Courts holding back evidence - statement of facts
Discussion
Hi guys, I'll keep this short.
My partner is being done for speeding and is being summoned to court. We want to go with Guilty because we know that he was exceeding the speed limit on the named road by a fair speed. However, the "statement of facts" that came with the Summons only says: "The defendant drove a motor vehicle on the said road at a speed exceeding 70mph, the defendants speed was checked by a police office and found to be ****" (the remainder of the literature is not provided).
His problem is that he WANTS to plead guilty, but as the courts REFUSE to disclose the full "statement of facts"/evidence, we don’t really know what we are pleading guilty to???
The only way you can obtain the evidence / prosecution material is to plead N/G - which seems ridiculous as he wants to do the right thing (and knows he is guilty), but needs to know what he is pleading guilty too....
We have sought legal advice and one motoring lawyer firm is adamant we should go N/G to obtain the S.O.F (assuring me that we can always go with a Guilty plead afterwards) of course the said motoring lawyers want to charge for their services, so this is in their interest.
We have also sought legal advice from an impartial advisor (free legal advice with our mortgage) and they are adamant that you're best off with a Guilty plead as this will lesser the punishment due to the fact that you're pleading guilty at the first available opportunity which will prove that you are remorseful.... (the literature from the courts actually states that your punishment will be reviewed an lightened if you do
I haven’t really asked a question in all of the above, but essentially want to see what PH recommend? NG seems like a lot of effort just to see what’s in the officer’s statement, but then again, pleading guilty to a charge you're not aware of is a bit like doing Russian roulette???
Any advice would be deeply appreciated.
My partner is being done for speeding and is being summoned to court. We want to go with Guilty because we know that he was exceeding the speed limit on the named road by a fair speed. However, the "statement of facts" that came with the Summons only says: "The defendant drove a motor vehicle on the said road at a speed exceeding 70mph, the defendants speed was checked by a police office and found to be ****" (the remainder of the literature is not provided).
His problem is that he WANTS to plead guilty, but as the courts REFUSE to disclose the full "statement of facts"/evidence, we don’t really know what we are pleading guilty to???
The only way you can obtain the evidence / prosecution material is to plead N/G - which seems ridiculous as he wants to do the right thing (and knows he is guilty), but needs to know what he is pleading guilty too....
We have sought legal advice and one motoring lawyer firm is adamant we should go N/G to obtain the S.O.F (assuring me that we can always go with a Guilty plead afterwards) of course the said motoring lawyers want to charge for their services, so this is in their interest.
We have also sought legal advice from an impartial advisor (free legal advice with our mortgage) and they are adamant that you're best off with a Guilty plead as this will lesser the punishment due to the fact that you're pleading guilty at the first available opportunity which will prove that you are remorseful.... (the literature from the courts actually states that your punishment will be reviewed an lightened if you do
I haven’t really asked a question in all of the above, but essentially want to see what PH recommend? NG seems like a lot of effort just to see what’s in the officer’s statement, but then again, pleading guilty to a charge you're not aware of is a bit like doing Russian roulette???
Any advice would be deeply appreciated.
Take a trip to http://www.pepipoo.com I'm sure they will be able to give you useful advice.
The idea of the Statement of Facts is that it is a brief resume of the details showing the offence and in a Guilty plea is read out at Court. This, with information on the summons; date, time, place of offence and summons headimng (offence)will give some idea as to what is involved. Whether this complies with 6(3)(a) European Convention on Human Rights - right to be informed in understandable terms and detail seems argueable.
The SoF and summons will state that the speed limit is alleged to have been exceeded but no information as to how much? The driver will have an idea if this is so but to me it would seem sensible that he should be given some information as to the actual speed alleged as this could have an influence on a points and fine or life effecting disqualification.
At this stage there is no requirement for them enter into full disclosure of evidence role until such time as a Not Guitly plea is recieved by them and asking for dislosure (Some info on this on Form 27, 27a bumpf that also comes with summons/SoF ?).
Two considerations:
(1) Contact Court Office and ask for a SoF with more details including the actual speed alleged, or,
(2) Enter a NG plea and ask for disloure of evidence and when this received consider what your plea is going to be.....you can change to a Guilty if you want before Court proceedings and advising them so.
dvd
The SoF and summons will state that the speed limit is alleged to have been exceeded but no information as to how much? The driver will have an idea if this is so but to me it would seem sensible that he should be given some information as to the actual speed alleged as this could have an influence on a points and fine or life effecting disqualification.
At this stage there is no requirement for them enter into full disclosure of evidence role until such time as a Not Guitly plea is recieved by them and asking for dislosure (Some info on this on Form 27, 27a bumpf that also comes with summons/SoF ?).
Two considerations:
(1) Contact Court Office and ask for a SoF with more details including the actual speed alleged, or,
(2) Enter a NG plea and ask for disloure of evidence and when this received consider what your plea is going to be.....you can change to a Guilty if you want before Court proceedings and advising them so.
dvd
Dwight VanDriver said:
The idea of the Statement of Facts is that it is a brief resume of the details showing the offence and in a Guilty plea is read out at Court. This, with information on the summons; date, time, place of offence and summons headimng (offence)will give some idea as to what is involved. Whether this complies with 6(3)(a) European Convention on Human Rights - right to be informed in understandable terms and detail seems argueable.
The SoF and summons will state that the speed limit is alleged to have been exceeded but no information as to how much? The driver will have an idea if this is so but to me it would seem sensible that he should be given some information as to the actual speed alleged as this could have an influence on a points and fine or life effecting disqualification.
At this stage there is no requirement for them enter into full disclosure of evidence role until such time as a Not Guitly plea is recieved by them and asking for dislosure (Some info on this on Form 27, 27a bumpf that also comes with summons/SoF ?).
Two considerations:
(1) Contact Court Office and ask for a SoF with more details including the actual speed alleged, or,
(2) Enter a NG plea and ask for disloure of evidence and when this received consider what your plea is going to be.....you can change to a Guilty if you want before Court proceedings and advising them so.
dvd
Go with what is said here.The SoF and summons will state that the speed limit is alleged to have been exceeded but no information as to how much? The driver will have an idea if this is so but to me it would seem sensible that he should be given some information as to the actual speed alleged as this could have an influence on a points and fine or life effecting disqualification.
At this stage there is no requirement for them enter into full disclosure of evidence role until such time as a Not Guitly plea is recieved by them and asking for dislosure (Some info on this on Form 27, 27a bumpf that also comes with summons/SoF ?).
Two considerations:
(1) Contact Court Office and ask for a SoF with more details including the actual speed alleged, or,
(2) Enter a NG plea and ask for disloure of evidence and when this received consider what your plea is going to be.....you can change to a Guilty if you want before Court proceedings and advising them so.
dvd
Otherwise you are admitting to something where the severity of the punishment for something you didn't do could be a stretch in prison.
You mentioned that the speed might be a fair chunk over the limit - maybe less than a ton you would get away with points, but if the **** somehow be plead guilty to and in court this becomes 140 then the effects on your driving and life in general will be drastic - and your rights? You chose to 'admit' the 'crime'.
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