No Insurance ANPR
Discussion
This is a recent press-release from the Ass. British Insurers. I have deleted the heading which was an awful pun.
Law-breaking motorists are feeling the heat, as record numbers of uninsured vehicles are being seized and crushed, according to figures released today at the ABI’s annual motor conference.
The use of automatic number plate recognition technology by the police has led to over 100,000 uninsured vehicles being seized by the police in roadside checks so far this year, compared to 78,000 during 2006. Of these, some 45,000 have been crushed.
Nick Starling, Director of General Insurance and Health of the Association of British Insurers, said:
“Uninsured drivers are a menace. They often drive unroadworthy vehicles, and the cost of compensating their victims adds an extra £30 a year to premiums paid by honest motorists. These figures show that the determination of the insurance industry, and the police to drive them from our roads is beginning to bear fruit. However we need to ensure that the penalties they face reflect the seriousness of this crime.”
Ashton West, Group Chief Executive of the Motor Insurers’ Bureau, said:
“The fight against uninsured drivers has now stepped up a gear, and we expect vehicle seizure numbers to increase over the coming months. Equally encouraging is the reduction in reported claims to the MIB, which were almost 4% down last year. On current trends the reduction is likely to be even greater by the end of 2007.”
It has to be said that 100,000 is not a particularly high percentage of those drivbing uninsured, but it's more than just a start. The comment about the penalty reflecting the crime is spot on as often the offenders are fined considerably less than the likely annual premium making it rather farcical.
Law-breaking motorists are feeling the heat, as record numbers of uninsured vehicles are being seized and crushed, according to figures released today at the ABI’s annual motor conference.
The use of automatic number plate recognition technology by the police has led to over 100,000 uninsured vehicles being seized by the police in roadside checks so far this year, compared to 78,000 during 2006. Of these, some 45,000 have been crushed.
Nick Starling, Director of General Insurance and Health of the Association of British Insurers, said:
“Uninsured drivers are a menace. They often drive unroadworthy vehicles, and the cost of compensating their victims adds an extra £30 a year to premiums paid by honest motorists. These figures show that the determination of the insurance industry, and the police to drive them from our roads is beginning to bear fruit. However we need to ensure that the penalties they face reflect the seriousness of this crime.”
Ashton West, Group Chief Executive of the Motor Insurers’ Bureau, said:
“The fight against uninsured drivers has now stepped up a gear, and we expect vehicle seizure numbers to increase over the coming months. Equally encouraging is the reduction in reported claims to the MIB, which were almost 4% down last year. On current trends the reduction is likely to be even greater by the end of 2007.”
It has to be said that 100,000 is not a particularly high percentage of those drivbing uninsured, but it's more than just a start. The comment about the penalty reflecting the crime is spot on as often the offenders are fined considerably less than the likely annual premium making it rather farcical.
I have to say a big pat on the back to the Government bod who thought to spend money on this and the BIB for implementing this.
I see this as the one true success in BIB'ng in the last few years, especially as one of the BIB's on their forum were talking about a high number of other offences found incidently on the owners of cars pulled.
I see this as the one true success in BIB'ng in the last few years, especially as one of the BIB's on their forum were talking about a high number of other offences found incidently on the owners of cars pulled.
More yet to come.
I heard a whisper that they are working on bringing in the provisions shortly of the Road Safety Act for continual registration of Insurance for vehicles - like Excise and Sorn.
If vehicle not recorded as Insured or declared off the road then along comes the crusher.........no car.
dvd
I heard a whisper that they are working on bringing in the provisions shortly of the Road Safety Act for continual registration of Insurance for vehicles - like Excise and Sorn.
If vehicle not recorded as Insured or declared off the road then along comes the crusher.........no car.
dvd
Gosh, it all sounds so impressive. However, my experience of this is slightly different. I was "taken roughly from behind" in a queue in the traffic. The guy did a runner, although I did get his registration. Despite being on a 54 plate, the car was uninsured. The driver was English, because he tried to assure me that no damage was done to my car before racing off. I reported him to the police on the day. It's now 10 months later, and there is no sign of the bastard having been pulled, despite driving without insurance.
So, as much as people try to assert the benefits of all this blind technology, I personally haven't seen any sign of it working for me in a genuine case where it should.
So, as much as people try to assert the benefits of all this blind technology, I personally haven't seen any sign of it working for me in a genuine case where it should.
I think this APR is a great thing, and like it when the lower echelons of society get their pride and joy crushed when they think they dont have to pay insurance, have a driving license etc like the rest of us.
I would be pretty peeved if I was the Lady on enforcers (BBC1 last night), who had her car taken off her, as it wasnt showing on ANPR - she had just renewed with another insurance provider, she was insured, but couldnt prove it at the side of the road. Hence nice Policeman saying I have to take your car off you, so you are left stranded at the side of the road with your children. Not good policing, especially when I am not aware they have to take the car, I thought they had to power to if they wanted to.
Then again, I did laugh at the 'Good Samaritan' who was passing and picked her up to take the stranded Family home, she was pulled around the corner for the same thing, she didnt have insurance, oh and a full license either. lol
I would be pretty peeved if I was the Lady on enforcers (BBC1 last night), who had her car taken off her, as it wasnt showing on ANPR - she had just renewed with another insurance provider, she was insured, but couldnt prove it at the side of the road. Hence nice Policeman saying I have to take your car off you, so you are left stranded at the side of the road with your children. Not good policing, especially when I am not aware they have to take the car, I thought they had to power to if they wanted to.
Then again, I did laugh at the 'Good Samaritan' who was passing and picked her up to take the stranded Family home, she was pulled around the corner for the same thing, she didnt have insurance, oh and a full license either. lol
Spokey said:
Gosh, it all sounds so impressive. However, my experience of this is slightly different. I was "taken roughly from behind" in a queue in the traffic. The guy did a runner, although I did get his registration. Despite being on a 54 plate, the car was uninsured. The driver was English, because he tried to assure me that no damage was done to my car before racing off. I reported him to the police on the day. It's now 10 months later, and there is no sign of the bastard having been pulled, despite driving without insurance.
So, as much as people try to assert the benefits of all this blind technology, I personally haven't seen any sign of it working for me in a genuine case where it should.
Is it me or does that stink of "it is only a priority if we can catch loads of people for minimal cost". E.g. in your case they would have to spend quite a bit of time (hence money) finding him so can't be bothered...So, as much as people try to assert the benefits of all this blind technology, I personally haven't seen any sign of it working for me in a genuine case where it should.
ANPR works, believe me.
I do lots of work for local government, linking in ANPR cameras and other such like (not enforcement related). When I was in Bradford last I noticed the controllers following a 3 series (new one) down the road. A mile later he was jumped on by 3 patrol cars and other assorted officers. The reason for the tug is he was a suspect in a "aggravated crime" earlier in the day and the car was pinged as being a priority.
For lesser offences (tax, insurance, mot) and so on, they get about 8,000 incidents logged a day. Yes, that's over 300 an hour. The sheer volume means they cant deal with every case effectively and simply prioritise on the more serious offences.
I do lots of work for local government, linking in ANPR cameras and other such like (not enforcement related). When I was in Bradford last I noticed the controllers following a 3 series (new one) down the road. A mile later he was jumped on by 3 patrol cars and other assorted officers. The reason for the tug is he was a suspect in a "aggravated crime" earlier in the day and the car was pinged as being a priority.
For lesser offences (tax, insurance, mot) and so on, they get about 8,000 incidents logged a day. Yes, that's over 300 an hour. The sheer volume means they cant deal with every case effectively and simply prioritise on the more serious offences.
Trax said:
I think this APR is a great thing, and like it when the lower echelons of society get their pride and joy crushed when they think they dont have to pay insurance, have a driving license etc like the rest of us.
I would be pretty peeved if I was the Lady on enforcers (BBC1 last night), who had her car taken off her, as it wasnt showing on ANPR - she had just renewed with another insurance provider, she was insured, but couldnt prove it at the side of the road. Hence nice Policeman saying I have to take your car off you, so you are left stranded at the side of the road with your children. Not good policing, especially when I am not aware they have to take the car, I thought they had to power to if they wanted to.
Then again, I did laugh at the 'Good Samaritan' who was passing and picked her up to take the stranded Family home, she was pulled around the corner for the same thing, she didnt have insurance, oh and a full license either. lol
I think this is a concern for us all. As with "we all want to see people driving within the 30 limit" but there are very inappropriate 30 limits where camera resource is concentrated, we all want to see uninsured drivers off the road but the focus will be on the otherwise-law abiding.I would be pretty peeved if I was the Lady on enforcers (BBC1 last night), who had her car taken off her, as it wasnt showing on ANPR - she had just renewed with another insurance provider, she was insured, but couldnt prove it at the side of the road. Hence nice Policeman saying I have to take your car off you, so you are left stranded at the side of the road with your children. Not good policing, especially when I am not aware they have to take the car, I thought they had to power to if they wanted to.
Then again, I did laugh at the 'Good Samaritan' who was passing and picked her up to take the stranded Family home, she was pulled around the corner for the same thing, she didnt have insurance, oh and a full license either. lol
What I'm trying to say is that it's far easier to catch someone who accidentally forgot to renew or the database didn't get updated properly for some reason, than it is to catch the scrote in a banger of no fixed abode or of "deepest council estate, Essex". Who are the most dangerous? The latter, but the soft targets are cheaper, easier and still meet the crime clearup requirements.
Of course even the "accidentally forgot" people are a risk to you if they run into you, but I suggest that they're likely to be honourable enough to try to do the right thing. A better approach might be for insurers to automatically renew unless you say no, in order to prevent the "forgot" situation.
Hmmm. So with an increasing amount of fixed position cameras available linked to ANPR systems. How long is it before some bright spark in the goverment decides to bring back road charging? After all the investment in the systems and technology has already been made in the name of law and order. It may help reduce the number of uninsured cars but its also being used to track people. Its a further step towards George Orwells Big brother is watching you state.
Peter Ward said:
A better approach might be for insurers to automatically renew unless you say no, in order to prevent the "forgot" situation.
Some of them do. I got caught out by this when I renewed with a different company, my old insurer's renewal letter had a panel on it that I hadn't read (What with it being a banner off to the side
) explaining that they'd renew automatically if they didn't hear from me. I had a fight to get my money back.The problem comes if people change insurers, particularly at the last minute.
plasticpig said:
Hmmm. So with an increasing amount of fixed position cameras available linked to ANPR systems. How long is it before some bright spark in the goverment decides to bring back road charging? After all the investment in the systems and technology has already been made in the name of law and order. It may help reduce the number of uninsured cars but its also being used to track people. Its a further step towards George Orwells Big brother is watching you state.
That's not as bacofoil hat as it may seem according to a magistrate I was speaking with recently.Six Fiend said:
plasticpig said:
Hmmm. So with an increasing amount of fixed position cameras available linked to ANPR systems. How long is it before some bright spark in the goverment decides to bring back road charging? After all the investment in the systems and technology has already been made in the name of law and order. It may help reduce the number of uninsured cars but its also being used to track people. Its a further step towards George Orwells Big brother is watching you state.
That's not as bacofoil hat as it may seem according to a magistrate I was speaking with recently.I work in the industry and the number of uninsured cars is a real problem, but it would appear that the criminals are now changing tack by simply cloning plates rather than using an unlicensed car.
The cloning problem appears to be out of control and the various authorities are struggling with that one. The best advice I can give anyone is never ever publish your numberplate details anywhere and if you think a car is unisured check it out on here:
http://www.askmid.com/askmid.aspx
Or if you think it is uninsured check here:
http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/
If you think it's not your problem then you are clearly content to hand over the £40 it's costing each and everyone of us.
The cloning problem appears to be out of control and the various authorities are struggling with that one. The best advice I can give anyone is never ever publish your numberplate details anywhere and if you think a car is unisured check it out on here:
http://www.askmid.com/askmid.aspx
Or if you think it is uninsured check here:
http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/
If you think it's not your problem then you are clearly content to hand over the £40 it's costing each and everyone of us.
My only concern is the accuracy of the MID listings.
I thought that I would check out all our family's cars and they are all OK except for my 1964 Mini-Cooper 'S' which is on the data-base as insured, but has the vehicle as a 'Morris 109 V8' (whatever that is). I would hate to be 'pulled' for appearing to be driving a different type of vehicle from that insured as I don't carry the ins. cert. or the V5 with me. Clearly there is a risk of this if I now use it before it's changed.
I thought that I would check out all our family's cars and they are all OK except for my 1964 Mini-Cooper 'S' which is on the data-base as insured, but has the vehicle as a 'Morris 109 V8' (whatever that is). I would hate to be 'pulled' for appearing to be driving a different type of vehicle from that insured as I don't carry the ins. cert. or the V5 with me. Clearly there is a risk of this if I now use it before it's changed.
Trax said:
I would be pretty peeved if I was the Lady on enforcers (BBC1 last night), who had her car taken off her, as it wasnt showing on ANPR - she had just renewed with another insurance provider, she was insured, but couldnt prove it at the side of the road.
I agree that is harsh. The force I work for only seize vehicles at the side of the road if either the driver admits they are uninsured (surprisingly often they do) or we are able to speak to the insurer they claim they are with and find out for sure that they are not insured with them. If neither is the case, then a producer is issued. I think this is the fair way of doing it.mickken said:
When are we going to pass a law that gives us the authority to crush cars with stolen plates on them??
We already have the power to seize a vehicle with stolen plates as evidence. Some might argue we should only take the plates, but I would always say that the only purpose for having stolen plates is to commit offences, and we can take a vehicle if we suspect it is used in crime. We can then ask the court to order forfeiture of the vehicle if it gets that far.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff