Road Wars red light

[Parrot of Doom]

In an episode of Road Wars I've just downloaded, 2 officers are shown trying to head off a couple of shoplifters. They're in their car driving quickly through a town centre and approach a red car stopped at a traffic light (you can't see the lights, but you can see a yellow box, indicating its a light controlled junction). Its clearly on a red light as other vehicles are crossing the yellow box from the left side, and many pedestrians are crossing.

The driver sounds the siren a couple of times, and then holds the horn down for a good length of time. The voiceover says "but not everybody is co-operating".

These are traffic officers and they know full well that a normal motorist is not allowed to cross the stop line against a red light.

Could they be seen to be 'directing' him to do so from their vehicle, or do they actually have to get out and speak to the motorist in person to force him over the stop line?

Edited by Parrot of Doom on Tuesday 13th November 12:31

[sleep envy]

what the issue about going through a red with a camera when there's and emergency service behind you

is it 3 points?

[s2art]

sleep envy said:

what the issue about going through a red with a camera when there's and emergency service behind you

is it 3 points?

basically.

[Smiler.]

Where did you download that from PoD?

[Jules360]

sleep envy said:

what the issue about going through a red with a camera when there's and emergency service behind you

is it 3 points?

basically you will get the usual docs and fine through the post and then have to prove your innocence. Not always easy to do as you are a motorist and therefore guilty. I would refuse to cross the line on a red, no matter what was behind. Unfortunate, but a consequence of persecution.

Edited by Jules360 on Tuesday 13th November 15:49

[Parrot of Doom]

Smiler. said:

Where did you download that from PoD?

TheBox.bz

[FiveStar]

When there have been motorists already convicted for this exact offence then is it a surprise "not everyone wants to co-operate"?

Edited by FiveStar on Tuesday 13th November 13:11

[over_the_hill]

Jules360 said:

I would refuse to cross the line on a red, no matter what was behind. Unfortunate, but a consequence of persecution.

What he said.

FiveStar said:

When there have been motorists already convicted for this exact offence then is it a surprise "not everyone wants to co-operate"?

What he said.

[tigger1]

There's been discussion about this before - and although the advice was "you'd be found not guilty if you provide evidence in court" - in reality...you're better off not going through the red light. The PROFESSIONAL driver is trained to deal with heavy traffic conditions, and should be able to navigate their way around the problem.

(Sorry BiB...I believe *you* can help the ordinary MoP here)

[Parrot of Doom]

The question is though that I believe an officer in uniform can instruct you to cross the stop line - can that officer do this by flashing the blue lights, bipping the siren, and beeping the horn?

[10 Pence Short]

Parrot of Doom said:

The question is though that I believe an officer in uniform can instruct you to cross the stop line - can that officer do this by flashing the blue lights, bipping the siren, and beeping the horn?

Although an officer can 'direct' traffic, do they have mandate to require you to break the law, as in going through a red light.

If I felt it wasn't safe or I was likely to be prosecuted I certainly wouldn't run a red light on the instruction of a Police officer.

[SS2.]

10 Pence Short said:

Although an officer can 'direct' traffic, do they have mandate to require you to break the law, as in going through a red light.

Its a double edged sword..

A constable does not have the general discretion to direct other persons to disobey traffic regulations. That said, a person who refuses to comply with such instructions which were reasonably necessary for the protection of life and property could be regarded as obstructing an officer in the execution of his duty..

[Jules360]

SS2. said:

10 Pence Short said:

Although an officer can 'direct' traffic, do they have mandate to require you to break the law, as in going through a red light.

Its a double edged sword..

A constable does not have the general discretion to direct other persons to disobey traffic regulations. That said, a person who refuses to comply with such instructions which were reasonably necessary for the protection of life and property could be regarded as obstructing an officer in the execution of his duty..

Just claim it was unsafe to do so. That way he has to prove your guilt rather than you prove your innocence. At least this course of action affords you a fair trial.

[Terry Tibbs]

on look north west they had a feature with lancashire fire brigade and the made the point that they don't want you to break the red light etc - they will find away past you there is no need to break the law

[7db]

10 Pence Short said:

Although an officer can 'direct' traffic, do they have mandate to require you to break the law, as in going through a red light.

If you are directed through the red light, you are not breaking the law.

[Jules360]

7db said:

10 Pence Short said:

Although an officer can 'direct' traffic, do they have mandate to require you to break the law, as in going through a red light.

If you are directed through the red light, you are not breaking the law.

Tell that to a camera... or the system which send out the NIP.

[TTwiggy]

7db said:

10 Pence Short said:

Although an officer can 'direct' traffic, do they have mandate to require you to break the law, as in going through a red light.

If you are directed through the red light, you are not breaking the law.

facetious I know, but if a police officer directs you to punch someone in the face, are you guilty or not guilty of assault?...

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Jules360 said:

7db said:

10 Pence Short said:

Although an officer can 'direct' traffic, do they have mandate to require you to break the law, as in going through a red light.

If you are directed through the red light, you are not breaking the law.

Tell that to a camera... or the system which send out the NIP.

IIRC it is stunningly hard to prove innocence against a red light camera as well.

[10 Pence Short]

TTwiggy said:

7db said:

10 Pence Short said:

Although an officer can 'direct' traffic, do they have mandate to require you to break the law, as in going through a red light.

If you are directed through the red light, you are not breaking the law.

facetious I know, but if a police officer directs you to punch someone in the face, are you guilty or not guilty of assault?...

That was my thinking on it. I'd like to see the black and white legislation which allows an officer to exempt someone from certain lawful obligations yet not others.

[allaway]

10 Pence Short said:

TTwiggy said:

7db said:

10 Pence Short said:

Although an officer can 'direct' traffic, do they have mandate to require you to break the law, as in going through a red light.

If you are directed through the red light, you are not breaking the law.

facetious I know, but if a police officer directs you to punch someone in the face, are you guilty or not guilty of assault?...

That was my thinking on it. I'd like to see the black and white legislation which allows an officer to exempt someone from certain lawful obligations yet not others.

It never ceases to amaze me why drivers do not know how to deal with this situation. You simply move forward over the line but not across the junction and make space for the emergency vehicle. A red light camera will only photo if you cross the line and the jcn. www.gatso.nl clearly shows this.