to buy a new car, then tax it, then run it. A large percentage of new drivers will be borrowing their parents car for the 1st few years so driving whatever is available as long as its insurable.Bada Bing! said:
I'd also like to see all new drivers restricted to 1000cc or less for the first 2yrs after passing their test.
From what I've seen in a rural area, many of the fatals involving inexperienced drivers are in low powered superminis loaded with friends.In the studies I've read, the concensus tends to be that the older people are before they can drive, and the longer their period of learning, the less likely they are to have accidents. Conversely, the more you train new drivers in vehicle handling techniques, such as skidpans and the like, the more the accident rate rises with perceived ability.
I totally agree with learners needing more experience with motorway driving, though. Perhaps more along the lines of easing congestion than for safety (as new drivers don't tend to crash on the motorway).
A good start would be to have to show the ability to properly control a car up to at least 60mph on a private test area before being let loose on the roads with an instructor - that goes for bikes as well.
Seeing obviously nervous beginners out in the rush hour is unnerving for them and us.
It might not necessarily stop the nutters but would take out the dodderers who clog the roads whose slow driving leads to rash overtaking and maybe instill some level of decency into most people's driving.
Seeing obviously nervous beginners out in the rush hour is unnerving for them and us.
It might not necessarily stop the nutters but would take out the dodderers who clog the roads whose slow driving leads to rash overtaking and maybe instill some level of decency into most people's driving.
Restrict them to a maximum speed limit for their first year on the road as they currently do in N Ireland -- the car would need to display a sign (like the "L" plate) but using a different letter so everybody would know they are in their first year
Anybody convicted of speeding would have their licence taken away
Anybody convicted of speeding would have their licence taken away
Bada Bing! said:
Somehow driving in snow, driving at night, and understanding how a car brakes and handles in the wet needs to be part fo the test. No idea how we do that though.
I'd also like to see all new drivers restricted to 1000cc or less for the first 2yrs after passing their test.
How about just making the test cover the drivers suitability to actually drive full stop.I'd also like to see all new drivers restricted to 1000cc or less for the first 2yrs after passing their test.
Their attitude, imho, is key here.
I never learnt in snow, fog, motorways, dc's etc, but what I did learn I slowly and carefully applied.
You can never experience everything before you get your driving lisence otherwise you'd be learning for fifty years. I see new things every day and learn from them.
Problem is 'tick box' teaching and testing. Lets have testers actually consider if this driver looks confident enough to go on and continue learning.
Lets have more Plod keeping their eyes on young drivers making sure they stay in line!
I drove a 2.0 petrol straight after my test, with mates in, fourty mile round trips to the cinema, never one issue. I took responsbility for my mates lives and acted like a grown up. It's ALL down to attitude. If you have a bad one you'll kill yourself and others in a 900cc Fiesta Popular no matter how much snow/rain/poor weather training you have or what the 'limits' are artificially imposed on you.
If you ignore common sense and what you have been taught, then there may well be drastic consequences. It's not 'magic' it's just common sense and taking some responsibility. Stupid laws and tick-box rules won't change what goes on in some peoples heads!
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 1st November 10:25
"Restrict them to a maximum speed limit for their first year on the road as they currently do in N Ireland -- the car would need to display a sign (like the "L" plate) but using a different letter so everybody would know they are in their first year
Anybody convicted of speeding would have their licence taken away"
This is implying that speed is the cause of most accidents. My opinion is that most accidents involving inexperienced drivers are caused by their lack of experience and poor judgement. Of course there is a percentage of accidents caused by excessive speed, but i would think this is less than most people would believe. An extended driving test covering more aspects of driving, and large discounts on extra driver training (IAM, Car Control courses etc) upto 2 years after passing would be more beneficial. All in my humble opinion of course.
Matt
Anybody convicted of speeding would have their licence taken away"
This is implying that speed is the cause of most accidents. My opinion is that most accidents involving inexperienced drivers are caused by their lack of experience and poor judgement. Of course there is a percentage of accidents caused by excessive speed, but i would think this is less than most people would believe. An extended driving test covering more aspects of driving, and large discounts on extra driver training (IAM, Car Control courses etc) upto 2 years after passing would be more beneficial. All in my humble opinion of course.
Matt
10 Pence Short said:
Bada Bing! said:
I'd also like to see all new drivers restricted to 1000cc or less for the first 2yrs after passing their test.
From what I've seen in a rural area, many of the fatals involving inexperienced drivers are in low powered superminis loaded with friends.I have a vivid memory of a mate loosing control of his 1L metro on a country lane while the other 4 of us stared wide eyed at the aproaching hedge. Fortunately he scrubbed off enough speed and ended up drifting round the corner just brushing the hedge with the boot.
From my experience the biggest problem with my first car was not having ABS. Trying to stop a Volvo 340 on a wet road in a hurry was not fun. Ideally I'd like to see new drivers restricted to cars with ABS fitted.
SXi_kid said:
"Restrict them to a maximum speed limit for their first year on the road as they currently do in N Ireland -- the car would need to display a sign (like the "L" plate) but using a different letter so everybody would know they are in their first year
Anybody convicted of speeding would have their licence taken away"
This is implying that speed is the cause of most accidents. My opinion is that most accidents involving inexperienced drivers are caused by their lack of experience and poor judgement. Of course there is a percentage of accidents caused by excessive speed, but i would think this is less than most people would believe. An extended driving test covering more aspects of driving, and large discounts on extra driver training (IAM, Car Control courses etc) upto 2 years after passing would be more beneficial. All in my humble opinion of course.
Matt
Just see the other thread on PH, the chavs who smashed up/raced through streets.Anybody convicted of speeding would have their licence taken away"
This is implying that speed is the cause of most accidents. My opinion is that most accidents involving inexperienced drivers are caused by their lack of experience and poor judgement. Of course there is a percentage of accidents caused by excessive speed, but i would think this is less than most people would believe. An extended driving test covering more aspects of driving, and large discounts on extra driver training (IAM, Car Control courses etc) upto 2 years after passing would be more beneficial. All in my humble opinion of course.
Matt
I bet that 'culture' alone is responsible for more of these young person accidents than ever before.
Simply having more Plod out and about at/around these meetings of like minded car enthusiasts
would probably resolve most of the issues.Dave
There is nothing you can do to prevent young drivers deaths by education alone.
The reason the figures are rising is simply because the number of traffic police is falling.
Speed cameras don't stop bad driving.
All youngsters will drive beyond their limit. Its simply because of one reason.
The hormone testosterone!
Yep thats right. No teen wants to get in a car and die but ego honour and 'red mist' the 'thrill' of driving (adrenaline and testosterone) will allways be a factor in misjudged bad driving.
If you were to rais the age limit till it was safe then I would suggest 40 yrs old which would obviously be unworkable. in the meantime we need more police on the roads and the rural roads too to make these youngsters think twice about driving too fast.
I would also like to suggest that manufacturs of superminis give the same brakes, wheels and suspension set ups to their lesser models as they do to the top sports one's
It allways amazes me that even though a 1.0 ltr car can still arrive at a corner too fast it then has to try and go round with the equivalent of one hand tied round its back.
The reason the figures are rising is simply because the number of traffic police is falling.
Speed cameras don't stop bad driving.
All youngsters will drive beyond their limit. Its simply because of one reason.
The hormone testosterone!
Yep thats right. No teen wants to get in a car and die but ego honour and 'red mist' the 'thrill' of driving (adrenaline and testosterone) will allways be a factor in misjudged bad driving.
If you were to rais the age limit till it was safe then I would suggest 40 yrs old which would obviously be unworkable. in the meantime we need more police on the roads and the rural roads too to make these youngsters think twice about driving too fast.
I would also like to suggest that manufacturs of superminis give the same brakes, wheels and suspension set ups to their lesser models as they do to the top sports one's
It allways amazes me that even though a 1.0 ltr car can still arrive at a corner too fast it then has to try and go round with the equivalent of one hand tied round its back.
I'm 18 and have been since June. Started learning on my 17th birthday last year and loved it from that point onward. My driving instructor drove me to the local industrial estate and said I'd drive around there doing manouvers and getting used to the car then he'd drive me home. My driving lesson composed of exactly that then I drove myself home along a series of 60mph, 50mph and 30mph roads with no problem and that was the first lesson. For me the driving tests were just expensive lessons (failed three times. only once was failure justified. I argued this but meh.) and past the fourth with three minors those being not looking all the way around the car before setting off (I had looked but not at the proper time) doing 35 in a 30 and moving to avoid a hazard but doing so a bit late which could effect traffic behind me. My car is a one liter 12 valve S reg corsa and it's done me well for the past year and my mate has a 1.2 seat Ibiza 07 reg and he drives fine as well. both of us fail our first tests and and my opinion drive rather well. Three people on my collage course past on there first test and I wouldn't trust them in a car that could drive itself. I see fear in many a new drivers eyes but they are given 1.5's and above cause they share mam and dads car, I've learned patience from simply being unable to overtake many a quicker car and from various weekend drives with my mates and practice in one or two empty car parks have learned how much it actually takes to stop a car and to judge the size of the car etc. how many people here brake 700miles before a junction? Or stay at 30 mph on a slip road and only accelerate on the M or A road itself? Or drive in the incorrect lane on said M or A road? not me.
Caution - "youth of today" speech ahead!!
I wonder how much of all this (like the poster above says) has to do with the dog-shit culture that young people seem to be into these days. There is one key word which generalises problems with a lot of things and it's "respect".
I was brought up to respect anyone older than me. To respect authority. To respect other people's property...and this filters into the respect for vehicles, roads and driving. Seems like more and more young people have no respect for anything - not even themselves. So how can we expect them to respect the rules of the road - and no, I don't mean the Highway Code - I mean the conditions in which they are driving, the position of other road users, pedestrians, hazards and so on?
I drove my folks Mini City for the first year of passing my test. I knew that if so much as a scratch was added to the vehicle, my Dad would tear me a new one. I worked in a factory during school/uni breaks so that I could buy my very own (and completely crappy) 1973 Beetle. Because I had earned it, I was very protective over it and did not want to see anything happen to it - so I drove it carefully!
Perhaps we could shift priorities again - it was never about who could drive fast or spin their wheels when I was in my teens. There was more credibility to be had by having my cool black 1303S, than there was in having the Rover 216 GTI (a 'fast' car) a pal had.
Christ, that makes me sound old - it was only 16 years ago!
When my girls are of an age where boys are picking them up in cars, I suspect I will be having a nice word saying that I don't care how he drives usually, but when my daughter is in the car he drives like she is Miss Daisy. I hear otherwise and he will be trying to drive with 2 broken ankles.
P~
I wonder how much of all this (like the poster above says) has to do with the dog-shit culture that young people seem to be into these days. There is one key word which generalises problems with a lot of things and it's "respect".
I was brought up to respect anyone older than me. To respect authority. To respect other people's property...and this filters into the respect for vehicles, roads and driving. Seems like more and more young people have no respect for anything - not even themselves. So how can we expect them to respect the rules of the road - and no, I don't mean the Highway Code - I mean the conditions in which they are driving, the position of other road users, pedestrians, hazards and so on?
I drove my folks Mini City for the first year of passing my test. I knew that if so much as a scratch was added to the vehicle, my Dad would tear me a new one. I worked in a factory during school/uni breaks so that I could buy my very own (and completely crappy) 1973 Beetle. Because I had earned it, I was very protective over it and did not want to see anything happen to it - so I drove it carefully!
Perhaps we could shift priorities again - it was never about who could drive fast or spin their wheels when I was in my teens. There was more credibility to be had by having my cool black 1303S, than there was in having the Rover 216 GTI (a 'fast' car) a pal had.
Christ, that makes me sound old - it was only 16 years ago!
When my girls are of an age where boys are picking them up in cars, I suspect I will be having a nice word saying that I don't care how he drives usually, but when my daughter is in the car he drives like she is Miss Daisy. I hear otherwise and he will be trying to drive with 2 broken ankles.
P~
PhantomPH said:
Caution - "youth of today" speech ahead!!
said speech.
P~
I don't know what I made myself sound like to you in that post but for the record I bought my own car and fuel it etc. The only thing I don't pay is insurance (for now) thats done by my dad and like you said, so much as a scratch and he'll tear me a new one. as for the whole "respect" thing. No disrespect to you sir you seem like a nice honest bloke but the same can't be said for the tosters who have been driving much longer than me and seem to have the urge to ram my little tiny car of the roads with there Audi's and Range Rover Sports, respect is a two way thing. as for my driving, like I said learned the limits of my car in an empty and quite large car park, when on the road I drive accordingly and watch my surroundings for any hazards there may be. as for other peoples comments on night driving and driving in the wet etc, I work at McDonalds (insert any joke you wish here) and regularly go home at three in the morning when it's dark and wet and I'm still here now typing this, on that same note I know someone (also from Mcdonalds) who rolled his car on a dry road in the middle of the day, so each to his own I guess.said speech.
P~
Edited by ColinMcBen on Thursday 1st November 11:55
I agree with PhantomPH - 100% - they've got no idea what respect means and probably couldn't spell it either
What ColinMcBen says is worrying - he obviously thinks he's hard done by for failing 3 times - doing 35 in a 30 - its a 30 limit!!!!!!! you do 30 - moving to avoid a hazard late - he's obviously the hazard
My earlier post about restriction in speed will go someway in helping to reduce the death toll - as mark69sheer says - all youngsters will drive beyond their limit - it's what happens
What ColinMcBen says is worrying - he obviously thinks he's hard done by for failing 3 times - doing 35 in a 30 - its a 30 limit!!!!!!! you do 30 - moving to avoid a hazard late - he's obviously the hazard
My earlier post about restriction in speed will go someway in helping to reduce the death toll - as mark69sheer says - all youngsters will drive beyond their limit - it's what happens
Edited by alanr on Thursday 1st November 11:58
alanr said:
What ColinMcBen says is worrying - he obviously thinks he's hard done by for failing 3 times - doing 35 in a 30 - its a 30 limit!!!!!!! you do 30 - moving to avoid a hazard late - he's obviously the hazard
Those were the minors I got got on my pass (4th test) the two test I believe I should have past I was done for not looking out the back but the examiner was looking at the floor and decided I should fail. as for the moving late for the hazard the examiner said that what I did was alright (signalled, then moved around when it was safe etc) was fine but it should have been done earlier to allow people behind me to see what was going on.Edited by alanr on Thursday 1st November 11:58
alanr said:
Restrict them to a maximum speed limit for their first year on the road as they currently do in N Ireland -- the car would need to display a sign (like the "L" plate) but using a different letter so everybody would know they are in their first year
Anybody convicted of speeding would have their licence taken away
Agree with the idea of a Newly Qualified Plate (N), might be good to give them some restrictions:Anybody convicted of speeding would have their licence taken away
- No overtaking on A/B roads (cuts risk taking in low powered/ friend laden cars)
- 50mph maximum on A/B roads
- 60mph maximum on motorways and only first 2 lanes
This would allow them to get some driving experience for a year and then when they lose their N plate they can graduate onto overtaking and increased speed.
Ideas which I'm sure someone will deem unworkable!
g7jhp said:
Agree with the idea of a Newly Qualified Plate (N), might be good to give them some restrictions:
1 No overtaking on A/B roads (cuts risk taking in low powered/ friend laden cars)
2 50mph maximum on A/B roads
3 60mph maximum on motorways and only first 2 lanes
This would allow them to get some driving experience for a year and then when they lose their N plate they can graduate onto overtaking and increased speed.
Ideas which I'm sure someone will deem unworkable!
1. I don't any way on B roads.1 No overtaking on A/B roads (cuts risk taking in low powered/ friend laden cars)
2 50mph maximum on A/B roads
3 60mph maximum on motorways and only first 2 lanes
This would allow them to get some driving experience for a year and then when they lose their N plate they can graduate onto overtaking and increased speed.
Ideas which I'm sure someone will deem unworkable!
2. I do go at 70 to overtake on A roads but depending on my exit would happily sit behind a lorry doing 54 for 3 miles. happily sit at 60 on a B road.
3. haven't been on a motorway yet and in my car I see no reason why I would be going fast enough to use the 3rd lane.
I could see this working as advice for new drivers but I don't think I would make it law. my mate drove around with P plates on his car after he passed and people seemed to give him room on the road etc, I didn't and was tret like a normal driver for better or for worse. looking back now I would have put P plates on and they could make it law to put them for 6 months to a year and apply said rules to that. Just ideas.
Edited by ColinMcBen on Thursday 1st November 12:35
ColinMcBen - My post was not directed at you. In fact if you look at the timings, my post was made only 3 minutes after yours - I actually started it a while before that! I had not seen your post when I started/finished/posted mine. 
There are ALWAYS going to be exceptions to generalisms like mine. In fact, I would love to think that most young drivers are fabulous individuals. Sadly the stats are getting worse year-on-year and something is bound to happen soon...and those likely to be nailed the hardest are young and new drivers.
For the record, I am pretty sure that there needs to be some improvement in the way that old folks' licences are renewed/reviewed as well.
There are ALWAYS going to be exceptions to generalisms like mine. In fact, I would love to think that most young drivers are fabulous individuals. Sadly the stats are getting worse year-on-year and something is bound to happen soon...and those likely to be nailed the hardest are young and new drivers.
For the record, I am pretty sure that there needs to be some improvement in the way that old folks' licences are renewed/reviewed as well.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff